Standing out in a crowded space with your PartnerPowers, with Max Habeck

Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show. Today on the show, Bob is speaking with Max Hobeck. What I never imagined, I think how the business has become virtual. Initially, when I set out, I thought, now I need to be going to see people constantly across Europe and whatnot. And I think that has totally changed. I think the entry barriers for me as an individual service provider, they really have shrunk in quite a nice way. Hi there and welcome back to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneurship. My name is Bob Gentle, and every week I'm joined by incredible and inspiring people who share what makes their business work. If you're new to the show, take a second right now to subscribe to whichever player you use. And if you are listening on Apple podcasts, make sure and click that new follow option in the top right hand corner of the page or in your app, rather. That way, Apple knows to queue me up every time I publish a new episode. And that way we both win. So before I jump into introducing this week's guest, just a quick reminder once again that after nearly 200 of these interviews, I've learned a thing or two about what makes business work online. And it turns out success doesn't leave clues. And I want to give you that map, jump over to my website and grab your copy of The Personal Brand Business Roadmap. It's everything you need to start scale or just fix your personal brand business. It's yours for free as a gift from me. Now, most weeks on the show, we focus on how to stand out as a small business or as an entrepreneur. But what if you want to stand out inside a large organisation, as a personal brand entrepreneur, so to speak, rather than as an entrepreneur? It's safe to say that in large organisations, the same rules apply as in regular business. You want to stand out inside or outside an organisation, same rules apply. So this week, my guest is Max Habeck, and we're going deep into how to stand out in a global Corporation. Max, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm delighted to be here. So I'm really excited to speak to you about this particular thing because a lot of my contacts, a lot of the people who know me, they're not running organisations. They're not business leaders, so to speak. But it still matters to them that they're visible in their organisation and that they're making the best out of every opportunity they can. So I know this is really your area of focus in a big way. So that was why I wanted to have you on the show. But for the listener who doesn't know you, who is a Max Habit, and what do you do? What's the Max Habit story? Yeah, the Max Havoc story. It's really about leadership development in the big four. And I work exclusively with leaders in the big four. Firms, which are the major accounting and integrated professional services firms. Just think Ernst and Young, think Deloitte, think KPMG. Pwc and similar firms. And it's really for me helping people leaders in those firms build stand out businesses while having a life. I used to be a leader at one of them myself, looking after 1700 people in one of the fastest growing businesses globally and basically in a way figured it out and been struck by the fact how important the behaviours I been learning over the years are also now in my change life. For me, it's really about bringing excitement, confidence and joy to people in the big four and similar firms and wherever they may be. So one of the things we've had conversations in the past, one of the things that strikes me about working in these big organisations is the pressure is on. What is the pressure like for these people day to day? What are the expectations on them? Well, the interesting parties. You enter the profession as a junior consultant, as a junior auditor and you become a subject matter expert. Usually you like numbers, you do deep dives, you get excited about it. You are totally waked up by showing your client new insight and you're progressing throughout your career. And then all of a sudden more and more other things become important, for instance. And the major part is selling. So the pressures people find themselves under is and even after having reached the highest level and the highest level in these professional services firms, it's a role basically a partner. You are a co owner of the business and you are supposed to be running your own business, finding clients, developing them, serving them. So you're finally in the role you always wanted to be in. But all of a sudden you find out and say, oh my God, this is much more demanding than it ever has been. The firm is expecting so much from me. You always pride also yourself on being a subject matter expert. And yet again the firm says, well this is all great, but now you need to become a sea level advisor. You need to be working with the top executive. You need to bring to bear all the services the firm has to offer and really be an integrated provider. Services you need to generate the revenues and you get your scorecard and the firm is expecting from you a certain top line, you're contributing and once in a while you're getting desperate saying, So where is this coming from? Oh my God, you have team members and you always provided say it again. Here you have team members, people supporting you, working yet again, that's fine. You're working with team members, people supporting you. And you always prided you on being a great people person. But you sense they have all become more demanding and you need to figure it out. And Moreover, you wouldn't be there if you hadn't been able to work really hard and you get to a point also where you start realising, will this never change? The hours remain brutal. The strain may be showing at home and you look around you and you want to know, why are some of the others so much more at ease? So that's it not quite in a nutshell, but these are kind of the five, six areas I always see people dealing with and I dealt myself with as a former partner in one of the major firms. So listening to that, I think there's a lot of parallels just with regular business ownership. That a lot of the time people grow into a business ownership role because they were a great technician. You speak about subject matter experts. Most people are great at what they do, which is why they do well in business, and then they find themselves as a business owner trying to grow, building a team. It's the same when you come in as a partner, I guess, and the rules are different, the expectations are different and you have to grow in other areas, I guess. So for me, there's a lot to relate to there within your Practise. Then how are you helping them grow in these areas? What are the tools that you bring to bear? Because these are busy people, they don't have time to waste and they don't suffer fools gladly, I imagine. So what is your process for helping them get to a point where they're probably in crisis or sometimes to a point where they are at the same level of ease or similar as those people that they look up to? Yeah, it's a great question, Bob, and I'm just reflecting on a discussion I had with a partner in one of the firms just yesterday, and I was stuck by the fact that he has about 40 years old. He has been a partner for three and a half years, so he has been really on the fast track and he is starting to realise now and say, oh, my God, I still have 20 years to go, what am I going to be doing now? How is my future going to be panning out? Is this just continuing? Is it going to be more and more and more and what I have done and I have been part of the industry for all my career. I started out in the 90s as an associate in the strategy converting firm and then moved on from there. But what I really have defined is what I call the three partner powers, and the three partner powers are market up, team up and lead up. And I'm pretty vocal about that. These are the three areas you need to be succeeding in in order to have a great career. And what is so interesting about it is it's not really different from what you need to be doing as an entrepreneur. For instance, market up. It's really about shaping your profile, define your ideal clients and develop your go to market system. Think about it for a moment. In the major firms, you have hundreds of partners. What is great about the major firms is there's tremendous market access. However, your co partners need to understand what you do in order for them to be able to present you and your service at one of their clients. So it's really, I mean, get clear your profile, tell them who is your ideal client. And then also you need to have kind of a rigorous system how you go about developing your market. And clearly in the big four, it's more internally, I would argue, than externally, because the market reach is very strong. Moving over to the team up part, it's really about determining your role, how you cooperate with others, how you leverage skills you find in the firm, how you find people willing to support you. And it's really about establishing your relationship outside of the corporate environment. You probably would say, how do you partner with other firms? Or so here you need to partner internally. And that's what I call team up. And then I think what really makes a difference is the lead up part. You find yourself after having been a partner for a couple of years, people start to think or you start to think there are quite a few around me. How do I stick out? Is there a next step? For me, it's really about you setting your agenda, articulating your core beliefs and sharpening your presence. And I think that is so comparable to the outside world. But at the same time, very few have a clear system determined, a clear system, a clear pathway for themselves. And that's where I come in and that's where I help because I think it is really about keeping up the excitement, the confidence and also the joy you as a professional experienced in the early years of your career. But as I said a little earlier, and then you are a partner and you find yourself and saying, oh my God, I still have a couple of years ago, I have decades ago. How do I keep the energy? What is interesting and I think you can shape it. I think what's interesting to me, listening to what you're describing there is when you're great at something, people promote you and you hear the stories of the great sales professional that was put in a sales manager role. He never wanted to be a manager, but because he was great at his job, he was sort of drawing up the organisation a little bit. And the problem with celebrating success like that is it means that those people who are great at something, as long as they're continuing to do their best, they're constantly being put in positions where their comfort zones are being tested and they're constantly put in positions where they're uncomfortable. And I think that's why these partner powers. They give your ideal customer a tool set with which to become comfortable, to move from a state of distress through discomfort to a state of ease through discomfort. If you see what I mean. Absolutely. And I would totally Echo your point, Bob. I have seen over the years in this industry too frequently. I mean, partners getting promoted to a regional position, more of a leadership position, and they used to be the greatest Rainmaker the world had ever seen. But somehow the firm felt there was a need to provide him or her with the next step up. And Interestingly enough, the teams in the firms many times have been much more observant than the leadership level that within the younger ranks. You heard so and so was promoted to such and such and people looked at themselves and said, really? I mean, come on, he is a great client handler, great salesperson and whatnot. But he cannot stand in front of any group. I mean, he cannot talk, he cannot. Has he ever said anything really engaging? So it's kind of really interesting. And I think, granted, we all cannot become the greatest leaders the world has ever seen. But I think with a plan in hand, you can start working at it. And I think also you need to be don't go all over the place, focus on what makes the difference. Unfortunately, these firms, there are so many systemic behaviours. You join the firm, you observe what the quote unquote elders are doing and that must be right. And you will also find that certain behaviours are just totally silly. They're not adding anything and still people keep doing them and what the partners powers are helping clients with, it's really about, let's make sure you get your focus right and you start working at things that truly matter. And also be clear what you say no to. And unfortunately, over the years and you know what? I've been as guilty as any other partner. There is certain things are thrown in you and you pick them up well, knowing well, this is not quite fitting. You're not really ready to have a discussion right now with your managing partner about it. At the same time, you feel a little, in a way, honoured and say, oh, yeah, cookie, and trusting me with this, but it's not really helping you. And funny enough, after people have become partners, I have had quite a few discussions when I was still a managing partner with junior partners at the time who immediately got approached by the system and saying, hey, couldn't you do this and that for us? And Thankfully, I remember one of the partners calling me up and saying, hey, Max, is this really adding anything right now to what I should be doing? And I thought it's almost like, thank you for that question, Daniel, because no, it's not. You need to be focusing on really something else right now. And the role they offered you. That's great after you got your swimming certificate as a partner but not right now. Make sure you're not getting confused and the big organisations have a tendency to confuse people too. So a place I would like to go I guess is you had a great career in a giant organisation and now you're doing things your own way. It's really jumping from one end of the spectrum right through to the other as a solopreneur so to speak. Although I know you have a team but nevertheless it's the Max Hibeck organisation, it's not Ernst and Young or KPMG or any of these big boys. So how have you found that transition and what I guess the real question is selfishly. It's one of the biggest lessons that you've taken from being in a giant organisation and applied to your own small business. What have been the greatest assets from that experience in your new experience? Well I think one of the greatest assets definitely has been that I don't shy away from presenting myself whether it being little LinkedIn videos and I don't have because have been talking to groups of couple of thousand people and so I think that is definitely one of the assets. I think my career has provided me with the ability to basically climb on any stage and ticket something sensible and worthwhile for the audience. So I think that is really great. At the same time the challenge as a solopreneur it's quite different. I also had to learn and I'm most definitely one of the perfectionists out there and it was really easy with the team you had been working with for years, team members knowing what these standards were as a soloprene that is much more complicated because it's really you, you are the team and in order to really grow the business you need to start leveraging yourself better. I mean I'm totally clear on where my strengths are. I always been a creator, I like to stand in front of people, I like to generate ideas, I have certain expectations for delivery and I think the realisation hey that the workbench is not just the creator or the R Amp D and design Department but also the workbench and they all are called Max. I think that's one of the biggest challenges but I think the realisation is really important that also to establish a real business you need to put a plan in place and you need to work the plan and there are really lead indicators and there are lack indicators so I think really monitoring lead indicators that certain activities are happening. It's really key to generate or produce the lack indicators and for simplicity sake it's really from the number of client contacts as a lead indicator you have had over the course of the week and then as a lack indicator later on the revenues generated basically and I think that kind of understanding has been tremendously helpful and I guess another question I'm always very curious to ask is with your business now. Which parts of it do you find personally the hardest? Which parts are really not your comfort zone? I really like a lot the market facing activities. I'm getting incredible energy out of talking to potential clients. Also in the marketing space, I really like whatever has to do with developing clients, serving clients really love it. I think the struggles really are when it gets about checking things, certain things are really happening. And my whole career I think I've always been a very strong believer that people want to do a great job. I think one of the learning stand for me has become that I need to do a better job in explaining what I want. Where in the past it was kind of easy because somehow people around me got me. They understood from the get go. And I think that definitely has changed and that is a challenge and something we kind of struggle with it weekly. To be honest, I think something I hear from a lot of entrepreneurs is on the one hand, systems that they don't have the systems in place, they give them the freedom. I think when you're working in a large organisation, you have the back office systems there. There is built in efficiencies, whereas when you have to create them from scratch or depend on other people to bring them to you, they don't have those systems necessarily. And so then you're left vulnerable in the situation where you either educate or you do it yourself. And that's not a nice place for someone like you who's used to having these systems just work, I'm guessing. No, I think you are absolutely right. I think one of the challenges I'm all for systems, but there's also the realisation. They are not created by someone else but me in the end or I bring in other people who help me create the system. I think that's exactly where I'm at right now. I think over the last year or so it's been quite clear to me that I need to build a team and I need to really enable them to get certain things in place. And it may not be the picture perfic solution Max would have created, but it's much better than what I think that's part of the realisation too. You're getting to a point more in a way of look at it and say, by God, I mean, I can design a long list of what I need, but we need to kind of start doing and get it executed. And I think that's kind of the constant challenge. It's about priorities. What do you do first, what can be delayed? And clearly when you start out, clearly you start out and say, hey, let's kind of work first on the top line, find some clients and the rest will take place later on. But I would urge all entrepreneurs make sure you're not losing sight of what else needs to be taking place as well. And I think as an entrepreneur, I've been looking for kind of guides people who have done it before. I simply don't have the time and the capacity to educate myself on each and every aspect of what is feasible right now. And, for instance, watch YouTube videos and there is no time for it. So I'm looking for people who can help, who have done it before and either farm it out on a per job basis or bring someone on and say, hey, can you be my integrator here, for instance? So one of the things I know about you is you're busy, you're a really busy guy and you are ambitious, although you're no longer working in Big Four, and that was your choice, you are ambitious for the Max Habit partner Powers business. And I think there are some people listening thinking he only works for four or five different organisations. For the person who doesn't necessarily know how many people work in these organisations. Well, the Big four are 350,000 plus globally. And what is really attractive about them for me as a provider, services targeting them. There are individual country organisations. I think also what I never imagined, I think how the business has become virtual. Initially when I set out, I thought, now I need to be going to see people constantly across Europe and whatnot. And I think that has totally changed. I think the entry barriers for me as an individual service provider, they really have shrunk in quite a nice way. So when I just look at the big four right now, for instance, the big four are present in more than 120 countries. It's sizable. They are structured all the same way. So they are kind of divisions, they are sub business units. So the opportunity for me and also having the experience in these businesses, I mean, it's really a great market to be in right now. And I want to ask a question about that market in a little bit for anybody that's thinking, you know what, I think I have something to serve that audience with. But what I wanted to focus on and the reason I asked the question was people hear people in my chair talking about the importance of Niching all the time. And when I first looked at what you were doing, I thought, that looks like an incredibly narrow niche, but actually it's broad enough to support a good sized business. And that was really where I wanted to go. That you at the moment, it's Max HABIC driving this, but I know you have plans to grow and that sort of projecting yourself five years into the future is really what I wanted to look at is how do you see this organisation growing? I see it really become a true partner, to be honest. I think there is a great opportunity for people like me who have been there, done it. I think one, in dealing with clients, I have kind of immediate credibility because I used to be one of them, I have been through it and I think there is this big discussion between coaches, oh, should the coach know? And it's not really about advice, but I think it's a lot about empathy. What clients tell me is, oh, my God, we definitely see that you understand that the first day of the new fiscal year, your revenue metre starts pretty much at zero and you better get busy. And I think that is something which you can, it's very hard if you haven't been there. And so I see this really grow with a group of partners over the years where we really address the issues partners are facing and really helping them yet again, build stand up Practise while having a life. And I think that's kind of key what we do and that's what we want to be recognised for here. And I guess selfishly, on behalf of the listener, there will be people thinking, yeah, I think I have something to bring. These big four businesses, obviously you have credibility because you were one of them, but they represent quite a healthy, affluent market. And if somebody was listening thinking, okay, I have something that I would like to bring to that audience. How would you mentor someone like that to go about it? It's interesting. The moment you are running a decent sized business and one of the big four, you're getting approached by the outside market people trying to pitch you, coaching, training, presentation, drafting, whatever services. And what I find so interesting is over my career I only worked with a very selected few. First of all, did not have time to and I think this is critical, make sure people get what you offer and what it does. And I think that is one of the observations I have had as a buyer. It was like, I'm not getting it, how is this helping me? And I think it is also executive search services, for instance, they all pitch a good game and so on, but they never understand really that whoever I want to bring into the business, I still have a boss and they need to make it easy for me, make it easy for me, so I can kind of further the course here. And I think that is sometimes it's totally convoluted and I didn't have the time to really take a bite and it was impossible. So I think really be totally clear, think about the potential client and sit back and make it kind of clear what is it they get from you and how does it make their life better? Other than that, there are incredible hurdles to get in there. And if that is not, and if you're not finding promoters to really see the value, I think it's going to be hard. So really, I guess it boils down to relationships. You need to build relationships first. You need to build an understanding of the organisation and the people in that organisation. You need to demonstrate value before you've taken any money and then hope one of those people that you've gone out to bat for reciprocates, but you don't get nothing for nothing. Yeah, I would probably say before you take money, before you take anybody's time. I would say, or you extract value, won't have time. And so make it compelling and make it totally clear. Other than that, I think in this kind of business, in this kind of environment, people are really ambitious. They are kind of goal getters whatever. If it's distracting the interest or if it's complicated, they're not picking it up. So, Max, I'm looking at the time. We should probably bring things to a close quite soon. If somebody's listening, thinking I like the sound of those partner powers, or if they would like to get a little bit closer to you or connect with you, how would you like them to do that? Well, I guess great starting point is my website, Maxabic.com. I also have my partner power scorecard out there, which in essence leads people through 20 plus diagnostic questions and providing the score where people are at. I have also a couple of articles out there and a couple of very pointed videos, which some people may be helpful because I'm also totally clear it's not just applicable in the big four. It's almost in a way, that's how corporations work and what corporations want to see. Max, what's one thing you do now that you wish you'd started five years ago? The thing really, it's almost like and you hear it again and again and it applies. It's kind of keep building your list, start building your list way earlier and make sure that all the contacts you have assembled over here find their way into your list. I think that's kind of key. But yet again, how much can you handle as an individual? I think that's a permanent struggle as a solopreneur entrepreneur. I think that's absolutely true. This is the most common answer that I hear. And it's this whole thing of what's the best time to plant a tree 25 years ago? Absolutely. What's the next best time right now? Right now. Max, you've been an awesome guest. I've had great fun. It's been great to borrow into your business a little bit. I feel so yeah, it's just such a privilege for me to get to be so nosy. So thank you so much for inviting me. I really appreciate being here. Thank you very much. Thank you. Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe and join our Facebook group. You'll find a link in the show notes or visit Amplifyme. Fminsiders. Also, connect with me wherever you hang out. You'll find me on all the social platforms at Popgental. If you enjoyed the show, then I would love a five star review on Apple podcast it would make my day and if you shared the show with a friend you would literally make my golden list. My name's Bob gentril. Thanks to you for listening and I'll see you next week.