Stop Doing Productivity and Start Being Productive - with Mike Vardy

Bob (00:00.894) Hi there and welcome back to Building Your Leader Brand. My name is Bob Gentle, and every week I speak with incredible people who share their secrets to building, marketing, and monetizing their expertise and the mindset you need for your business to grow and thrive. If you're new, take a second and hit the subscribe or the follow button on your phone. It really helps me out, makes me smile every time I see the numbers grow. If you like this podcast, you will probably love the personal brand business roadmap. Over 60 pages, all new and updated for 2026. And if you're listening next year, new and updated for 2027. 100% free as a gift from me, just visit amplifyme.agency forward slash roadmap. So this week, I am more excited than a Boy Scout with a brand new toy. productivity, productiveness, the ability to execute on your vision. Is probably the number one differentiator between those who thrive and those who really fail to live up to their own hopes, never mind other people's hopes. certainly in my work, the thing that makes the difference between a great idea and a great business is your ability to move from the idea to actually having it done. So productivity, I would say almost certainly. Trumps a great plan or a complicated plan. Listeners to the show will be very familiar with me using the phrase frameworks foster freedom. And I didn't make it up. Every time I say it, I say, this is a Mike Vardy. And I am so excited to welcome Mike Vardy to the show. Mike, welcome. Mike Vardy (01:39.85) Every time I say Mike Vardy (01:47.778) Bob, thanks for having me. Really, really appreciate it. Bob (01:51.391) So I have been trying to get you back at a podcast low key for a long time now. And it it's largely because of the kind of thing that you are really well known for. And I often Make a bit of a ham fisted mess of introducing guests in my enthusiasm. So I try and make a point of inviting them to tell us a little bit about who they are, where they are, and what it is they actually do. So Mike, who the hell are you? Mike Vardy (02:24.149) Well, I'm Mike Vardy. I am based in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada. And father of two kids who are one is here in Victoria, the other one is on the other side of the country. Canada's a big country too, so it's just not I can't just hop in a car and go visit my daughter. and I am someone who has been enthusiastic and kind of I've d I've gone from being a productivity enthusiast to a specialist to a strategist. To now I'm in my philosophical era, I think. I think I've headed in that direction. I think that happens anytime you spend a lot of time in in an area of of interest, you become a subject matter expert, so to speak. And that's that's what I do is I help people stop doing productive and start being productive. Bob (03:09.556) So you have a new book. I I think it y we were talking earlier, it is available if you want to buy it. It hasn't been actively launched yet. It's called Productiveness. No subtitle. Very mysterious. And I would describe it almost it's a cross between a love letter to getting things done and a worldview. It's not a productivity book, but it is a book about how to become a productive person. How would you categorize it or characterize it? Mike Vardy (03:41.602) That's a that's a great way to put it. I I really like, you know, when you're so close to something you've written and spent a lot of time on, when someone can kind of articulate that in a way that you have been circling around, that that's really that that kind of makes me feel really good. So I appreciate that because I think you're right. It is it's not a departure from where I s where I've been, because I started out as a productivity parody guy. Like I was doing this back when, as Merlin Mann, you know, discussed this idea of productivity porn when everybody was kind of like, let's like the all the life hackery and stuff that was going. I I mean I was a managing editor of LifeHack. I'd contributed to LifeHacker. And and you know, so it's not that I've abandoned those kind of ideas around, as you pointed pointed out, frameworks foster freedom. A lot of people think, frameworks as in, you know, like the the you know, the the idea of contextual work or in in my previous book, The Productivity Diet, the idea of using attention paths and theming your time and all that stuff. That's still really, really important. I've always categorized this this book, Productiveness, as kind of a an a demonstration and an illustration probably is better of a return to where we were and how we can get there now. because the term productiveness predates productivity. it was the state of being productive. It didn't forsake quality for quantity. And that's what's happened. And so to me, if if the productivity diet, my previous book is the how-to book, I've called this the why to book, right? Like it's the, you know, the and and you know, I circle, I've been circling this work for a long time. In fact, when I was working on the productivity diet, which came out last year, and it took me a while to get that one done too, because again, frameworks and systems and that. They evolve as well. And once you commit them to paper, it's kind of like, you know, and I've talked to David and Alan and other people about that. It's like once it's on paper, it's like, that's it. It's no longer yours. And if you want to evolve it, you've got to hope that people return to you and say, well, no, this has changed a little bit and this has evolved. this book was very much kind of this this I I was I was going into what was going on with productiveness as that book was kind of in its Mike Vardy (06:00.289) promotional phase, like it was done. And it it kind of covers the things that were left unsaid in that book. If I had put this stuff in the Productivity Lide, I think would have got lost in the shuffle. So if you've read the Productivity Lide, I think, and I know you have, at the end I tease this book. I tease liter I I may literally say, you know, this word productiveness, but that's a story for another time. And this is the time. So yeah, I I appreciate that, that kind of view of what this book is because I did try to make it that way. I did try to write it as a It wasn't forsaking productivity per se. It was just it's kind of to give people the sense of, wait, maybe maybe I don't need to hustle hard. Maybe I don't need to. It's it's it's you know, it's a thoughtful book as opposed to a a bit more prescriptive that that a lot of productivity books are. Bob (06:51.23) So in the productivity diet, and I think in a lot of productivity books, they focus on the practice, the system. And one of the things I noticed doing an awful lot of these interviews is If you take anybody at the beginning of their business journey and you try to parachute them into the business that they now run, they'd destroy that business very quickly because they're not the person that they would need to be to run the business as it stands today. And I I often use the example of me and Gary Vaynerchuk. If you parachuted me into Gary Vaynerchuk's business, it would be gone in a week. Because I'm not him. and productivity systems are a little bit like that. The system is the Mike Vardy (07:32.141) Mm-hmm. Bob (07:38.367) The structure, but the individual that sits within that and and is the the person operating the system is actually the deciding factor. and what you've codified here is not so much the practice, but you describe them as the principles. Could you run us through those principles? Obviously not replacing with reading the book, but it'll give us a good starting point. Mike Vardy (07:47.415) Yeah. Mike Vardy (08:04.567) Sure, sure. I'll start off with not necessarily the first principle in the book because they all kind of feed off of one another, right? Like the these nine principles do feed off one another. And if you go through the book, you could read, I mean, read the book in order if you want, or if you see a principle that you like you just discussed, really nuance, right? The idea of nuance. And so many that's one of the principles of productiveness, because as you put it, n if I was parachuted into Gary Vaynerchuk's business, it would be destroyed as well. you know, any you know I think one of the the the things when people are adopting these systems, these frameworks, these these mental models, so to speak, is that they they forget that they're models, they forget that they're flexible, they forget that the new ingredient is them. And so therefore, you can't mimic it to the nth degree because you it won't work the same way, right? Because what the human brings to the table. Is completely different than what the system is necessarily built for, per se. Humanness is another one of the principles. It's actually the first one mentioned in the book. And the reason I brought that one up first is because productivity has become something that has has kind of forgotten that we're humans. I mean, look at AI at this point, right? Like, I mean, we're in this era of generative AI where we see that, I mean, it's it's probably reminding us, if anything, that that look what AI can do compared to what a human could do. I'm like, But instead of looking at that from a negative standpoint, which can happen, it's like, you know, well, AI can do this much faster. I'm like, yeah, but look at the errors. Look at the look at the the things that are being missed. I mean, we're seeing this now with things like watermarking and and you know, we have to change the way we test students now because you can't just write a paper. Now there's more oral presentations, things like that. So humanness is is the first principle I get into. Then there's grace, giving yourself this grace along the way. And You know, the interesting thing about grace is it also pairs nicely with gratitude, which is not obviously one of the principles, but grace and gratitude go go hand in hand as well. It all of these principles also have a ness at the end of them to a degree, like gracefulness, humanness. and the ness is this state. So when you're looking at all of these principles, the the other ones are prudence, cadence, and cadence is very d like the cadence one was really interesting. I had a musician friend of mine. Mike Vardy (10:29.143) Who read it and he he started talking about tempo and rhythm and and and they're all it's interesting because I'm a word nerd. So I chose cadence specifically because cadence isn't necessarily always musical. It could be a seasonal thing. I mean, the reason you mentioned off the top, the book's available now as we're doing this conversation in the middle of August, but it's not the right time to go, hey everyone, let's do a big launch. No, it's it's I'm going to paste this because this kind of message. Isn't a let's hit them hard and you know make a big splash. This is a a slow ebb, right? Like it's a slow, I mean, and a lot of books that I admire are that. so you know, again, cadence is another one. trust and will are two other principles. They come at the tail end. If you're a Green Lantern nerd, you'll probably love the Will chapter because I go into the embodiment of the Green Lanterns. And I don't talk about will power, I talk about will. Because there is a distinction there too. and then the other one, of course, there's two more efficacy, which is different than efficiency. I get into some stories of my time at Costco there. We often talk about efficiency. We saw, for example, and we're seeing, how when large institutions try to create departments around efficiency, how well that works as opposed to thinking about efficacy, which is a blend of efficiency and effectiveness when you think about it. you can be a f I mean efficiency is really for a lot of people, they don't understand that it's not just about speed, but it's that's where people go with it. Effectiveness, the problem with that though, is that it often forsakes speed to a degree. So efficacy is kind of that nice blend. And then tolerance. And the reason I like tolerance as opposed to say precision or accuracy is that you get a range, right? And I in the story I talk about, you know, I talk about this idea of And I recently wrote about this too. Ted Lasso, which I love the idea of the bullseye. And I always thought that when you played darts that you had to hit the bullseye. Like that was the thing. It's like be pr like hit that's where you're aiming for. But that's not the that's not the where you aim. Like that's not where you should be aiming all the time, at the very least, right? So I I all of these principles, whether you read them in order, they feed all off of each other. And they're not I I think the interesting thing about this book. Mike Vardy (12:54.121) And and I I struggle with this too, is that you can't check these things off and go, Well, I got it. Tolerance, check, grace, check. Like they are things that are ongoing. So there is a practice element to it, but it's not a check markable practice. I mean, a lot like journaling or meditation or anything like that. It's the more you the more you sustain them in a way that works for you. Again, cadence, the more you're going to be able to tap into them and stay in this state of productiveness or reach this state of productiveness, which again doesn't doesn't forsake quality for quantity. And that's really what we want. Bob (13:32.511) There was two things that came up for me as you were speaking. both I would say almost on the theme of e f efficacy. One is I've come to realize I'm never going to not be busy. I'm never going to not have a very full list of things to do. And I've accepted I'm never going to get them all done. Ever. And What that means is I have to make decisions about what I'm going to abandon and what Mike Vardy (14:04.129) I think l let me let me let me chime in here real quick. I think that you can't I'm not saying you're glossing over that, but the hard thing initially, and you spent people spent is accepting that. Like you have to accept that. Like the decision is and and I know you're gonna get there. The decision is the step you're almost like you have to mourn or feel grief around the fact that you're never going to get it all done. And I talk about this and you know, people go, well, You know, when it with time crafting, which is the framework I really like, which is what I teach inside of the productivity diet. It's like, well, why do you why can't we manage time? Why do have to craft it? I'm like, well, you're gonna craft your time. Cra you craft time. Well, when do you stop crafting time? When you no longer have any of it. Well, and that's a graceful way of saying when you're dead. Like that's it, right? And so you're go things are gonna be left undone. So there is this this mourning or this grieving process, and it's it it it varies. and it it's it re it it it returns to you too because your brain does remember, even though like David Allen talks about closing loops, your brain does remember there's this thing and and it and you can't predict when it's gonna show up either. So the decisiveness part is the willingness to not only commit, but also to let go. And there's that grief part that I don't think, and we don't maybe necessarily think of it as grief, but it is. Bob (15:28.884) So I used to use digital productivity systems and I'm not criticizing them, but one of the things that I really struggled with is they're easy to put things in, and there is generally only one way out when that thing is done. And what you end up in is a situation where you constantly feel like a failure because the task volume is always going up and your effectiveness can't possibly keep up. Mike Vardy (15:34.05) Mm-hmm. Mike Vardy (15:42.903) Yeah. Yeah. Bob (15:58.119) And what this led to for me was what I began to recognize as a tidal overwhelm. And it would happen almost predictably. And I began predicting it. And I knew I'm going to get overwhelmed with the system at some point. So I need to begin preparing for it. And I need to have a system for the overwhelm. And eventually I realized entropy is one of the one of the givens in nature. But digital product system productivity systems are. Mike Vardy (16:23.789) Mm-hmm. Bob (16:28.604) that they escape it. There is no entropy. There is no decay. The product, the t tasks are always there. So I moved over to what some people might recognize as the bullet journal method. Self-cleansing. Things get consciously left in the past. And for me that was very liberating. But what that meant for me was I no longer felt like a failure. I made decisions. And I think this is really Mike Vardy (16:39.725) Mm-hmm. Bob (16:57.734) important for people to understand that this really speaks to a lot of the points in here. There's grace because I feel like I've been permitted to move past it. the Mike Vardy (17:09.163) You know, I I still use a digital system, but I don't use it as my driver. I think you've probably I mean, I have this thing called a daily driver, but I I mean it which is basically I look at you know, my digital tool, whatever that is, at the time, and I've moved between them, but I have a couple that I specifically use these days. And I will take from that and move it to paper, to the physical I can touch it kind of world. Because number one, the other stuff stays out of the way. Right. Because that's a big thing. It's like, you know, I want to be more connected to the things that I've the intentions. I want to give them the attention they deserve. But also, the the the kicker here is and and and a lot of people will say, but then you're duplicating the work. I'm like, no, it's not duplicating the work. It's it's isolating it and and then committing to it. And then I go back in and check it off. Right. It's it I mean, to me, it's akin to like, You make a grocery list and then you go shopping for the groceries and then you come home and you erase the list and you're gonna make a whole new list again. Well, why wouldn't you just take, you know, keep the same list and just check, you know, and I don't use a digital grocery list. My wife doesn't use a digital grocery list. We have a whiteboard, we write it down when it's done. Then when we run out, we put it down again. Right. And so I think th the the the kicker here is the other thing that I think the way digital tools do escape entropy. And what I mean by that is they they seemingly do. It's a bit of an illusion. Is because they're invisible, that creates the illusion of I don't need to look at them. So therefore they they're still there. They're still there. They're still there. But they are facing entropy. They are not moving forward. That's why Trello back in the day used to have like aging. Do you remember when Trello used to age the tasks and it looked like the paper was getting older and older? Or you get these warnings in these digital tools, like this is at risk of and That creates the what all of these things do is they put us into this heightened sense of urgency over importance. And the bullet journal method, but and and any, by the way, any of these methods can can fall prey again once you get the human on the other side. Because the bullet journal method in practice is really, really strong until you become somebody who tries to fancy it up and tinkers with it and doesn't because that can happen too. And that can happen inside your digital tools. Again, humans Bob (19:25.66) Right. Mike Vardy (19:31.394) I mean, ultimately we we do love that that customization, that optimization, that because it feels like work. It feels like we're doing something. And I talk about the idea of the reckless, ruthless, and reasoned realms of of being productive inside of this book. And the reasoned one would tell us, like, just get it in the, you know, you don't need to buy the fancy notebook. You could do it this way. Or, you know, there there's lots of interesting ways to move things forward. And back to the idea of the ardent getting things done followers or the people who love using the eyes. Like you can combine all of these things together and you should. I I love it when someone says to me, you know, I love the idea of time theming. I don't really use attention pass. Instead I have this other I use the or in the case of productiveness, I talk about the productiveness ROI at the end of the book. It's kind of the the the the thing I bring up at the end. If you want to have some sort of tracking mechanism. I talk about this might, can, must, will, which is helps with decision making. I I will love those that adopt it. And I will love those that say, nope, too much. I've already got something that works for me or this isn't, because if you're doing any of this, if you if you start to really lean into one of the principles, you're getting that much closer to the state of productiveness. So it's not an all or nothing, it's a it's not a zero sum game. It's not an all-or-nothing system or approach. It is, it's a way forward. And there are many ways forward. And and you and that's that's the beauty part about all of this. So if you're somebody who loves digital tools, great. find a way to make it so that they don't become the anchor that keeps you, but the they are the driving force that that pushes you forward in a way that works for you, where you can feel grace, where you can. And and the digital tool itself won't do that. You have to up you have to bring that to it. Same with an analog tool. Bob (21:33.524) One of the things that Bob (21:40.277) troubles me because I see it so often is people prioritizing this the urgent over the actually important. There's always things on fire. The fire always gets the attention. Turns out the things that are on fire are never actually on fire. They just look like they're on fire. It's an illusion. Mike Vardy (21:57.554) d I don't like the term fighting fires either because they'll say like I've got fires to fight I'm like so you're gonna let cer some things burn so the other things can thrive. They're like, What are you talking about? Like I mean, I live in part of the world where there are forest fires burning regularly in the summer. And they have to be strategic about how they fight those fires. Same thing in a you know, I'm I mean years ago and I don't you care I'm if you're looking on video, I mean I have a burn mark along my th and it's it's from a grease burn, right? Now, if you if I fought that fire, and by the way, this is from the metal from the pot. So I actually fought the fire appropriately because I worked in restaurants. I knew you don't put water on a grease fire. You use salt or so and and if you have a fire extinguisher, it's gotta be the right fire extinguisher for certain fires. And if you most people don't think about it that way when they say, I'm fighting fires all day long, I'm like, So what equipment do have? How are you approaching these fires? They're No, no, no, I'm just I'm just you would never spray willy-nilly at a fire. You would never you would never throw water in a grease fire. So don't th that that's one thing. And and and by the way, the urgency important thing is hilarious to me too, because those tools, if you're using a tool like say Todoist, for example, priority one, whenever somebody uses that, and I'll use this as an example, they're like, So that's my urgent stuff. I'm like, no, it should be your important stuff. They're like, What? Like, yeah, priority one should be the important. Priority two should be the urgent. They're like, why? Like because That way the important stuff stays at the top. You can take care of the urgent stuff first, but if you all if you take care of the all the priority one stuff and it's urgent, then you've already diminished the value of the prior of the important by making it the second priority. And that's something, but why do we do that? Because that's just the way we think. We think sequentially, we think ranking, and we've been taught, to your point, that urgent matters over important. And I mean All you have to do is use the Eisenhower slash covey matrix to know that that you don't want things to be in that quadrant. You want to focus on you want you wanna keep things in that important, not urgent, and take care of those before they become urgent and important, or worse, urgent but not important, or even worse, they're no longer relevant. They're no longer and we've all done that. We've all had things fall by the wayside. So yeah, it's it we are the world we live in primes us for this. We use Bob (24:17.332) Yeah. Mike Vardy (24:21.791) metaphors like I'm gonna I I have to fight fires all day long. I'm like, wow, you know, you must really be strategic about how you do this. How many things burn? How many things they're like, what are talking about? I'm like, don't use that metaphor. Don't use that. Cause it's not, I mean, if you were really fighting you, if anything, you're playing whack-a-mole more than fighting fires. Bob (24:44.19) I I am not going to ask a follow up question or make an observation because I know you have to go at some point very soon. And I could talk about this all day long because it's it's a hobby horse. But I want to get into Mike Vardy's three amplifiers. So these are things that listeners can do, eat, rub on themselves, things that will help you move forward or just be better. Mike Vardy, Amplifier number one. Mike Vardy (24:49.751) Yes. Mike Vardy (25:11.533) Whew. Amplifier number one for me is a journal, like a journal, like some form of journaling. so in other words, a practice, like whether it's a physical paper notebook, whether it's using a digital tool like Reflection, which is what I use, or Apple's own journaling app. The reason I think this is important is because introspection helps us course correct. You know, we've heard of I don't do the weekly review like David Allen talks about. I stopped doing that a long time ago because I spent too much time doing that and not enough time actually, you know, moving things forward. But by doing a journal pretty much every day, I can course correct quickly. I can see patterns, I can see all of that. if the to-do list is the kind of the directory the the details of your days, you know, here's what I did. the directory of your days is your calendar. Hey, here's where I need to be, here's what will happen. The journal is the story. You know, you could you I mean, you and I are having a conversation right now. I could, this is a calendar. Okay, this is what I did, this is how, but I can't tell how it went unless it's in the journal. So journaling is is one of them. That's that's a big one. I think the second one is walking. Like taking. Time to go for walks. Whether it's in, I mean, I live in a rainy part of the world. You you I believe you're you get a lot of rain where you are too. In fact, where I live, yeah, yeah. Where I live on Vancouver Island, north, there are it's the only other place in the world where there's certain ingredients that can make scotch in the same way that Scotland can make, or something like that. But walking, because Bob (26:44.55) It it has been sad, yeah. Mike Vardy (27:02.367) What it does, and and it doesn't, I mean, if you want to bring headphones to take with you, that's fine. I often find that I I will bring my phone and if I have an idea, there's something about the motion, like getting getting outside, or even and if even if you're on a treadmill, but there's something about, and I don't know what it is, I've not done any studies around this, but the kinetic motion of just you moving gets things moving overall. So number one, it's good for your your joints and your body and all that stuff because it's not too taxing on you, but also it it gets your mind. It's a lot of stuff can happen there. So that would be the second thing. And these are all things that are easily accessible. I try to make them all super accessible. And then this is where I'm going to be a bit of a nerd about it. and this is my own thing. But to go along with the the the f the kind of the f the the journaling thing is a really nice pen. Like a really nice like I love fountain pens and I'm a bit of a nerd about them. there's something about writing with a fountain pen or with a pen that you that you really that elevates the level of import around what you're putting down. Now, you you again, you can fall prey to, and I've done this, my gosh, what ink should I get? And what found like you can go down a rabbit hole, like with anything, right? Like it can be, as you mentioned, a hot real hobby horse. But if you can eventually get past the preciousness of, my goodness, I don't want to put anything in this journal because I don't know what to put in here. I think having a really good pen solves that problem because whatever you're writing down with with that pen really matters no matter where you put it. Like I wrote I used my favorite pen today just to make sure that I had a couple of notes in front of me. It didn't matter. I put on like this this sticky note. So but the pen that I used is my favorite pen. So those three things. And I mean it again, it doesn't have to be fancy. It just has to be the thing that brings you Brings you a little bit of of joy and and contentment. I think all three of those things, when when done in a sustainable way that works for you, creates the contentment that we need to really approach things with reason, with with all of these other principles that I talk about. Because at the end of the day, that's really what I'm looking for is contentment. I mean, yes, happiness is great, but it's fleeting. Just like sadness should be fleeting. But contentment, right down the middle. Mike Vardy (29:23.829) Right. And that's where I I kinda wanna be there. I'm gonna say right down the middle, you know, there's a little wiggle room, obviously, but it's that middle piece that I really like. I I love being in the middle. It's not sexy, but it it kind of as Anthony Bourdain was once quoted as saying, or someone I think it was the documentary in that he said, Anthony Bourdain loved to run into the gray. And I'm like, I yeah, that I the gray is a great place to be. Bob (29:34.631) Okay. Bob (29:48.809) What I love about what we've been describing today is it's very easy to be busy, it's very easy to be busy. It's very easy to be seemingly productive, but to be effective and to enjoy it and to be maintaining the experience of being in flow is a very rare and special thing. And it's actually not that difficult. And what I love about your book, Productiveness, is it's focused on that. It's about How to be effective, how to make the right decisions supporting your effectiveness, but also still enjoy it and and to maintain that almost stillness, which I think we could all do a lot more with. Mike, this has just been a lot of fun. We've just scratched the surface. I can't wait to get a paper copy of Productiveness when it is available for me, which I'm it it is. So I can go buy it today, can I? Wow. Mike Vardy (30:47.051) You can go buy it today. Yeah, you could go buy it today if you want. But but the big push is September first. I mean, no one w that's the other thing too, is that the you know, as I've been putting this book together, it's like the summer has been a really interesting period because I've been preparing and building momentum. And no one's really trying to be productive in the summer. So it's actually landing it at the beginning. And September first is the start of my year as of right now. So I mean, until my kids are out of school, September first. So it's it's the perfect way for me to start my new year and it's the perfect way for everybody else to start theirs as well. Bob (31:20.98) Pre-being productive. It never goes out of fashion in my house. Mike, thank you so much for your time. You at home listening? Thank you for staying with us. If you've enjoyed this, you will love the personal brand business roadmap. Over 60 pages of everything you need to start, scale, or fix your expert business 100% free as a gift from me. Also, if you've enjoyed the show, you will. get a lot of satisfaction from leaving a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts. But that's five. Count them. Thanks again for listening. And Mike, you have been awesome. Thank you. Mike Vardy (31:56.183) Thanks, Bob.