Climbing 🏔 the Personal Brand Mountain, with Katy Brinkley

Welcome. To Amplify, the personal brand entrepreneur show. Today on the show, Bob is speaking with Katie Brinkley. That is what's going to change your business. When you step out from behind the curtain and say, Hey, this is who I am. This is what I stand for. This is what my business does. This is how we're different. You're going to bring people into your network, and not everyone's going to be a customer, but you're going to find friendships and relationships and business partners and referral partners. You're going to find all of that when you step out and start speaking about what it is that you do because people are going to identify with you. Hi there and welcome back to the Personal Brand Business Show. My name is Bob gentle and every week I speak with incredible people who share their secrets to building, marketing, and monetize their expertise, intentionally growing a unique personal brand and the mindset you need for your business to grow and thrive. If you're new to the show, then while you still have your device on your hand, hit the subscribe button. That way you won't miss a single episode and you won't miss anything. You won't miss the fun. If you're a regular listener, then consider sharing this show with just one person as the very best way to help me reach more people and help the show to grow. If you're watching on YouTube, hi, it's still new on YouTube. While you're here, hit the like and the subscribe button as the saying goes. It would really help me a lot. It would mean a lot. Social media, for a lot of businesses, owners, it's a bit of a hamster wheel. And if I'm honest, for a lot of business owners, it's a bit of a hamster wheel. If I'm honest, for a lot of business owners, it's a hamster wheel that doesn't seem to pay. And this is something that I know frustrates lots and lots of people. They fall in the trap of either becoming consumers or creating content that just never seems to turn into money. So today, I am thrilled to welcome Katie Brinkley to the show. And we're going to be talking about lots of different things, I'm quite sure, because Katie is multi passionate, multi skilled. But because one place I know I want to go today is turning social media activity into money. But for the listeners who may be meeting you for the first time, Katie, welcome to the show. Can we maybe start with you just telling us a little bit about who you are, where you are, and what you do? Yeah. Oh, man, a little bit. Or as much as you want. I live in Denver, Colorado. I live in the beautiful Rocky Mountains. I am a Colorado girl. I never expected to be an entrepreneur. I went to school to become a sports broadcaster for radio. I got that job right out of school. I'm so fortunate that I actually landed my dream job right out of college. I was the postgame reporter for the Denver Broncos, Colorado Avalanche, all the Colorado sports teams, Colorado Rockies, you name it. I loved it. It was a great job. I got to go into the locker rooms and get all the juicy details of what went wrong with the game or what went right. Sometimes. Yeah, exactly. And it was a great job. But it was right around the time of 2007 when this happened, this thing called Sirius XM, Sirius Radio and XM Radio came out, two separate satellite radios at the time. And everyone in the radio industry panicked, including yours truly. I was like, Well, now what am I going to do? The radio is over. I don't have enough experience to go to a larger radio station. I've only been doing this for four years. Who's going to want to hire me to be the main person there? t's now a small pond is even smaller. So I got out of radio. And that probably, honestly, is something that is one of my biggest regrets. However, I will say that looking back, I really regret that I didn't stick it out longer because we all know that radio is still alive and well. But I wish I would have stuck it out. But it's definitely helped me with what I do today on a daily. I have a podcast. I go on podcasts like this one here, and I'm also a speaker. And if I hadn't had that training and that experience in radio, I don't think that I would do any of this if I didn't have that experience. After I left radio, I moved into marketing, and I was the marketing manager for the Colorado Rock East TV station. I did all their media buys, I did their social media, all the different things that goes into being a marketing manager when you work at a corporate company. And then my company got bought out by a bigger company and my position was eliminated and I was like, Now, what do I do? And two weeks later, I found out I was pregnant with our second daughter. Now what am I going to do? New one's going to want to hire me. Hey, thanks for hiring me. By the way, I'm going to need to go on maternity leave. I was actually sitting in my boss's office at the time, and I remember telling her, I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. And she was sitting there trying to think of different places I could apply to. And she was amazing. I still talked to her to this day. She was an amazing boss, an amazing manager. I remember so vividly, I got up from her desk and I was like, All right, well, back to the old job board. S he goes, Katie, you know what? Before you go, I would just love it if you found some job where social media was all that you did. You're so good at it. The stuff that you've done for the station in just a short time has been amazing. I mean, we've got more followers, we're doing ads. We don't even need to do billboard ads anymore in certain areas because we can do Facebook ads. You're just so creative. I know that social media is your passion and you're so good at it. I would just love it if you found a job where that's all that you do. And I would like it if you could find a way to also get back into radio. And when I left her office, I was like, That's my favorite part of my job is social media. I love doing that. All that goes along with it and creating the graphics and being creative with the captions and connecting with people. And so as I left, I went home and talked to my husband. I was like, What do you think if I just tried to stay at home with our older daughter? They don't have to pay for daycare. And I'll just try and see if I can get some clients doing their social media for them. And that was over six years ago. I started by sitting on my couch doing social media at 8 PM at night for different clients. And it's turned into my social media agency where I have five employees now. We do social media for different businesses, brands, coaches, and consultants. And then I also have a Mastermind where I do coaching for a full year on social media, digital marketing strategy for business owners that have a team that know that social media is an important marketing tool, but no one really just knows how to do it. So those are two things that I was able to really bring to fruition that I never expected to even happen. It was just going to be a side hustle until after my second daughter was born. And then I went back to corporate and now I can't imagine going back and working for someone else. I absolutely love what I do every day. And it's really been an interesting journey from radio to corporate marketing to here I am a social media agency owner. I think what's really interesting in that story is as you were speaking, I was always thinking about Gary Vee and Chuck's philosophy. If you need to become the presenter of your own business. And having come from being a presenter, taking that perspective towards your clients, I'm curious to know how much of your work is helping your clients show up versus helping them find an excuse for not showing up. Do you know what I mean? How do you typically work with your clients in as much as helping them amplify their personal brand as opposed to supporting the corporate brand, if you like? I think that's one of the biggest struggles, honestly, for so many business owners, including yours truly. I mean, when I first... Want to know another fun story. As I was sitting on my couch doing social media for businesses, other businesses, guess who wasn't posting or creating social media for their own? Oh, yeah. My hands raised right now. I mean, the cobbler has no shoes. I didn't even have a social media account for my business until about three years ago. And even then, I was making all the mistakes that I was telling my clients not to do because I didn't have time to do my own. I was like, oh, okay, this is good enough. Just get it out there. Now I've posted something and it's such a mistake. The second that I changed my social media accounts away from my logo, I mean, I love my logo. I love the brand colors. I love the font. Everything that I paid my branding person to do for me, I love it. And so it felt like, Oh, gosh, I can't believe I just wasted all this money. But I didn't. I mean, I use it on a regular basis. But the second that I changed it from my logo to my face, everything for my business changed because people want to do business with people. It doesn't matter how big or how small your business is. If you put just your face on your social media account and you're showing up on the TikToks or the Reels or the Lives, you think about progressive auto insurance. In the United States, there's a company called progressive auto insurance. And who do they have? Well, they have Flo. Flo is out there talking about how to sign up and work with progressive. That is their person that they've hired to be the face of their business. So no matter how big your company is, you still need to have a face out there that people want to identify with, they want to do business with, because it makes you seem more human. No one wants to just do business with the logo. I think what's always been very interesting with you is there are probably hundreds of thousands of people who do work similar to you and me in the world, and yet your name has traveled. I knew of you, I've been aware of you for a long time. And on a fairly short list of people who I know are vaguely high profile as social media marketers, it's actually a small list. And I think it's largely down to that. One, you have credibility, people talk about you. You have a friend's network of people who are highly visible. That supports you. But if I think of how many people as social media managers, they don't really climb out of the corporate brand and make themselves visible. That I think has been must have been very powerful. And how much of that was intentional on your behalf? It was a difficult... I mean, it was difficult for me to step out from behind the curtain because I grew up along... I guess, an endearing term, but I'm a geriatric millennial, so that means I'm a really old millennial. I grew up alongside of the internet. I remember being a kid and typing in DOS commands in order to play L emmings on my computer. I grew up seeing My space come out. My space came out when I was in college. I went all in on My space because Facebook didn't like my little Division Two college up in the mountains. They didn't think we were good enough to be on the Facebook at the time. So I was all in on My space. But I saw My space come out and I remember typing in HTML code so I could change out my My space background. I didn't grow up. My daughter right now, she's a girl scout. My daughter is eight. She's a girl scout and it's cookie time. I was like, Hey, we're going to do a video for me to post on Facebook so that mommy's friends might want to buy cookies from you. She's like, All right. She sits down right in front of the camera. She's like, Hi, everyone. She is so comfortable being in front of the camera. And it's shocking to me because she doesn't have a phone. We don't let her play on the phone or anything, but she knows exactly, Hi, everyone. I'm going to greet you. This is what I'm here for. She knows the script. And it's shocking to me that at eight years old, she already understands that. Whereas for me, I'm over here before I go live. Okay, these are the three talking points I want to make, and I just want to make sure I want to keep it around eight minutes. I prepare for my self stepping out there. It's uncomfortable to step out from behind the curtain. And not all of us grew up with our phone in our face, navigating what we're eating, what we're doing, what we're thinking throughout the day. But that is what's going to change your business. When you step out from behind the curtain and say, Hey, this is who I am. This is what I stand for. This is what my business does. This is how we're different. You're going to bring people into your network, and not everyone's going to be a customer, but you're going to find friendships and relationships and business partners and referral partners. You're going to find all of that when you step out and start speaking about what it is that you do because people are going to identify with you. You never know what it is that's going to be that identifying factor of your business. I mean, Bobby, you could have been like, Oh, My Space. I love that she did HTML code. I remember doing that. And now all of a sudden you feel a connection to me. Or it could have been somebody that listened to me on a podcast and I said, I played softball in college, and that was all that I said on it. But they heard that and they're like, Oh, my daughter plays softball? That's so cool. Now they've remembered me because I said something that was relatable, something that was personal about me. And it takes you from just being somebody out there, a logo or just a picture, into someone that's human. I think what's interesting listening to that, I remember I was at a networking event probably 15 years ago. And it may have been longer than that. And I met somebody, we had a conversation. It wasn't a big deal for me at all. I left, I completely forgot about it. I met her years later and she said that was a pivotal transformational moment in her career and her life. I said something to her that was so powerful. Really? Social media content can be a lot like that. If you're showing up, you're expressing something, you're having views and opinions, sharing ideas and tips. You can't predict what the other person is going to take away from that, how that's going to land. But what you do know is it's going to land in some way and you just have to let the chips fall as they may sometimes. Some people won't like it. Some people will love it. What you can be sure of is whatever you've intended, that just gives it some direction. You can't predict how it's going to land at all. Exactly. I keep saying being human, but that is really one of the biggest things is someone can tell if you're reading something off of a page of Google. Somebody can tell if it's inauthentic. And honestly, that's why I love podcasting so much is because you can really get to know somebody by the sound of their voice. You can hear how passionate someone is by the way that their voice raises when they're talking about something, or the pauses, the inflections of the tone. Podcasting allows you a whole different way of building a relationship and building that human aspect with people that really in a world of so much YouTube videos, high performing videos, and this is how you go viral on TikTok. Everything just feels so high pressure. But with podcasting, you can hear what people really are passionate about. You can hear what people really want you to learn. It's an incredible... There's a reason why I went into radio. I've always been a fan of voice because I think that it allows you to envision and imagine and feel like you know somebody on an entirely different level that you really don't get from video. I think the reason I love podcasting, and to the listener or viewer, I'm sorry, I'm going to digress a little bit. Podcasting, in fact, maybe the listener should just pause or go and do something else for a minute. In many respects, what the listener's experience of the podcast is almost a byproduct of me and you getting to spend some time and building our relationship. What the listener experiences is the byproduct of that, which if we're connecting on a passion point and something we're interested in, it should be an awesome episode. If either of us are trying to persuade each other of something, that podcast is going to fall flat. And I think that for me is what allows me to sustain the podcast because if this podcast was just marketing, I would get bored of it really quickly. This podcast is about personal growth for me and for you and for the listener. What's really interesting is I ask a lot of podcast guests, and I'll probably ask, in fact, when I'm finished this, you answer this question as well. Most people tell me opportunity comes through either outbound sales, ads, social media content, or network and the relationships. Most people, and it doesn't seem to matter what stage of business they're at, will tell me, Yeah, all of those work for them, but the thing that always moves the needle is the relationships that they have. It doesn't matter if you're Amy Portefield or Pat Flynn or a bus driver, that's always going to be true. How does that feel for you? I think it's really true. I think that with having... You can't just do one of those and expect your business to grow. I t is all a giant piece of the puzzle. You can't just post a social media and expect, oh, well, now I'm going to get a ton of people coming in. You can't just do ads and say, Okay, well, now my business is just going to start booming. I really think that all of it is a giant part of the puzzle. And if I do a social media post and a bunch of people that I just networked with at an event see that post and I tag some of them in there, they're going to want to then like it and share it with their friends. And then all of a sudden now all these other people are brought into my sphere. It's the same as I say with Facebook ads. I'm targeting people that have visited my website in the past, or if I've targeted people that have engaged with my page in the past, obviously they're going to go ahead and give me, This is a great product. I love working with Katie, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it makes all the other people that on the ad that see it like, Oh, well, everyone really likes us. So I think that it all works together. But the relationships that I've made over the past three years, especially, have been the difference maker for my business. I've tried to make it so that... I don't post on social media that often. I only post about three times a week. And I think that's enough. I'm not looking to have 100,000 followers or a million followers. I'm not a content creator, I'm a business owner. I think that there's two different ways to post to social media. And if you post as a business owner, only showing up three times a week t hat's more than enough. But I think that with that, only showing up around three times a week, what I'm doing with my time on social media, since I'm not creating content four times a day, is I'm going in there and I'm reaching out and I'm making connections. I'm mindful with my time on the platform and I treat social media not as a way to just kill some time because I got nothing else going on. I go in there with intention. So I'll make a list of like, Okay, who haven't I spoken to for a while? I'm going to go ahead and just reach out, Hey, happy New Year. How's business going? How's your New Year's going so far? Or anything like that. And how are things... Are you still doing this? Or like, What are you working on right now? I'm not trying to get them to buy from me, but just reminding them I'm around and, Hey, how can I support you? And sure enough, like, Hey, actually, if you could just give some love to my social media posts, Sure, you got it. I'll make sure to try and engage with you every day. That's a very easy way. Then by me engaging now, they're like, Katie Wrigley is always around here. I should give her some love on her posts. Or, Hey, I have this client that said they need help with social media. Katie's always showing up in my feed. I'm staying top of mind. I think that the networking part is essential. And social media is a great networking tool. I'm not saying go out there and cold spam DM a bunch of people. That seems to be a really big problem right now on LinkedIn. But not saying to do that. I'm saying to go out there the same way you would at an event or at a conference and talk to them. Say, how are things going? What are you working on? How can I support you? And that's what's made the difference for me over the past few years. It's about being valuable. I think the more valuable you can become to other people, and whether that's as an emotional support, a referral partner, or simply a cheerleader, what goes around comes around. I think it's almost that simple. Obviously, through content, you can almost scale the what goes around comes around. But it's certainly something I found to be true. Now, I spoke at the beginning of when I introduced you, and we've gone off topic, and it's a podcast. That's what it's for. However, you have a virtual summit coming up. Social Profit Lab is an awesome name. If rather than me make up what it's about and get it wrong, what is Social Profit Lab for? Who should come, and what will they experience when they're there? The reason I put together Social Profit Lab was because I know that when I started my business, I made a lot of mistakes. And there was just one thing that... For example, not having my LinkedIn profile optimized the best of its ability, not knowing when to delegate, how to delegate really different tasks or when it was time to hire and that's what Social Profit Lab is all about. It's four days and 40 speakers. The way that it's set up is so that there's going to be... I know there's going to be at least one speaker that has a session that's going to move the needle for your business. It's going to be that light bulb moment like, I never even thought about doing it that way, or I never even thought about, maybe it's me, maybe I'm not an effective leader. Maybe I'm not listening to my contractors correctly. It's divided up into four different days of sessions. Day one is all about leadership and the fundamentals. Do people even understand what your business is? So clarifying your business's offer, delegation strategies for small business owners, how to have the right mindset as an entrepreneur, all of that is going to be about... Day one is all about just the fundamentals of your business. Day two is going to be all about building an audience. Maybe you say, Social media has just spent a waste of my time. I've never gotten a lead from it. I post to it. It's a waste of money and time. Well, that's what day two is going to be all about, how to build your audience, whether it's on social media, whether it's through a podcast as a business owner, podcast guesting, not even going online. How can you build out a network of your greatest referred serers. And that's one of the sessions as well as of building the audience. And then day three is content creation. So let's say TikTok is where you want to learn how to start posting more content, or Instagram, or why a podcast can be a content generating machine. Those are some of the topics for day three. And day four is sales. Okay, you've built out this audience, you've been emailing them, you have a content creation plan in place. Now how are you going to sell to them? And that's what we're going to talk about on day four. It's going to be absolutely... Like I said, I know that there's at least one session where it's going to be like, I didn't even think about it that way. That's a good point. Or Actionable. There's great workbooks from a lot of the speakers. Bob, you and I were talking before this. I'm really excited about it because a lot of the speakers that are at this event are people that I've been following for a while and that I know that they just pack a ton of value. I'm really excited about the speakers who have signed up to be a part of it. I know it's going to be a difference maker for people who are looking to grow their business this year and it should take them to that next... If they're at five figures, it's going to take you to six. If you're at six, it's going to take you to seven because we have all different sets of strategies from beginner to advanced at this event. I think I am really looking forward to Jeff Shea's session, how to turn your podcast into a content machine. That, for me, looks like a lot of fun. A lot of your speakers, it's difficult to underestimate how diverse and what's the other word I'm looking for? These are smart people. There's lots of people who are always trying to push their way to the front. These are the people that you would like to pull to the front. It's a really good group. And also, I know Jenny, who's on your team, helping put the with the summit together. I've been involved in summits that she's done before, and she has a fantastic way of engaging or facilitating real community through a summit. You as an attendee, you're not stuck on the back seat and you can't get to the front and engage with people. She's really good at bringing the participants and the attendees together in ways that really add a lot of value. So I'm looking forward to it a lot. Jenny does a fantastic job and I can imagine the two of you together. It's going to be amazing. Thank you. I was going to say just one more plug for Jenny. She's done over 300 of these virtual events. And so when I decided I wanted to do one, it was a no brainer to call her, but you can tell a Jenny Wright summit versus someone that's just used a template or something else. She is an absolute genius at making sure things run smoothly and like you said, building that community because it can be hard online. There is something to be said, you and I are going to be going to social media marketing world and it's great to go up and talk to people in real life and go grab lunch together. Sometimes people can feel like, Oh, well, I'm just watching a bunch of people online but she really does a good job of making it feel like you still have those type of opportunities to network and build relationships even though everyone's just connecting through their computer screen. I've been involved in her events both as an attendee and as a speaker. I have to say the value from both sides has been better than I've experienced on any other summit. Good luck with it. I'll be there in the cheap seats waving you on. I'm curious to know, you mentioned you decided to do a summit, and obviously we're talking about turning social media activity into value. And the summit is all about how can you get value out of social media. What was it that made you decide, Okay, now is the time for a virtual summit for Katie Brinkley? So my word for 2023, I don't know. Do you do a word, Bob? I don't. I do regret. Well, so this is the first year I'm actually going to stick with it because for the past two years, I've said I'm going to do a word, and by January first, I've already forgotten what that word is. Every single day, I have a sticky note right here on my computer and it says my word. My word is intention. I'm an enneagram 7, ADHD. I have a hard time of saying no. If I say no, what opportunities could I be missing? You never know what could happen. If you say yes, the opportunities are endless. I really struggle with saying no. But this is the thing is I have a habit of over committing myself. And so by having intention as my word of 2023, I know that everything I'm doing is maybe not instant gratification, but it's okay. I wanted to do this summit so that I can build my relationships with the speakers and I can provide value for people who have been listening to my podcast for years. The intention was behind it, and I knew it was a good plan for me to do as part of my business going forward. But I wasn't ready before. I wasn't ready to... This is a ton of work, and I didn't have the right mindset for it before. A year ago, I didn't have the right time strategy. As an entrepreneur, I feel like we have a tendency of over committing ourselves and thinking, oh, that'll take me an hour. In all reality, it takes you about four hours. It happens on a regular basis. One of the things that I had to do, I'm sure you're familiar with the toggle. It's a time tracking tool, it's free. And I tracked how long everything was taking me. And I wasn't delegating my own tasks effectively. And so I have the right systems, I have the right processes, I have the right people in place to make that next step happen. And I think with the intention behind the summit was to help me grow by learning how to step stepping out of my comfort zone. I mean, this is all new to me. But the intention also was to help others grow. I think that these are all people that, like I said, I've been following, I've been watching for years, and I've paid thousands of dollars to go see them speak on stages around the United States. And I think that what they brought to me when I was ready to take that step with my business three years ago, from being like side hustle to full blown business, it was a game changer for me. And I think that if you're ready to take that next step with your business, these are the people that can help you do it. And you just have to go into it with the intention of I'm not going to see instant gratification by posting to TikTok three times a week, right now. But a year from now, if I stay committed to it, the strategies that I learned at this summit, I've already gotten a few clients. I've already made networking connections. I've already done this. So yeah, that's a long winded answer, but. No, not at all. I think listening to that, there was a couple of things that popped into my head. One was, I think a lot of people are trying to do far too many things. And the most successful people I know, the wealthiest people I know, they've become that not by complication, but by simplification. They take things away, they don't add things, but they really focus in on the things that are in their zone of genius and that they love doing and that deliver results. I think an event like this can allow you to very quickly see the spectrum of opportunity, but also something's going to spark and say, This is my thing. And then by doing that one thing, the compound effect over time will build and you will become successful because you become good at it, you become consistent at it. I think that's where a lot of people fail, particularly in social media, is they never go deep enough into anything to get good at it. I don't know what your perspective is on that. Yeah. I mean, if you are comfortable, it means that you're not growing. For me, it's uncomfortable for me to go live. But you know what? The more I do it, the more comfortable I will feel. So once I start feeling comfortable with it, well, maybe I should try and live stream my podcast then, or maybe I should try... So there's always a sense of when you're sitting there feeling comfortable with your business or with what you're doing on social media, why? Because there's someone else out there that's doing something that you're not, and you can learn from them. I'm not saying to copy them or anything, but you have the opportunity to always be learning. And if you're just copying and pasting and just going through the motions, that's when your business is going to start to go on the downward slope because people are going to find someone else that's going to be offering this added feature or this different tool because somebody else is out there trying to get ahead. So never stop learning. Always try and find ways to stay a little bit on that cusp of comfortable but uncomfortable because there's so many different... The internet is amazing. The internet is an incredible tool and we have the opportunity to never stop learning and never stop growing. So I think that that's one of the biggest things that I would recommend doing is try to always make yourself feel a little bit uncomfortable with your business because that means you're always going to be growing. I absolutely agree. And I think that needs to be balanced with not chasing every squirrel. And. I think if you can get that balance right, you will be successful. I absolutely agree with you that it's almost like there's a pot of gold in a big patch of thorns and it replenishes every day. And for the person who's happy to climb through these thorns, they can have that pot of gold, but most people won't. And the more often you do that, the more immune you become to the thorns and the more successful you become, anything worth having lies on the other side of uncomfortable. That for me, after every podcast interview I've had, it's become really clear. And you've illustrated that, that your business will only grow when you grow. Any successful business owner now is not the person they were five or six years ago. If you're still the same person you were five or six years ago, you probably still have the same business you had five or six years ago. And that for me, I think, it really brings us full circle to, you've only been doing this for three years, yet I, in the backwoods of Scotland, know your name. And I think this is what I want people at home to take away. If you want somebody on the other side of the world to know who you are, it's actually easier than you would think. It just requires getting a little bit uncomfortable and staying there. And then you can have what other people don't have. And it's a wonderful thing. That's very eloquently put. Thank you, Bob. Well, sometimes I'm all right at this. So, Katie, I'm mindful of the time and I know you have another meeting at the top of the hour. So if people want to connect with you, if they want to go deeper with you, how can they do that? And what should they expect from you? What is a normal client for you? Well, I would love to have you attend Social Profit Lab. It's a free event happening February 21st through 24th of 2023. And you can go to socialprofitlab. Com to sign up. Again, it's free. That'd be a great way to connect with me. And like I said, the 40 speakers that will be at this event. But if you're listening and you want to just connect with me one on one, I'm on social media, so connect with me on Instagram. I'm at @iamcateybrinkley, and then I'm also very active over on LinkedIn. You can find me there at Katie Brinkley. But yeah, I think that for me, like I said, I have a mastermind. If you're looking to have continued support around growing your business online through social media, email, video techniques, YouTube, all the things that go into online marketing, I encourage you to reach out to me and I'd be happy to see if you're a fit for our Mastermind. Well, thank you very much for your time, Katie. Before I say goodbye, what's one thing you do now that you wish it started five years ago? The one thing that I do now that I wish I would have started five years ago is showing my face. And as I said earlier, there's a reason I went into radio. It was hard. And I didn't do it for a very long time. I still feel like I'm super awkward on camera. I'm uncomfortable. But again, it's where I know I'm growing, and it's helped me be willing to press go live. It's helped me be willing to show up on stories or whatever as I'm walking out of the office. So make yourself uncomfortable, show your face because people want to do business with people. And there's only so much that you can do on social media with stock images, with pretty graphics. It's only going to get you so far. When you show up and show your face, that's what's going to move the needle. That is a fantastic answer. So that brings us to the end of another episode. Thank you to you for listening. And if you did enjoy the show, then I would gently encourage you to leave a five star review. That's one, two, three, four, five, not two or one or anything like that. And share the show with just one person. If you did enjoy the show, then you will also love the Personal Brand Business roadmap. It's 100 % free as a gift from me and it's 50 pages, 50 of everything you'll need to start scale or just fix your expert business. You can click on the link in the show notes or visit amplifyme. Agency roadmap. Thanks again for your time, Katie. You've been awesome. I've been average. Thanks at home for watching or listening and see you next week.