Stepping up to Radical Change, with Kim Doyal on the Personal Branding Entrepreneur Show

What made you happy in business before might not make you happy now, being open to radical change in your business is essential to be able to level things up significantly. This week, my guest is Kim Doyle. She's going to share her business, her radical changes and the power of consistent connexion through email marketing. It's not about the list. It's about the people. Hi there. And welcome back to Amplify the Digital Marketing Entrepreneur podcast. I'm Bob Gentle. And every week I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. If you're new to the show. Take a second right now to subscribe so you don't miss new episodes and you can grab some old ones when you're done with this one. Don't forget as well, you can join my Facebook community. Just visit, amplify me dot com forward, slash insiders and you'll be taken right there. So welcome along. And let's meet Kim. So this week, I'm thrilled to welcome Kim Doyle to the show. Kim, you did a lot of different things and I want to get into lots of it. But for the listener that doesn't know who you are, what you do remember, just want to tell us a little bit about what your world looks like, who you are, where you are, the kind of work you do. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks again for having me. Bob, I. So I totally stole this from Prince, but I, I always say I'm formerly known as the WordPress chick. That was my brand for the first 10 years. I pivoted to my personal brand as three years ago now and I was really obsessed at the time. I still am obviously. But content marketing, digital marketing, I just I love marketing online, to be honest with you. And launched a content creators planner, the physical planner, actually in two years ago with a business partner, Jody Hirsch, who is amazing and so am I. You know, it's like I started podcasting crazy. It'll be eight years, you know. So content marketing, digital marketing. My latest obsession is newsletters and email marketing. I got into I wouldn't say I got into, but I focussed on copywriting. I've started really digging into it a couple of years ago, even though it's like it's been around. You've heard it, everybody knows it's important. I just never saw myself as a copywriter. But there is something so magical when you understand it and the fact that you can change a sentence and increase sales or get opens or connect with people, it's phenomenal to me. So so my business today, it's interesting. So I got the two brands. We've got an e-commerce brand with the content planner and some training. We're working on version two and doing a book launch. And for my brand, it's funny because I actually felt like I was competing with myself. So I got a ton of clarity recently and I literally feel like a kid in a candy store like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited again is I'm going to focus on email marketing and newsletters under my personal brand, Kim Doyle. So that kind of brings me up to speed. I've got a Facebook group on content marketing, so it's I don't know. And I'm sort of I would say I'm going to date myself here, but I'm like a permanent Pollyanna. I'm an optimist. I love life, you know, and I I live by the motto that if it's not fun, I'm not doing it. So my business has to be fun for me. You see what I'm like? I'm in Boise, Idaho, right now. I'm sorry. You said, where are you? All right. And it seems like a very long time ago. But you were a chick then. Yep. And for the listener who doesn't know, you've written a book with a super nerdy title called WordPress and the Genesis Framework for Beginners. Get out for beginners people. It's so outdated. It's so far from where you are right now. But this is really cool because what a lot of people don't understand is when you do focus on building your personal brand, which the optic was really just an extension of, was it comes with you. It travels with you. And I've known about you for a long time, been aware of your journey, and it has points of excitement all the way along. So what I'm into and what you're into, there's been a parallel journey there and there's probably no accident. I'm kind of rambling a little bit now, but I read all the time. Bob, I can follow you. I would really love to know about your journey to take from Wiecek. What's that been like sort of to decide to show up online because that's a hard decision in itself and then step out as Kim Doyle, what's your sort of personal journey looked like? OK, I will try to keep this content so I don't go too sideways. So I started my business in 2008. I was widowed. I lost my husband in a car accident in 2003. I was thirty two. Her kids were supposed to thank you. And, you know, it's one of those things that you just think happens to other people truly. And, you know, life was really good at the time. I had a career I loved. I was working for a big retailer in the United States and its great company. I was a training manager and kind of flying around and stuff. But when I lost my husband, you know, I kept working full time. But I mean, it's insane. Retail's difficult to begin with, let alone my kids were little. And it was like my life was just non-stop for a long time. And, you know, I always had this bent, Bob, like I always knew there was something else I was supposed to do with my life. And like I had opened a physical scrapbook store, a retail store in 1998. So I had done that. I had done some contact contract recruiting for a major retailer where I would, you know, go and recruit other managers for them. I tried a couple other business things, but I just knew there was something else I was supposed to do with my life. And I so I've always been an audio audio file, I think is the word, if I want to say like I love audio. When I was commuting in the Bay Area, San Francisco. Right. Like there was a point where I was a district manager for another company. I was listening to cassette tapes all the time in the car and. Started with like Tony Robbins worked my way through all those, I'm so dating myself, but Ziggler, Dennis Whitely and Brian Tracy and then found Wayne Dyer, who just completely put me sort of on a more spiritual trajectory. I love the business stuff, too. But, you know, my point is that I have been listening to I don't know if you're familiar with Mark Victor Hansen, Mark Victor Hansen and Jack Canfield did the Chicken Soup for the Soul series books huge in the United States. They're both big speakers and whatnot. So I was also a speech major in college for a while. I gave a speech at my high school graduations, like clearly Kim likes to be on stage. And so I was listening to this CD set of his and it was called Build Your Mega Speaking Empire, and it was all recorded from a live event. So there was like 10 or 12 CDs. And one of the CDs happened to be one of the speakers who was an Internet marketer. And it just piqued my interest. And here's the crazy thing, Bob. I was so not technical. Like my husband had been programming an eighth grade, you know, and for me, I was like, how do you attach something to an email? Like, I was like email and solitaire on the computer that was still in my world and it just piqued my interest. And then fast-Forward to like 2006, I had left retail, I had gotten into real estate and stuff. All of that is just too dry for me, at least like I'd I'd love to be a real estate investor. But in terms of like selling real estate, not my cup of tea, but 2006, I went to this event in San Francisco. It was called the Wealth Expo. This was pre real estate crashing everywhere and in the United States. And but it was here's the funny thing. The keynote speakers were Tony Robbins, Robert Kiyosaki and Donald Trump will just laugh about it. But, you know, you go to a lot of events, have these offshoot breakout sessions. And so I went to this other workshop and it was another one on Internet marketing. I'm like, there is something here. I know that there's something here. And so I actually had a settlement from something around my husband's death. And so, you know, I'll tell you, the one nice thing about nice thing is there's a weird way to phrase it, but when you're going through grief and pain and all of that, like people kind of leave you alone. So I was like, I'm doing this. I'm going all in. I had a little bit of a cushion and I'm like, I'm going to figure this out. And so in 2008, I started my business. I jumped in with it was a social media course taught by someone from Stompanato at the time, if you remember that. And that's when I jumped in. And I mean, I literally knew nothing, but I just made a commitment to myself. Oh, and here's the funny thing, Bob. I had hired the coach that I had listened to on that Mark, Victor Hansen CD set. And I'm not going to give his name because it was a little bit whatever. But, you know, you learn. And it was like, I have such obsession with learning. I love to learn stuff. You know, I spent ten years in the book industry. So I'm so I just there's something that excites me about it all. And I wasn't totally sure when I launched my business, to be honest with you, the word press chick, I just ended up someone's like, oh, you should use WordPress to build a site. And then I grabbed the domain. You know, ignorance is complete bliss. They actually it was about three years into the journey that WordPress was like, by the way, you can't use WordPress in New York, hence the WP. But, you know, it's just I literally just put one foot in front of the other. I really thought when I launched I was going to be an information marketing millionaire. I had no desire to learn how to do websites or anything, but it just kind of fell into place. And about five years into doing it, I ended up like I was doing some coaching. I had an outsourcing company because I looked for coders and developers and then the people that coached with me wanted developers and designers. But I also that was never something I wanted to do either, you know? But I just you need to pay the bill. So I just kept going. And in 2013, I'm like, I want to have some more fun. And that was the only reason I launched the podcast. I loved listening to them. I knew the format I wanted. And it was without a doubt the best thing I did for my business relationships, connexions, friendships, content I did it opened my mind. And, you know, and then as the years progressed, I just knew I didn't want to be doing websites. I felt I fell in love with writing because the podcast, which might sound strange to people, but I do. And I'll do a solo show and then I do an interview and a solo show. But because of the way I talk, like I go off on site tangents, I do make sure that I write my show notes out. I don't ever read them, but I'm like, I need to keep myself on track. And it was amazing because, you know, I come up with all these little hashtags. One of them is everything is content. And I just found that the more honest and vulnerable and and sharing of the journey that I did, the more I connected with people, the more it resonated with people. Because if you were to meet me in person, Bob, which if you ever show up Costa Rica down the road, you're more than welcome to just meet me in person. I'm me online. It's just me. And so it was like this huge light bulb went out that, you know, when people think about creating content and building businesses online, everything has to be stressed. Based and CEO and keyword research, all that stuff is super valuable, but you don't know what you don't know, which was sort of my ignorance is bliss. And I simply kept moving forward. And when I decided to pivot from the WordPress check, I'm trying to fast forward a little bit. You know, I was going to I was partnering with a friend on a SAS product called Lead Service, which is very much like convert box has a lot of that, but lead surveys and we're still friends. But it was like it took us a while to get it to fruition. And it was like, you know, he had some health stuff. I had some personal stuff going on. And so we literally shut it down like three months after he opened it. But I trust I just trusted it. In the meantime, I had started content creation, the Facebook group and whatnot. But the decision to go to the personal brand was because I knew for myself I kind of needed to draw the line in the sand or, you know, that that story of burning the boats, you know the two. Yeah. And I'm going to probably be OK right now. So I'm like, I need to burn the boats. I need to cut this. And I had recurring revenue from the outsourcing company. I literally let all the developers and designers work directly with the customers. You guys go have at it, do what you want to do. I just knew for myself that I needed to do it, otherwise it was never going to happen. And, you know, it was just the last few years have been crazy because even when I decided to go to Kim Doyle, I wasn't totally sure what direction I was going to go. And I mean, I knew I was going to be in the digital marketing, online marketing. And the truth is, focussing on content marketing made sense because I'd been creating content, but it still felt a little bit ambiguous. And then this idea for the content creators planner came out of me playing around with a bullet journal and testing, sharing stuff on social. I'm like, oh my gosh, there is this huge world of pen and paper journal enthusiasts still. And like I've always been a pen and paper, I obviously had a scrapbook store. I like stuff like that. So, you know, it was such a divine path, for lack of a better word that I really believe just keep putting one foot in from the other. I think you get clarity through the doing people sitting there like they want this divine hit to come to them in this idea. And they and they try to create or copy stuff. But I'm like, you're not going to figure it out until you do it and you get in there. You know, it was just it's been a journey, really. The plane was two years old. And, you know, through the last few years, I mean, my son is now 20, but high school with him was hell. And and it's tough to keep your business going when your personal life is turned upside down. And then my mom passed away unexpectedly in twenty only seventy one, destroyed my world for a long time. That's a tough year for it to happen as well. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it was just, you know, so and my intention, it was like, oh, my kids were out of the house then and the plan was, I'm getting out of California. And again, I'm not anti California, but we'll just leave that there. I just knew. And so then I went and stayed with my dad for about eight months. And then I was like, it's time. Like, I need this new chapter. So it's been a huge personal journey the last few years to get to where I am today. And I think there's something about it. I don't know how you feel about this. I don't know how old you are. I'm guessing we're similar ages. But as you get older, you just you trust yourself a little bit more. And like when my mom passed away, I knew that I needed to step back and I could have cared less about marketing. I really could have cared less. And I and I honoured that. Having gone through the grief with my husband when I was much younger and a very different person, I was so angry. I was really, really angry and about the loss. And I just kept going and kept going. And I gave myself the space to be sad about my mom. And so which is how I think I got here today and it's also my beliefs and whatnot. But, you know, the business journey and the personal brand, I wish I could tell you that I was dialled in strategy from day one. It was just desire, hard work, tenacity and attention. So I think that brings us up to speed today. But, you know, it's it's been a wild journey, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'll tell you that much. What I really like about that is a lot of people listening. They do think everything needs to be figured out before you take action, the before you're going to sort of invest of yourself, start showing up online or spend any money. You have to have the whole plan figured out, has to be no room for error and it's just never going to happen. I think that held me back for years. And I think hearing from someone like you that there's this calling off from the distance and you just need to start walking and it'll be OK. Yeah, it's really important for people to hear. And I think I was on another thing that I love and my own story. There's parallels that in my own business there came a point where I knew I was done with it. And yeah, you could sell it. Yeah, you could do lots of different things. But there's something about a Viking. That just makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it feels clean, doesn't it? Yeah, I love that. So we are where we are now and I'm somebody that struggles to use body language in the podcast. But your newsletter has an awesome name. So tell us what your letters is and I'll tell you. Well, it's and I'm going to use its hashtag F the Hustle. And, you know, it's funny. Bob is like, yeah, I know. Oh, yeah. Well, it is literally the letter F, right? I mean, it's OK. So it is a muscle, but it's like f the hustle and where that came from, it's funny because again, I think when people allow themselves, I think we do such a disservice as human beings by not being present and enjoying the journey. And what there's there's there's magical thing when you choose to be conscious and say to yourself, I'm going to pay attention. And things so shifted for me, like, I always just was like, I'm going have fun and whatever. But there's plenty of imposter syndrome. There's plenty of fear. What are people going to think? But when you focus on the mastery of the craft and really getting good at it and then continuing to show up, it's fun. So at the hustle I had done, I was it started another podcast with a friend, Jonquières Perez, who was big in the WordPress space for a while, and he's kind of doing offline stuff now. But it was called the Hustle Free podcast, and we were going to do a newsletter attached to it. It's like a physical newsletter. But so we came up with that term. I came up with it like in 2016, because I'm tired of the hustle culture. You know, there's a difference between working hard and working smart. And there are plenty of times where I'm like, oh, that was a 10 hour day. Or I work at my desk for six or seven hours and I'm on my laptop at night. And then there's times, Baba, I'm like, I'm not feeling it today and I'm not going to kidnap at one o'clock. I get to do that. And it it just makes people think if they just work hard, you know, and that that life is worth sacrificing. And I think if we've learnt nothing with 20/20 that we just got through is, you know, life is short, you don't take it for granted. So I think you can build a quality business and connect with people. But it's like it's and I'm so I'm not one to bash anybody. But I'm I don't know about you. I'm tired of the marketing. I'm tired of the same gurus. And there's plenty of them that are decent human beings. And I'm not judging who they are or what they want. I don't care if you want a Lamborghini or a Prius, just be a decent human being. But the f the hustle, I was like, this should be fun. You're not going to create something phenomenal if you don't enjoy the journey and you don't get to spend time with the people you care about. I mean, I like as an example, you know, I was very close to my parents. I mean, I still am to my dad, but my mom I mean, we talked all the time. And, you know, you get to a point where, like, any time they had moved about two hours away from where it was, but it was like they'd come down and it was like I stopped what I was doing to spend time with my mom all the time. And I'm so grateful I did. And so this hustle culture, it's asinine. And it's it's this is probably a strong word for it, but it feels almost predatory. And that totally just came to me. I'm going to trust it, but it feels almost predatory that there is this idea that if you just, you know, crush it, kill it, work your arse off, that you're going to make it. That's simply not the case. I mean, when I I'm sure you've heard this, the whole, you know, build the list and I know I'm going way off script here, but, you know, Bill the list, bill the list, the money, unless there's absolute truth to that. I wish I had done it sooner, but I wish someone had said the best thing you can do to build a business is to get really good at communicating, get really, really good at writing and learning how to connect with people. And I'm not saying video or podcasting won't do that as well, but there's a writing element included in that to be able to give the message. So, you know, the EFF the hustle, it's funny because it was it was just like a hashtag and a name. And I fell in love with newsletter's over the last year, which they've kind of made a comeback. I'm calling it sort of Newsletter's 2.0. It's not the Internet marketing newsletter that used to be like, oh, here's what a client said about me. Here's how awesome I am. And here's how you can work with me. Right. Do you remember those? The easy ones. And it's not like that anymore. And with the content creators, panner, we launched a newsletter last summer called Creativity Published, and I knew I wanted to do one for me. And it was it was crazy. So I went into Dropbox one day and I was looking at an old Kim Doyel dotcom folder from site stuff. And I saw the at the Hustle. I'm like, that's it. It just hit me. I was like, that's the newsletter. That is the friggin newsletter. And I'm going to run with this. And it is honestly one of the most fun things I'm doing today. You see, I've been on your mailing list since 2015. I just checked while you were speaking, and I've had over 500 emails from you. It's and there's very few people get to stay on my list. Your emails are very engaging, and especially over the last year, I've noticed a. Clear change where you seem to have found a joy in that level of communicating, it's just really, really cool. I'm really enjoying it. Thank you. I literally have a blast doing the newsletter and the solo broadcast emails. It is one of the most fun things I do. Now, as you said, you and I are a similar age and a lot of people our age possibly think it's too late to start now. And I'm curious to know what your perspective is on that, because a lot of people, they might think they're too old, they're too ugly, they're too weird, they're too stupid. There's lots of things that you might be to something that you're using as a reason to not start building your personal brand, not start sort of building this sort of for what it might be a second career. What's your perspective on that? What would you say to anybody that was in front of you and was was coming up with stupid objections like that? A couple of things come to mind, and it's trite, you know, but you're never too old. I mean, if you look at I don't know if you remember this was an email I sent probably two months ago. And the subject line was she was 60. And I was talking about Louise Hay, who, if she's passed away since in her 90s, but the founder of Hay House Publishing, which is a huge publisher in the United States, they publish a lot of kind of spiritual like Wayne Dyer and Marianne Williamson and like huge, right? I mean, it's a it's a hundred million dollar a year company. A million. It's huge. Anyways, so, Louise, his story is really neat. She started Hayhurst Publishing at 60 in 1984. There was no social media. You know, there was no Google, like none of the stuff that it has never been easier to start a business today. And my point in that email was, A, you are never too old. And there's that litany. Right? We've all heard that list of, you know, Colonel Sanders who started Kentucky Fried Chicken was 64 or something. You know, Vera Wang didn't design her first gown till she was 40 or like, you know, so you could go through this huge list. So there's plenty of people and they didn't have the advantages that we had today. And one thing, my podcast episode this week was about inspiration in unexpected places. This new obsession of mine with newsletter's has set me down an entirely new path of people to listen to, to follow, to read. And it was such a kind of a brick upside the head moment that reminded myself that we're in a global economy. There are so many people, there are millions and millions of people on the planet that you can do business with and serve. And we end up kind of with blinders on when we stay in our niche or our market. And I'm specifically referring to the Internet marketing. Right. So we've got all these gurus, these people, and they're fantastic. But when you step outside of that and you just serve, it's amazing. And the point is the world needs new voices. We're tired of the same old, same old. I think, you know, 20/20 broke the planet. Let's just go say that. And things that we that's the collective we. Right. Thought we're working. It's it's been proven that they're not education. The United States, you know, there's so many different things that we could go on and on and about like. And so why not? I mean, what else are you going to do? Like, truly like I was saying and I'm going to give you a quick little story, if you don't mind, too. So the therapist that I found when I lost my husband has become this like life mentor for me. And she is a huge inspiration. She's a business owner, too. She's retired. She literally still talks to me, though, and my inspiration for moving to Costa Rica with her, she has just sold her third property in Costa Rica. And so she's got, you know, twenty years on me or whatever. And we were talking about I mean, she's been on all of these journeys with me. And so at this stage in my life, you know, it's like especially when you work for yourself, it's maybe you've got some catching up to do or whatever. And so we've been doing work on sort of wealth building. Right. And and reframing of things and all of this stuff. And she told me she's like, Kim, I don't have anything at fifty said you're never too old. And she literally just sold a property on the beach for one point two million dollars because they bought a different property down the road and has property in California with her husband. So it's like. Oh, and has killed it in the stock market, so it's kind of like, you know, it's so invaluable to step outside of. Of your comfort zone or your circles more than anything? I mean, seriously, what what do you think would happen if somebody Googled starting a business over 50, or is it too late to start a business? I mean, you will find story after story after story. And the truth is, you know, that acronym for fear, false evidence appearing real, they're all perceptions. And, you know, like talking about this move to Costa Rica, one of my best friends who, you know, so many of my friends still don't know what I do for 13 years. But she had actually worked with me and we were texting yesterday and she said, are you going to go visit before you move? And I'm like, no, y you know, like it's a beach. And I there's connexions. There's tons of I'm like, why would I do that? I want to give myself I'm just open. And I had to remind myself that some people, a lot of people may be like, what are you doing? Like Ah oh my God, I could never do that. Or but isn't it going to be hard. You're going to miss this or this. There's all these different perceptions and opinions that people are going to have. But I'm at a stage in my life and this is the beauty, I think, of starting a business. When you're older, trust yourself, trust your experience. You've been through enough. I've been we've all had our own quote unquote shit show. Right. Of none of us escape this life without trauma, tragedy, challenge, struggle, strife. We don't. And DJ's use that. If I've learnt nothing, it's like, OK, I'm in a bad mood or this went sideways. It's like I can look back enough times to know that. Of course. Corrected I made it through. I got to the other side. It's like this is nothing, you know, so do it. Feel the fear and do it anyway. I think that's a book by their Jeffares or something. If it's not, you should do it. I want I want to talk revenue streams, but before I do, I want to just take a quick leap back to the picnic days where back then a lot of your revenue would have been service revenue. You could get paid for doing stuff or you could pay for other people doing stuff. What did the the journey away from service revenue look like? Because you need income so that something had to happen there? Yeah, well, so I had some reker I had at the time when I cut the cord. I did have and this is complete transparency revenue through like Social Security benefits for my kids because my husband passed away until they were eighteen. So it's had a little bit of a cushion there. But it wasn't it was kind of like here and there because it's funny. Like if you were to go to my website, which is not that the website's changing, but now that I've made this clear delineation of what I'm focussing on, it's going to be much more obvious. So I've done coaching and then the planner, like we killed it with ads the first part of last year, and then it was just this weird downward spiral. So we're which I mean, it was great. I mean, we did, you know, the the first when we scaled our ads, it was you know, we were spending over a thousand dollars a day on ads and doubling our return. And so, you know, it went really well. And it was a great reminder about, you know, multiple traffic streams and whatnot. But so income for me today, because we're currently not paying ourselves what the planner. However, we're still running ads and we're focussing more on Legian and traffic because we make money on the back end with email. We know how to do that. And, you know, I'm very clear that we need something higher priced. So we're working on, you know, a content promotion course and we have it. And here's the crazy thing about where we're going to launch a membership. It just didn't feel right. You know, I'm somebody I want a lot of white space in my life. I truly need to know that I'm not on the phone for six hours a day, three or four days a week. I would lose my mind. And I don't feel like podcast interviews are fun. That's different. But even with coaching, you know, I if I do coaching, I don't have any one to one coaching clients right now, but I'll do a one off session. And and I chose that because I'm like, go do the work and then come back like I don't want to talk to you every week if you're not doing the work, to be honest with you. Like I could go create a blog post for myself as opposed to being on the phone. If you're not doing the work, I don't want to get paid that way. So we're not paying ourself the planner. I have a couple clients that I'm working with, but here's the fun thing. The client work I'm doing, it's all on brand building through a newsletter, building an audience with that, because I just I see I truly think we're going to see newsletters become a standard piece of content, like a podcast, like a blog, like video or whatever. And it's I don't know if you've experienced this with podcasting, but there's always room for more. There's always room for more because a lot of people quit. When they don't get results, they give up too soon, you know, and I never attached a need for income for my podcast. I literally did because I wanted to have more fun with it. So I've got some private clients that I'm working with to to build the newsletter brand. And so what's coming for me more is somebody some workshops on email marketing and newsletters. And here's the fun part, is that their sponsorship opportunities now, because I felt an audience, so till it's done, I'm not going to say anything. But I had a company and it was somebody I'd interviewed from the WordPress base who reached out. I mean, we had an interview, God, years ago, and they got back in touch with like, hey, you know, and they've taken on funding and whatnot. And he said, I was wondering, there's an opportunity to collaborate. And I'm like, sure, it's like I'm going to connect you with this person. She's like, you have any sponsorships available? I'm like, well, yes, I do. And it was it's for the newsletter and the podcast where they get visibility. I because the data with email, you can track it so well. So it kind of comes from all these different places, to be honest with you. So I've got client work and last summer I launched a course, but I'm not, you know, this like until something feels super right in my body, like I love that course. But this, like the direction I'm going with email newsletters now feels so just divine, like this is what it's supposed to be. And I'm even considering and I'd love your thoughts on this. The other the other newsletter I was telling you about, that's not quite ready, but I was like, maybe I'll do a build in public. I've never done anything like that. I share the journey, but almost episodic, like, OK, so this is what happened last week when we launched this. This is what happened, you know, kind of sharing like kind of back to Pat Flynn in the early days. Exactly. Exactly. You know, and so it's it's just there's there's something really fun. And I've done a lot of that was how I grew. The word pressure-cooker literally was just like, well, that's what I'm doing. And so I try and this is what it look like. And, you know, so the revenue streams are there's they're coming from different places right now. I will tell you this. It is absolutely my commitment, though, when I decide to move out of the country, which is a big step in and of itself. I'm like, it's I'm at a point where I'm like, I want the recurring revenue that gives me the freedom to not be like where stuff coming from. And I've got some recurring revenue with clients right now. But it it's just I so believe in the multiple streams of income and I like easy money and it's who doesn't. Right. But I mean like sponsorship. I was going to do the newsletter of the podcast anyway. That's gold. And if I can make sure that it provides value and puts, you know, someone's product in front of the right audience, how could you not do that or have you seen conversion? I yeah. Yeah. Oh. Oh my God. I'm so impressed with this. It's an eye writing tool for the listeners. And so they just released their partner programme. I got accepted. I'm like, oh, I just because I use it, that's how I treat affiliate marketing is like if it's something I use, can I share it and show it? And so I'm committed to kind of scaling that. So I want to have I like having the different pieces. And then obviously with the planner, you know, we are it seems we can scale the ads back up. I think with the version two of the plan that we're working on, we'll do it like a big launch and whatnot with that. And we'll combine it with a couple of courses. So it's more of a bundle, you know, so it comes from different places. I think part of my personality is like, I don't want just to be like, OK, I'm going to launch a membership and that's all I'm going to do and I'm just going to scale that. It's kind of not how I'm wired. So it's finding the recurring revenue that works with who I am and how I move to the world as well as being able to serve my audience. I'm just a nut, Bob. Like, I swear when somebody tells me I have to do something, I go into resistance and all the sudden I'm pissy about it. If I can help somebody for free and nobody's making me, it's like a completely different story. It's a goofiest thing. But I do need to make money. Yeah. Sadly, it's one of those realities in life that you do have to make money. But if you can make money doing something you love for people you love, doing something, they really enjoy it, that's a nice place to be. And I think that's kind of what you're doing, especially with something like the planner. I have bought the planner and it's an awesome to. So for anybody who doesn't know what the content creators planner is, what's the content creators? Puttock So the content creators planner. It is a physical planner or you can get the PDF or we have a trailer version, but it is a content strategy framework in essence. And we thought, look, we want people to start thinking of content based on their business goals. And so it literally there's like seven kind of steps, so to speak. But you start with business goals. You plan out how you want to. And I'm being really short here. But, you know, what are your goals? What's the content? You create support at what's called the action. What's the end goal? What are you going to sell? And then it's like, OK, what's the content that I can create to support that? You grow a little bit deeper with primary content, micro content. Here's a monthly calendar and then here's a weekly calendar. And so, you know, as the brand is evolved, you know, my business partner Jody got she is truly an essentialist and she's really helped. She's so funny. When I said something like I said some about patients one day and she was like, is that Kim Doyle saying that because I'm so ready, fire aim truly? Like, I just pull the trigger on stuff and I see what happens, which is also why I like doing teaching and stuff live, because you get the feedback. I'm like, let's do it live, do a paid workshop, let's get the feedback, find out the questions. You also get questions and comments that you can use for copy. Because it's it's the language of your customer, but so then taking that so the planner, it was just an idea truly, Bob, I was like every time I went to plan something out, I found myself going back to pen and paper. I love tech, but I'm like, it's just the way my brain works. And it blew up and we have a master class with it. So, yeah, that's the content creators planner. And we create a newsletter and original content every single week. And it's nice with two of us because we rotate, you know, original post newsletter. And so now it's like our next step. This sort of version two that's coming out is I think the brand voice has been established more of, look, we want you to create better content, but less of it get more leverage out of what you're doing. So that is kind of where we're coming from. And we'll be doing a content promotion course where, look, we want you to take one piece of content and spend 30 days promoting the bucket out of it and see what happens, see where you get traction with things. I love the idea because for so many people, social media in particular, it's just like a hamster wheel of pain. They feel the need to maybe write a blog post a week and do a YouTube video. And then they've got all the social media content to create and then they have to grab some selfies and all they need to quote. And I must have some client testimonials. And before you know it, there's two or three days of your week gone. You haven't done any work, have made any money. So repurposing is the best way. Repurposing with a with a lot of creativity, I should say, is the best way to get a lot of mileage out. There was a quote I saw yesterday. I'm not a big guy, but this was a good one. It was my goal is no longer to get more done, but rather to have less to do. And I think that's something your planner really, really helps with. Thank you. I, I totally agree and I love that quote, too. I mean, the whole thing with content is, you know, I like to create content so it never like I have fun when I can just, you know, spend four hours writing, recording, editing, publishing a podcast. Like it's just fun for me, although the editing needs to be handed off again. It's been a while since I've had an editor, but it's so I get it for businesses and entrepreneurs who they're like, look, this isn't my business, but I have to. It's the marketing of their business and I think people overthink it. This is where my everything is content. Going back to that is, you know, create the stuff that you enjoy doing, pick a couple platforms and do it well. And then when you feel that that's a process and you can hand it off or, you know, you want to increase your traffic or focus on something like I've just gotten back into Twitter this year and it's it's kind of a trip, like I'm getting more traffic from it. I've got like 19000 followers. I've always pushed my content. But I'm like I did a post on Content Creators planner recently. And it was a nine steps I'm taking to start enjoying social media again because I got really tired of it and did a lot of debating. Like the Facebook group is over 7000 people now. And I'm like, oh, I want to do this. I'm like, what? What did you enjoy about this, Kim? And it was this, Bob. It's the connecting and it's talking with people and building relationships. And it's like, I do have fun playing with stuff or, you know, taking like the next thing I really want to dig into is promoting the newsletters in terms of creating carousels on Instagram or or a series of stories and testing the traction of that and making sure I'm tagging the people in the newsletter. So it's very strategic. That's going to be tedious. Like I'm going to have to create, you know, ten, twelve, whatever images and it's going to be. But at the same time, it's a fun test. I mean, if you do not have traffic, you do not have sales like it. Just end of story. Right. So it's I think people need to give themselves permission to do what they want to do, period. You can grow a business without social media today. You absolutely can put it into paid traffic. Simple. You know, go write on places and get links back. It's it's all what works for you. It was kind of like, you know, the insanity with clubhouse. I was like, I don't have the bandwidth and I had people all you'd be great on this. And I'm like, I don't want to sit around. Listen, I don't want to do and and I love audio content. I really, really do. But I'm very particular. I would rather listen to a podcast and listen to twelve people having a conversation, like, honest, you know, so it's it's I made a conscious decision and I've, I've been like, never say never. But the truth is, I do not want to I don't have the bandwidth, I just don't. Why not use the platforms I like. I'm on Facebook all the time. I'm on Instagram. I don't, I'm not as good about checking it, but it's like I'm starting to get some traction from Twitter. I'm like, oh, that's enough. Should I be publishing? I push everything everywhere, but it's like, OK, or go. I want to create publications on Medium for both newsletters and LinkedIn. Start publishing articles there, but it'll happen when it happens. Cam, you have been an awesome guest. I'm looking at the clock and I know you have another meeting. I don't know what it is in ten minutes, so I want to make sure you've got some time to get there. So if people want to connect with you, how would you like them to do that? Probably just through my site. I mean, Kim Doyle Dotcom and it's Dwight. Well, if you're listening like Royal Doyle. Kim Doyle and all my social I don't know how I had the foresight to do that when I was the word president, but somehow I just knew. So all my platforms, it's just at Kim Doyle, you can find me. The Facebook group content creators say hi. I'm it's I'm on a mission this year to connect with as many new people and develop relationships as I can outside of the same circles. So I am I am an open book and I need to end with one question. I try and remember to ask everyone, and I haven't warned you about this, but what's one thing you do now that you wish you'd started five years ago writing Copywriting, Copywriting, Copywriting, Copywriting. You do not have to want to be a copywriter to understand how it works. And I it's it will it will pay off more than anything else. Truly, if you can learn, copy and how to communicate your message effectively. Hands down. Copy all catechist you did. So you said a lot. I was being funny like I said. Well, thank you, Bob. Other people can look at your business and see success, but if you see untapped potential and lost opportunity, then be open to a radical rethink. Most of the world's most successful business owners only found success after two or three radical changes. It's part of the journey. Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe. And if you haven't already, then join my Facebook community. You'll find a link and the shots are just head over to amplify me if I'm forward slash insiders. I would love for you to connect with me on social media. You will find me wherever you hang out at. Bob Gentle. And if you do message me, let me know so I can follow you back. If you enjoyed the show, then I would love for you to get a five star review up on Apple podcasts. It would mean a lot to me and it's the best way to help me reach new subscribers. My name is Bob Chatwal. Thanks again to Kim for giving us her time this week and to you for listening and see you next week.