Are you struggling to break through online? Feeling like you’re posting content regularly but nobody is listening? It’s a very common experience. Some try to fix this by turning to quantity, turning to social media planners and posting about international pancake day and so on. Volume isn’t the answer. Some try creating complicated or clever content - but that doesn’t work either.
In this episode Pascal Fintoni share the three qualities all great content marketers have in common. It’s a very simple lesson which could quickly change your results. I loved speaking to Pascal and I know you’re going to love listening to him.
Pascal Fintoni is a professional trainer and speaker with over 25 years practical experience in digital marketing, Pascal has worked across diverse industry sectors developing and implementing audience engagement campaigns.
Pascal is also a video producer and he has introduced many of the storytelling techniques used by filmmakers into his coaching to help his clients create great online reputations. His focus for the last few years has been to guide business owners on how to take back control of their digital communications and become the most trusted brand in their chosen markets.
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Automatic Show Transcript
Are you struggling to break through online? feeling like you're posting content regularly, but nobody's listening? It's a very common experience. So I'm trying to fix this by turning up the quantity turning into social media planners and posting about international pancake and all the other things that live on social media planners that everybody else is using. Volume isn't the answer. So I'm try creating complicated or clever content. But that doesn't work either. And this episode, Pascale Fantoni shares three qualities all great content marketers have in common. It's a very simple lesson, which could quickly change your results. I love speaking to Pascal and I know you're gonna love listening to him too. Hi there and welcome back to amplify the digital marketing entrepreneur podcast. I'm Bob Gentle, and every week I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. If you're new to the show, then take a second right now to subscribe on your podcast player so you don't miss a new episode.
So it's, and you can dig in to some older ones when you finished with this one. Don't forget to join our Facebook community, just visit the shortcut URL amplify me.fm forward slash insiders, and you'll be taken along. So welcome along. And let's meet Pascal.
So this week I'm delighted to welcome Pascal Finn, Tony to the show. I got that right, Pascal, Finn, Tony, you do? Yes. Let's go Do you want to maybe just introduce who you are, where you are and the kind of work you do? Well, thanks again for the invitation. Bob really appreciate spending some time with you and your listeners. So I am a trainer, consultant, and speaker and I take great pleasure in helping business owners get my inquiries from the web. I've been involved in the world with a world of digital for nearly 25 years now, which feels a very, very long time. And a typical week for me is spent either speaking at events, being doing some in house
Coaching on a one to one or one to a few basis, as well as on occasion taking part in training programs for the UK government, but at the heart of it, what I do is help people to use their time very wisely when it comes to using online marketing activities in particular, and so that they get more sales and help populate the the sales funnel. And also I feel very fortunate they've been able to weave into my delivery, my approach, my passion for filmmaking and storytelling. So this is a good time for me at the moment with the rise in video consumption, and of course production. I think if I'm honest, the reason you're sitting on that chair is the way that you captivated me with your presentation that Chris Tucker's you printer summit. I think there were lots of very big names there. But for me, it the tech and the tactics are quite easy. Where I personally struggle and I think a lot of people struggle is
With video and video marketing and actually allowing themselves to be themselves, very, very difficult, and the way that you brought that up, really printer summit was for me, really, really engaging. I loved it. Well, thanks very much. And, you know, I felt it was actually quite a risky angle that I took, you know, in doing that summit, because I went in, as you will recall straddling two storytelling techniques used by filmmakers, and how they can translate over to the world of business and video marketing. And I did wonder whether or not I've gone too far to my you know, what I deemed to be my passion, although now it's become part of my profession as well. And the feedback has been just so so good and so positive. That is for this year, and I'm making the point we're building on it in terms of workshops and residential sessions and so on and so forth. Hmm, that's that's really good idea.
can only imagine you'll have great take up on that. Because it is, as you said, it's so now, I had Brian fans on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. And he was telling me that Cisco who know about the internet because they pretty much run it are saying that 80% of traffic this year on on on the internet, in total is video content being consumed. There just isn't enough video content It doesn't matter what you think there is an insatiable demand for video. I think you know, the, the figures are also we feel aligned that consumption to the impact in terms of credibility and trust, you can build through video content. And sometimes a video message can be very, very simple and far far outweigh what you could achieve from the reputation management with the original form and the static images. Now my position as you know, Bob is to do all of all form of media
Yeah, as an organization as an individual or whichever you have to, you know, write well for the web, you have to create visuals that are engaging. And then you have to look into podcasting and video. But where it gets exciting for me is the decision you make in terms of your version of those labels, you know, the 10 podcast, and how you go about it or the 10, video production, video marketing or YouTube, how you decide to go about as an individual as professional is where I think is still ought to be played for in over the next few years. I think as is often the case in the world of digital, we go through a phase of learning how to use the tools of the time, but in the process, everything we produce is pretty much the same everybody else is quite bland. Sometime actually because we believe that others have got it right. We look at what they get up to. And then we emulate them sometime because we want to show jus respect and and given tons
Where the inspirations come from. But the real kind of art and science of media production is to discover your true voice, and what motivates you as a professional. And this is where my word becomes more interesting. So, I hope you'll forgive me, Bob, but I can't get excited if someone says to me, show me how to use YouTube or how to not to use an app or a camera. If you say to me, show me how to discover the stories that I should tell. And both of those stories will connect and will help you build your brand, your audience and down the line help your your bank balance, then I think that's where that the word becomes really interesting. But ultimately, we know we have to be patient. And I'm not saying to you and your audience, that we should not go through the learning phase of trying it out and ultimately creating content which is very similar to others, but look forward to the maturation process of becoming a very unique author and and at top of which then they
For your evergreen content, your legacy will kind of last not just for your new business, but think about all your children, your nephews, your parents, your, you know, your family, your neighbors, and so on sinking, you know, do you know what? I'm so incredibly proud of what you've done. I had no idea. This is what you did. Because you know, back to your point about video, I've spent years doing what I've done as you have, and I've got friends who don't really understand what I do, but wants to watch a couple of videos ago, I think I got it. Now. You're the guy that does this. And on the other side, I think in terms of the impact on others through the video form. I'm a huge fan that you can tell and you know it but I think it's also down to this is a good time for what I'm going to call professional self expression. Being the professional and the coach to the practitioner that you need to be before the world to have to discover that with you. I think that's really exciting.
Hmm, no, I think that's a really, really interesting perspective. Something you said right at the beginning was, you don't want to talk about how to set up YouTube or any specific tactic, but how to uncover their own stories. And I know that you lead workshops, where this is a topic isn't so what is a workshop where you're helping people uncover their stories look like what tools or tactics or frameworks are there that you would employ in that kind of situation. So, I go through this kind of stages with there's an evolution is lacking in your skills on your mindset, you break it down. That's been honestly one of the really interesting part of my role from being a practitioner and employee during the digital stuff to being someone that had to tell others in advice to reflect on what you do, what you do and how you do it, but also come up with memorable
And steps and so on and so forth. And so what I explained to people is that at the heart of it, when you want to discover who you are as an author, you have to go on a bit of a journey. And the journey being begins by showing the qualities that will help you build your business and they are, in my view, three qualities should have one you should be curious. And that being curious, you are essentially going to take on the role of a journalist or researcher investigator on behalf of your audience, and going to be exploring facets of professional life or life in general, you're gonna be exploring challenges. Your customers are kind of facing, not necessarily with an answer ready made, but saying, you know, I've heard enough, I've seen enough
to know that this is of importance to you, therefore, on your behalf, I'm gonna look this up, and I'm either going to do it solo, I'm going to have maybe no guests.
sessions. So I'm going to read books, whatever it may be, but trust me, I will come back to you and report my findings. And the reason why you want to do that is that all too often, again, my customers want to produce the kind of content that they've seen others do. But what they've forgotten is that the reason why that content is hitting the mark. And the reason why that content is engaged, is because those authors and producers spend the last five to five to 10 years discovering who they are. And, and therefore you have to be kind of honest with yourself and embrace that journey as you begin that begin by being curious. So and this by the way, it could be a podcast, of course, it could be a blog series, but you're going to go deep, and you're going to really investigate something thoroughly.
Once you've done that, and you've produced the kind of videos that we can discuss in a moment, then the next quality is to be helpful. So you've explored
Challenge, you've explored a situation that is causing maybe an audience to want to adapt or change. And you've reported back on your findings in the process, it is likely that you've learned some techniques to therefore, face up to that challenge or to address that challenge, then you can start to move into the sharing of that techniques or becoming more of a of a of a tutor, if you will. And the being helpful is a wonderful quality that needs to be shared, I think more often than it is currently. And there's a difference between being helpful and being knowledgeable and competent. Because when you aren't helpful, you really want to demonstrate that you're driven by, I would say, more customer care than marketing. I think Unfortunately, because of the world of YouTube, and because of some of the bigger brands are trying their very, very best. The impression that I think we've inherited all of us as professionals is that to be trusted and the number one form of video marketing
To tell people how to do something, and to turn to turn into some form of lecture and so on. And and I think that's a little short sighted. And I think there's a better way to go about it. When you are helpful, not only do you tell people the options available to them, and you can show share, of course, your favorite option, but you also want to warn them about what I call the less alternatives and therefore give a more rounded view about, you know, the options and the world out there. I always say No, nobody cares what an expert would do. Because we're never going to be an expert. You know, we're not going to be as good as the person who watching or listening to, because guess what, that's not our chosen profession, or career path. So we're going to be curious to begin with, I'm going to be quite humble. We're going to be helpful in a very caring way. And then the final quality you want to show is to be present and tactically what you've done both
Being curious and being helpful is you created a wealth of content, but you also created an audience. And that audience will start to become I would suggest to you fans and big supporters and I think are just reward for that support is to be present and start to engage life or to engage through webinars or that kind of things, but essentially upgrade the relationship from passive consumption to interactive consumption. So be curious, be helpful, and be present is a journey. During that journey, which may take several weeks, month or years, you will discover who you are as an author I can guaranteed and the work you're going to be producing, are going to be producing would be far more rewarding and fun, enjoyable, and you will discover so much more about yourself and the world you operate within from the business point of view than if you were to do some how tos on YouTube.
That for me, is one of the most
insightful explanations or perspectives rather, on how to show up, basically, I think for some people, it's that they don't need that. They just need to be told, go and do it. There are other personality types that need to understand why. And they need to know that there's a journey they're going on and a very vague idea of what that journey looks like. And for me, the journey you outlined there is very much aligned with how I personally want to do things. It's why the podcast exists. But it's also I have, I have struggled hard to get to a very similar place to the one you describe. And, you know, for me, it's quite exciting. And I think what you described as the present, really the combination of that is community. And if you build a community and then you never show up in it, that's quite disrespectful and a lot of ways I guess, but how you show up, really matters that you don't sort of pile in
Just say, Okay, now you're here, give me your money, but that you continue to do the things that you've already done. And you continue that integrity, because I think often people lose sight of the integrity once the audience has built. Yes, and I think, you know, you and I can reflect on the many many kind of articles and videos and podcasts for them that from well intentioned experts about monetization or converting in conversion ratios and so on. And and there's, you must, of course, build a business, you must, of course, populate your sales funnel and so on and so forth. But if your question, the question asked me, Bob is, how do you discover who you are as an author, so that you have years and years of joy as a content producer, as opposed to being a content marketer, which is what I think you know, sometimes where the difference will lie. I'm not interested in helping somebody get a task off the desk as quickly as possible. I'm only really interested because I don't think that
This is what this is about. If you've chosen to be your own boss, for that matter, or if you've chosen a career in communications and you are an employee, ultimately your role is to educate and inform people that there is a form of communication, which is vastly superior to what is hitting the headlines typically. But more importantly, if this is your chosen career, and you're looking at the next 1020 3040 years of professional activity, you better find something that's going to keep you smiling every every day. Because if it's literally how can I what is the fastest way for me to blast 1000 emails? What is the quickest way for me to get videos on Facebook? If this is only what is motivating you? whilst maybe occasionally it can be room for that. It's no longer you're not going to last. What I mean by that is you're going to burn out as professional because you're gonna say, this is not fun at all. This is not rewarding. I'm not growing or develop
myself at all here, time to change. And I think that's a pity because why would say that, of course in your presence Bob, but I think if there is one medium that is really really rewarding from the planning to production to, to publication, so on, it has to be the world of moving images and sound. And if you've chosen to use video to help your customers to help a business and so on, why don't you actually apply yourself in a way that are supported in industry for over a century, as opposed to the way in which it's been done? Recently, what I mean by that is compare the world of moving images and sound, which is over a century to that they ended up which is only been 2030 years, depending where you look at it. I just know where I'm going to find my motivation and inspiration from Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense.
For me, I think there's a contrast between how accessible the world video is
Both in terms of consumer, but also in terms of the barrier to entry is become very, very low and from a technical and creative level. But there is a very high barrier of entry for a large number of people on an a mental and an emotional level. And how much does that come into your work? It does a lot. So we mentioned a moment ago, of course, one of the techniques they use about the qualities you want to show, be curious, be helpful, be present. And then other episodes we have to do is this idea of any simple one, and I use a flip chart and a half smiley face and an unhappy face to columns. And then working groups people couldn't post it's what they look forward to, when it comes to becoming a video content producer, no matter where there's short form, long form, but what is it that they are concerned about and very quickly, that column where the unhappy face is gets busy and very often as you can appreciate
You're listening as well as well. It's around personal appearance, the sound of your voice and your ability to craft the story to editors when as well. So there's a whole gamut of things and I tackle them head on, because I think it's very helpful to not deny people the a the expression of those anxieties and concerns, but also to explain to them why a they are
warranted and, and, and etc. You're absolutely entitled to feel nervous about what you're describing. But let me explain to you why you should and why it's only normal that you should so WebDriver said to you Barbies that people feel guilty about the feelings they have about something that is very natural to feel that way. And I'll tell you that if I have a long break from being on camera, I'll get nervous again. It's a bit like you know, stopping go to the gym or going off your you know, healthy diet or whatever.
And what I've said to them is, so what do we do about it? What do we kind of how we address that? And what we say is, you're nervous because you care, you're nervous, because you want to get it right for your audience you nervous, because, you know, ultimately, you don't want to let people down and maybe a public auction team and so on. So so we're going to address them one by one and see what do we do about it? So let's look at any business decision. And I do have I hope you don't mind me being that direct. But I do have some slides in my workshop about personal appearance. And I've gone ahead and I've gotten on full screen sometimes it's quite nice when it's on the big venue, but I have a photography of what would be deemed to be an attractive actors and actresses, who have had wonderful careers in the world of cinema, from the US to Europe and and more and
What I say to them is, you know, so what, how do you explain that and you kind of go, but they are, they are amazing performers. But But well, they're always like that, not that they had to learn. So maybe what they had to do was to have maybe a bit paths, or they were literally walking in the background, and then it was a bit longer and there was an evolution, and then they they spoke one line, then two, then 10, then it was much, much longer. So I said, you know, maybe we should take a hint from that, and maybe your next, you know, effort should be that. With respect, you're part of the production team, but you're not the voice and face of the video. But then next time, maybe you'll have a bit more to do and then next time you'll do a bit more. Perhaps your journey is to be a guest on webinars, but not to be the host to take the the kind of your fear of technology at a play. So you really deal with those as you would with any kind of business risk or business consideration. But what is
Interesting is, and this is why I still to this day do group session is in person, they will said to me should do more online. Steve, there's power in being the same room is the discover that the 10 2030 people in the room have the same feelings too. And therefore my reaction said told you was normal. And therefore don't feel the need to exclude yourself from the world of video and sound production. Because of those anxieties. Because guess what, that's exactly the way it should be. And if you and your listeners were to take the trouble to watch any of the interviews of famous actors and directors for that matter, they are all over YouTube now. They will tell you all of them that they are nervous every single day they walk on stage on set. So it's the norm. So that's that that makes a lot of sense. I was speaking to Andy storage yesterday. I think you know, Andy,
Obviously, listeners 190. But if the podcasts come in order, you probably will know by No. He's a very charismatic, confident looking person. And one of the things he said to me was, the only reason people know you're nervous is because you tell them you're nervous, or you're using nervous behaviors. So it just control your nervous behaviors, and no one will know unless you tell them. I think there's a lot of parallels with the kind of thing you were talking about there with actors. They don't look nervous, but you can't see somebody else's inside look quite yet. And, and to me, so it's been to help them normalize and, and kind of recognize that, to feel that to feel where they are or to have those misgivings is not a sign of forthcoming failure. It's not so I think we'll make people we're making the link between because I'm nervous because I don't like the sound of my own voice because I don't understand how the tech bit equal, I'm not going to be good at it.
And and they were therefore to kind of tackle that head on. So once we've done that, then we can start to get into the exciting stuff or planning for the future looking for the video series, the MapReduce, or even the work all the one shot wonders, which is the one short film that kind of sets the tone for the business that can become the one evergreen content that they do. But we also clearly talk about what is sensible within time budget limitations, but we also talk about this idea of don't feel obligated to follow the trend is currently in place within your your sector. So if I use a world of digital again, if you allow me and again, many people said to me, why don't you have, again, how to videos on the number things why don't you do reviews of apps to edit when should you actually do a tour of different cameras and that kind of things.
My reaction to them is because I don't feel like it.
And it's because of back to self awareness also because but also saying, so the reason why I would do it then is because I feel obligated as a active participant in the world of digital and video. But there is absolutely no motivation to do it. Because when I was reflecting on that I was I met with them, Roger Edwards as well. And Richard Tubb recently, was still played back in Siena. I hope that not being two presses a bit empty when I essentially don't do this type of video content. And the gentleman said no, but equally if you tried you would you would fail because there's no story in it for you. And it was remarkable that they almost understood me better than I was understood myself, which is the reason why wasn't just that this feeling of kind of, you know, boredom that it was
Kind of washed over me just at the thought of doing it is because I would be terrible at it which I think is a better answer to give you which is because of my my authoring and my talent is in a particular way, trying to meet the specific obligation my industry to do the kind of videos that we see a lot more in the world of digital, which means that they will probably be quite poor. Hence, then I will feel terrible about it. And then a bit of myself some better off actually continuing the work that I favor, which is more to do with my suppose talent and storytelling, kind of preference, and lead authors do an amazing job. And guess what, I will find those videos I will share those videos and praise them as author and in a process build a community of authors where we all have different talents, but we all support each other and get inspiration from each other. I really, really like that and I think
The approach that you take that you described for video content, particularly the curiosity, the helpfulness and the presenting, or being present, rather, roll that back into the written word, roll that back into the social media post. It really elevates everything, and you don't see it very often. And I think the reason I focus with you so much on video content, is because it's emotionally it's the most difficult for a lot of people. Technically, it's quite difficult. Logistically, there's so many moving parts, but it's also so current. And obviously, it's on trend if you like. But like you said at the beginning, coming back to the written word, the social media, post, the static image, take everything you've described there and bring it back. And your content will stand out. miles, which is a really interesting way of looking at it. I'm quite excited because I work like you with groups and I have frameworks for helping them develop content ideas.
Because this is new for me, and I'm really excited by this, I thank you very much. And again, I would argue that these steps and systems and frameworks came to me, because I was challenged by my own, that my very own customers, I'm sure you can relate to that. So I'm always very grateful. And that's why I still to this day, will do a lot of in person events and work because I grow myself and improve mcnown services. But it's when you observe and you know, the situation you've been in where you've explained something and certainly people have understood what you've said, but they've not been able to internalize it to the point where they're going to take action and and incredibly self critical always kind of drive back thinking about this Pascal, maybe you could be better or what was it that didn't work on this occasion. So always kind of look into ways to further improve the positive impact I can have. And I would say that with video as an interesting
To you, I was always a little hesitant thinking. And I really pushing my luck here to bring the world of film filmmaking and storytelling into digital. But then looking back, it sounds a little silly to me so hesitant bear in mind what's happening with the world of Netflix Disney plus amazon prime, the way in which you know, broadband is now used primarily to consume video and sound content as opposed to anything else. And back to the the numbers again, as I began earlier, this conversation, if you if you bother to look at things like trust, credibility, conversions, and so on, so forth. video content supports that and but what is not required and I'd like to make sure that our listeners you listen to understand that it is not a requirement for any one of you to be in front of the camera. But it is a requirement for you to tell stories in a way that engage people and those are many, just watch a
And documentary for example, apart from the key messengers, you will not see any of the producers or directors and so on and so forth. And so I think part of what I try and do now is use a lot more examples from you could say the world of entertainment stroke media stroke, you know, film and documentary have moved away in my session from showing example from the YouTube because to me, surely they don't really serve my purpose in terms of building someone's confidence and building a helping them build their brand. So I will say for example, if you really want to understand how to run a YouTube channel, pay attention, for example of the the programming of Channel Four, channel five for us in the UK. And look at what they do. They have different different kind of
bit of content for different days of the week and different times of the day. That's programming. So a YouTube channel for me
is essentially a very accessible way of creating your own channel. But learn from those who've been doing it a lot longer than the web has been around
for podcasting in I would say, because that I'm a big, big fan. I'm not a producer, but I'm a huge consumer. And big supporter of what you guys do is if you really want to understand
podcasting for yourself as a host, co host producer, pay attention to radio and radio stations and how they go about engaging their audiences. I have an exercise where we literally go online and look at what BBC Radio four is up to weekly. And we see the programming you can see the decision they've made to engage different agencies for different reasons, different times of day in different days of the week, and it's truly inspiring. That's, I think, where we need to go as consultants, professionals, whether we're going to be producers
Or are the advisors for those who producers say the source of inspiration is to be found where the craft in people have paid their dues has taken place for much, much longer. And when you go on YouTube, look at others when you look at maybe stitcher or Spotify, look what others are doing. This is my inspiration. This is intimidation. And, and my role therefore is to take them away In fact, and Bob when I work with my customers, we have a deal from a we do a long term program will work together for many weeks, many months. So whilst you work with me, for the duration of our work together, I forbid you to look at the competition. You're not alone. For the time we were together and we're going to connect with you as an author. Like you Bobby and I helped them come up with a content series and and get excited again. I forbid you to look at a competition because that's
not helpful the work that we're trying to do here.
Again that is a really smart idea because comparison is paralyzing a lot of the time. It doesn't matter if what you're comparing with is good or bad. It just has this paralyzing effect and traces you also to them you know, we started work where you told me they didn't have that much time. You could you could barely appeared you know, just joking, Joking aside. So how do you find the time to look at the competition all the time? I'd find the time to look at all those and be truthful. How does it feel after you spent X amount of time on someone's website, social media platform YouTube channel? Do you feel great about it? And usually the answer is no. So I realized much later on that I was bringing also a bit of calm into, you know what they were doing by thinking, you know what, there's nothing wrong with thinking about ourselves first, and not paying that much attention to you know what's happening out there. We can go back to it much much later. But
For now, we're about to build a new strategy we were about to build a new mindset that's going to, we're going to feel re energized about it in terms of content production, it's not going to be a task anymore. It's gonna be something that we look forward to. I was sitting out to my customers, imagine that it's Friday night, you're tired and you're hungry. And yet you had to produce some amazing content.
You better find something that you enjoy doing. Because otherwise, it's not going to it's going to work for you. Now very lucky, of course, you know, I found video moving images and sound and I found or I've managed to suddenly reassure myself and carve my nerves about this idea of connecting with who I am as an author. And it's worked well for me and I take pleasure in sharing that for others, hoping they're in the process they can find their own way and their own true voice because I think when it comes to supporting your customers, and building a business customers
would be so much more grateful if the discover who you truly are through content consumption, then consuming content and then having a meeting with your thinking. That's bizarre, that's not the same person that I thought would meet or, or if anything, you know, potentially meeting you is so much better than your content, because clearly, all you're doing is just following the trend and producing content that others have told you to do. Or that may be unkind. you produce content because you did some very clever keyword research. Yeah, no, that's overall, you've given an absolute goldmine of strategy, tactics and inspiration has been just so good. But what I would like to maybe pivot onto a little bit for the time we've got left on some of it is actually what your business looks like. And, in particular, there's a few places electrical, but maybe we start with what does a typical customer actually look like for you.
So a typical customer
So that's interesting because I've always been longing to have a niche. Because, again, I've read enough and I had enough to know that they would have some immense benefit for my business. But so happens that I've been able to work across pretty much all sectors in my career, both as an employee, and self employed and so on. But typical customer would be, probably the director, or the director of the business or a senior decision maker is actually investing in their team or their own process. And they want to vastly improve the performance of their sales, particularly the conversion of our proposals or the conversion on your meetings and that kind of things. And they appreciate that we live in a time now where people can check you out before even talking to you and then a process form an opinion about whether or not you're worthy consideration as a supplier. So we're
across, you know sectors like manufacturing and creative, hospitality, travel, you know, you name it, where first impressions still matter a great deal. So, so we talked, we know we work on a program like this, but very often, it's
because you've asked about the ideal customer. And so for me is that a senior decision maker is behind it. I've had situation where and contacted by perhaps just the marketing marketing individual or just for a bit of training, and that tends to be a very kind of short lived affair. And there's no continuation and doesn't suit me so well, because I think that the world says a marketing is quite complex, not complicated. It's complex, made of many elements. There's evolutions of market and buying behavior and so on. And I'd like to be able to support organizations over a long period of time. And so does that answer your question? It does, it does. I mean, I can
have thought that you weren't in a very, very tight niche. And actually, I don't believe everybody does need a very tight niche. I think what you bring is actually very niche in a lot of ways. It's true, but it's still, you know, when I meet many people out there talk to them.
I feel like if I had a niche, which I don't, I'd be able to explain what I do better or make it more relevant. But what I do, therefore is focus on the problem of the challenge and the challenge being you want to improve the audiobook or you want to improve conversion of your sales activities, and so on and so forth. And therefore, together, we can design a sales funnel, where there's a customer journey, driven by content, but we also find ways to showcase qualities which is so very often the word I do people have worked very hard to demonstrate to the world that they are very competent, but I tried to explain that
That's not sufficient for a customer to choose you, you have to show you're very caring as well. And therefore the be curious, be helpful, be present tend to play to that.
And obviously, I've done a little bit of research and you're working typically with groups. Is that right is going to Yes. But I noticed also you do some one to one work and I'm wondering, is that a large feature in what you do? It's, it's becoming increasingly so so so that so the one to one as ever, like you've done the you listeners have done was a reaction to request from the from the market because up to that point, I was either speaking at events I was doing in house training, coaching for teams, so I was several people, or I'll be delivering training programs on behalf of UK Government across different regions. And out of that can the request for more personalized support and service, but one where it was almost as in when it was needed, so
So the way it's working now is I have clients who are on this program where they are milestones in terms of their learning and development and so on. But they are done through video conferencing. Zoom is what is one of many that that we use. And for nine and a half to two hours, we have quite a high impact fast paced session where the debate of a show and tell if it's, you know, been going on for a while, but what's been happening since the last session on their content, efforts, lessons learnt and so on. Then they will move on to do some topic coaching or maybe introduce a new technique, or perhaps there's something in the marketplace that want them to know now, and then we agree actions for next sessions, and then we book the following one, depending on which service they've gone for. In between sessions. Then there's also phone calls and email support. If they come in, they have a chance they want to deal with and so on. But that's now becoming I would say it started decreasing
But we'd say it's a good 25% of what I do now with my time.
That's that, that makes sense. I have three places I'd like to go. So that's okay. We're kind of on time, which is fine. One thing I'm always curious about is particularly so with you is, most people receive their inbound opportunity through one of a very small number of places. It's either referral, or it's inbound through their content marketing, or its outbound proactive sales activity, or it's driven through as it's typically. So of those four, what's the main driver for you?
So for me, it will be still to this day and he surprises me because bear in mind what I do and the way in which I introduce, you know, the activities, but networking and being a guest speaker
at small, intimate events, to this day is done number one, and I'm surprised by it into a point. And then secondly is still surprised, and I shouldn't be the father, people will discover my content and react to it positively. I'm only surprised. What I mean by that is I'm not anxious about conversion rates. So I do the content that I believe is matching my talents as an author, and is matching the needs of the time that I kind of let it
do what it needs to do. And the individuals who've been in touch, particularly through LinkedIn for me, and more so we've said, I've seen this I've read this and it kind of resonated can we can we have a chat, as is two things and then because of my involvement with the UK government do of course
Go through the tendering process. So then I will pitch, if you will, for contracts. And I've got to a point now because of track record and the way in which I know how to design training programs, where I have some success, or there'll be the three ways in which will
a world kind of apply myself from lead generation point of view? Yeah. And my next question is, within the broad spectrum of your business, what do you actually struggle with the most
is two things really.
I'm far too self critical. I don't give myself enough. I think credit and that's where the mastermind groups that I join, and my wife and friends and family are very important. And I don't know what to do about it, you know, because you think I've been active for 25 years, everyone in my own business since 2011. And an awful really so now, I couldn't
I could deliver a session or whatever, I would spend the rest of the drive back home, give myself a hard time for what could have gone better. So I need to find a way to to improve that. And I think really the one thing I struggle with, and I wish somehow had just to be more time on my own marketing or sales activities. Yeah. And totally relate to that. Yeah. Because I think two things, I would enjoy the process. I know I would, but it's one of those where I had a nasty burnout phase in 2009. So and I've learned from that, so I know that yes, I suppose I could do a couple extra hours tonight, and therefore do the marketing and sales bit, but I still have this memory of burning 2009. So I said so Pascal, but the contract, if you were an employee, he wouldn't do it. So the contract is you stop
Now, and so bit you didn't get to that tweet today, and tomorrow is another day. Okay, well, I've broken up with that question. So I need to build you up again. So what do you what are your big ambitions for business? What are you working on right now? What are you excited about? So two things I'm excited about is to relaunch the video q&a series that I had a few months ago, is called grandly the content marketing studio. And what I do there is I invite people to join me and talk about their own content creation efforts, from book authors to play right to TV producers, and so on. So I'm looking at the whole form of content, because again, back to this idea of inspiration. So if you listen to how a novelist not approaches, right in their, their books, you might learn something for your blog post and vice versa. So if you allow me actually that this also becomes an open invitation to your listeners, it's
If you are content creators, whether you're starting or kind of have a few years under your belt like Bob and I, please do get in touch, we'd like to be a guest. In the process, you might learn a thing or two about video production, so on, but also to have a great chat. So that's got me excited again, as you can tell, and secondly, as part of my business, I'm opening a coaching business in France. And now I'm sure that by now people have detected by the accent or the name that I'm not a native of Canada, although I love living here. I left from 30 years ago, as I was still studying English at the time. The plan was to be an English teacher back in France, but I loved my time, so much when I was there that I stayed. Originally, I told my parents I was staying for another year, and I was 30 years ago.
And I still go back to France for more holidays, but recently have had some queries from France.
business owners who would like to know actually more advanced form of online marketing. And so I'm building a coaching business. So I'm going to have a French office which is really quite exciting and all to what a moment ago was saying to you and I wish I had a niche well, and might be able to pull this off because when I'm in France or for my coaching business in France, which will be based in nantan, Brittany, I'm going to only specialize in supporting French exporters. So French companies who wish to export more successfully to the UK and other English speaking countries and want to use digital and video better or one in a way that will meeting on the sensitivities and preferences of a British audience. Then will be there, their consultant and coach so that's really 20
That sounds very exciting. Pascal, you have been in a fantastic and very generous guest. I've really got a lot out of it. I have pages of notes here.
If people want to connect with you, how would you like them to do that? So the good thing about a name like mine, Pascal, Finn, Tony, you can't really hide on the internet. And so literally you can google pascaline Tony and find micro details there. But I I'm very active on LinkedIn. So people can connect me through there. And also check the website, check the video blog. And if you like the style of the Q and A's and like to be a guest and do get in touch, but yet LinkedIn is a great way to get in touch with me. Okay, and I have to finish on the signature question. I'm getting really good at remembering. And that is, what's one thing you do now that you wish you'd started five years ago?
I think five years ago, so that would take us 2015
I would have texted
initiative and maybe making much much clearer about how you can work with me.
You know, if I look back,
it was more of a open invitation onto the loose and vague labels of training and coaching. And you know, and I think now I am much, much better putting packages together and programs and making clear a happier can work with, including, for example, the conversation we had about online coaching through the likes of zoom and Skype and so on. So I five years ago, our thinking had been of great benefit to my business, taking the initiative and put the packages to be much clearer as opposed to inviting an audience to essentially work out for themselves, how they could work with me. So product ization, yes. Yeah, I think so. No, that's a great answer. And yeah, I hope people will pay attention to that.
Pascal, you've been a brilliant guest, thank you so much for your time. I really can't wait to speak to you
Are you going to be in Newcastle? In April? I will be yes. Yes. I hope to see you there. Yes, I'll see you there. So anybody who's listening doesn't know what I'm talking about is the atomic con conference. You need to be there, but it's probably too late if you don't have a ticket probably isn't. Thank you very much, Pascal. You're very welcome.
Pascal said sounds easy. That's because on a practical level, it really is. But on the other hand, most people experience a lot of internal resistance to sharing their own curiosity online. Instead, thinking they need to demonstrate knowledge first. Take people on your own learning journey, and they will love you for it. Before we go, just a quick reminder to subscribe and if you haven't already to join our Facebook group. You can find a link on the show notes or just head to amplify me.fm forward slash insiders. I would love for you to connect with me on social media. Follow me wherever you are. At Bob Gentle
If you do then message me so I know I can follow you back. If you enjoyed the show then I would love for you to review on iTunes. It means a lot to me and it's the very best way to help me reach more subscribers. My name is Bob Gentle. Thanks again to Pascal for giving us his time this week, and to you for listening and see you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai