Why most lead magnets fail and how to fix it, with Teresa Heath Wareing


For many people just becoming visible online is a challenge. But once you've got that nailed down how do you turn that into a business? How do you navigate the complex world of funnels, lead magnets, ads and webinars.

This week my guest is the funnel queen Teresa Heath Waring and she's going to walk me through all of this and some simple tips anyone can use to start on the lead generation journey.

About Teresa

Award winning International speaker, TEDx speaker, trainer, podcaster and business owner, Teresa works with businesses, entrepreneurs and marketers to help them enhance their digital marketing & social media efforts.

She is recognised alongside some of the world’s social media & digital marketing thought leaders and is widely regarded as one of the UK's leading marketing influencers. 

Teresa has spent the last 16 years in Marketing working with international brands such as Land Rover, Jaguar, Rightmove and Leadpages. 

She speaks and trains entrepreneurs all over the world. As well as in her online membership - The Marketing that Converts Academy.  

Teresa hosts a popular weekly podcast called ‘Marketing that Converts’ and has interviewed the likes of Amy Porterfield, Pat Flynn, Michael Hyatt, Jasmine Star, James Wedmore, Mike Stelzner and Dean Graziosi.

Links and mentions

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Automatic Audio Transcription

For many people, just becoming visible online is a challenge, but once you've got that nailed down, how do you turn that into a business? How do you navigate the complex world of funnels, lead magnets, ads and webinars? This week, my guest is the funnel queen Theresa Heath wearing. And she's going to walk me through all of this and some simple tips anyone can use to start on the lead generation journey. Hi there. And welcome back to Amplify the Digital Marketing Entrepreneur podcast.

I'm Bob Gentle. And every Monday I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. So if you're new to the show, then take a second right now to subscribe. That way you won't miss new episodes and you can grab some older ones when you're done with this one. Don't forget as well, you can join my Facebook community. Just visit up by me dot EFM forward slash insiders and you'll be taken right there. So welcome along.

And let's meet Theresa. So this week, I am thrilled to welcome Teresa Heath wearing to show Theresa has been on my list for over a year. So I'm really excited to finally get to spend some time with you, Theresa.

Oh, I'm really looking forward to it. Thank you so much for having me.

So for anyone who doesn't know who you are, why don't you start just by introducing a little bit about who you are, where you are and the kind of work you normally do?

Sure thing. So I am a social media and digital marketing consultant, trainer and international speaker.

I am based in the fairly rural ish part of England in Shropshire, and basically I help entrepreneurs and business owners all over the world better market themselves and market and grow their online products through teaching them in my academy and through my 90 day program.

Now, when I first came across you, it was Andrew and Pete's atomic bomb, not this last one, just gone to the virtual one, but the real one last March.

Yeah, long time ago. It feels like a long time ago now, doesn't it? Yeah. And I remember being blown away by your presentation on finals and final strategy and basically how to move people from audience to having bought something from you. So I was really keen to explore that a little bit and ask some of my what we would call up where I am. Daft Luddy questions.

That is absolutely fine. I love this type of questions. That's good.

Now, when you say obviously you have your own podcast, which is doing pretty well, what's quite interesting with you is a lot of people that I have on the show that work in the marketing field, they are often what you might call the consultant type. And consultants tend to do things in quite a linear way, the way everybody's always done things. So they go to networking events, they bring their work through referral or they went through Pedders, things like that.

But consultants tend to work within a catchment area a lot of the time. It's not always the case. There are lots of sort of Internet types that also come the podcast. But you're quite an interesting contrast in that you've done the traditional marketing piece but moved into this online space very effectively, very quickly. And you've done it with a degree of expertise, which is quite unusual. So I'm keen to also understand not just what you do, but how you learned it, because it's complicated and nerdy stuff.

So first off, thank you for saying that. I do not I don't think about that transition very often. I remember it being a wee bit scary in terms of going from having an agency as such and consulting to then moving over to virtually being entirely online and only having online products. But for me, I think what I find this kind of came about was I did a degree literally 16, 17 years ago now in marketing. So I have a B.A. honours in marketing.

So first off, I think that's fairly interesting for and it sounds daft, but sometimes in the digital marketing space, you don't find people have always come from marketing, which seems odd, but that is the case. And so when I done marketing for everyone, I work for loads different businesses, but I'd always been employed like I'd never, ever had the vision or the even kind of the what's the word for it like impulsion, no compulsion to start my own business.

I always wanted to work for someone else. I was a very good employee. I liked being employed and I was really risk averse. So I did loads of different things, which gave me a huge plethora of sort of experience and knowledge. So I had ran the head of corporate marketing for Landrover, doing very traditional things, doing events so big, massive brand like that, right the way down to a teeny tiny company where I had to do everything, including coming up with like fax campaigns or creating little brochures by myself, probably in paint or publisher or something dreadful like that.

So I had kind of done a huge amount of stuff. And then I worked for an agency and although I loved working for the agency, I just got to the point where a few things in my life had changed. I'd end up being a single parent and I just got to the point where I thought, you know what? I just really need to be happy and do stuff myself now. So I decided that I needed a new job, handed in my notice and decided what sounds like very arrogantly.

But I can assure you that is not me and I'm sure I'll get another job. I'm really good at marketing. I was. I am, you know, I eat, sleep, breathe this stuff. So put my notes in.

Gave. Eight weeks notice and I got about three weeks and nothing was forthcoming, and basically with my back up against the wall, I had got, you know, a mortgage to pay a child that I had to feed and look after. And I had I had no option of a job. So I thought, what if I start my own business? I must have had an early mid-life crisis or something. Because, you know, this is crazy talk when you literally have no husband to support you and no rich parents and no savings either.

So I went into this in the worst possible way you could have done. But I started off doing the consultancy, doing the kind of more agency done for you staff. But then what happened was the digital side was getting more and more prevalent. And these were the days of like Mari Smith and Kim Ghast. I remember they were like the first things I did. And I started to do online webinars, which back then, like six years ago, which doesn't sound very long ago.

But in our world, it feels like it was a long time ago. I was doing these webinars and I was doing these these training online. And I remember being at home and Murray-Smith Smith called out my name and I was like, oh my God, it's just my name. And I thought, this is absolutely amazing. So I started to learn and then I started to watch some of these people and they had done the transition of they went from working for someone to working for themselves, thinking, I'm going to get all this time.

I no longer report to anybody. I'm my own boss. And then realizing that as a agency or consultant, I didn't have one boss. I had about 17 of them. And they all thought, oh, great, we're going to, you know, use Teresa's time and I can contact at any point and she'll come in and see me. And and it was getting really, really difficult. So for me, I started looking at those online people thinking, this is amazing.

Like, how do you do this? How how could I do this? And I literally went and learnt from the best. I signed up to lots of courses but did lots of courses. I put myself in the space of other people who are phenomenal at this stuff. So the James Wetmore of this world and their report Skills of this World. And I went and learnt from them and and with my marketing knowledge of one of my greatest skills is I can, you know, feel like I can put myself in any customers position and be able to then use the language that they need and the inspiration they need to make the purchase.

So for me, with my marketing knowledge, my marketing experience and all those good years, then add on the digital stuff that everyone else was learning. And it just hopefully kind of came to a really good combination having both of those things. And then I just worked really hard on my personal brand, tried to show up everywhere, tried to do all the talks and I love it. And one thing that I get told all the time is that my passion comes through.

So for me, if I didn't get paid for this stuff, if I didn't have to get paid, if, you know, I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd still do it because I literally love this stuff.

And what sort of time period was there between you deciding, OK, online looks awesome and actually being there where my business is online. So I reckon you're talking at least 18 months, two years.

And the reason for that, I just want to explain briefly, is the fact that I sat on it for too long. I knew all the stuff right. So I knew what to do. I had been doing it. So once I kind of started to transition well, once I not transition into the online world. But once I was learning more and more about the online world, my consultancy and marketing started to change. So instead of consulting a business that was maybe a high street business, I was then consulting personal brands on how they could launch their online products.

So I was already doing it. I done it for other people for at least a year or two before I started because I kind of started as soon as I started learning, I started taking on clients for it. So I'd done it. I'd got the experience. I knew what to do. I'd test that stuff out. But you know what? When it came to me putting myself out there and saying to the world, hey, look, this is me, this is who I am, I've just put together this course or I've just done this thing, I was terrified.

I was literally terrified because what if no one bought it? What if I actually didn't know anything? What if the person who teaches or the people hate to do this couldn't do it for herself and like, it literally held me back. So if I hadn't have been so nervous, I probably could have done it within six to 12 months. But the other thing I want to mention about this is I went from having a very successful business with a team of like six, seven people getting an income from only agency.

And I literally had to, like, almost suck off or not replace or change. Or give them to my staff and say, right, you can now have these people because I don't want to do this anymore and I can't have that responsibility of them, I have to make all these changes where I was actively getting rid of money coming into my business so that I could free myself up. And that was terrifying as well, because it was like I had a really successful business and I literally just halted that overnight because I knew that if I hadn't given myself enough time that I wouldn't.

You've got to have the time and trying to do the both trying to still run the agency and do all that sort of thing as well as then do all the interviews and start a podcast and speak on stage and be events. And especially because like last year, I did 26 flights. So I was out of the country so much and I couldn't have run an agency and I couldn't have run, even though it was still all online. I couldn't have done it if I, you know, while still trying to manage all that at the same time.

So that was a scary point. And it was almost like I was brand new again. It was almost like I'm starting a brand new business and taking that brand new risk again. And it was it was pretty pretty, Harian, in the early days because, you know, I got used to what we in we we live, you know, as everybody does to their means. And and we had to make some adjustments and I had to make some adjustments.

And but the other thing I didn't want to do is get rid of the team. So some of them reduced with what they did. Some of them do something slightly different. But it was pretty scary to to make that transition because this view of selling a digital product like a course or a membership and it's a get rich quick is absolutely not the case at all. No, it's a lot of work, huge amount. And you just can't do that while trying to do something else.

So I knew if I wanted to give a really good go and it was a hard conversation. You know, my husband and I had to sit down and go, right, what does this mean if I do this and taking that step and going. You know what? That client's gone. I'm doing no effort to replace them and actively. Now, actually, what is quite nice is when people come to me, I can go, no, we don't do that anymore, but I can pass you on to someone else.

So, you know, evidently they go to the team, you know, because there are a lot of them are freelance and but it's actually, you know, don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful for the clients that I work with. And I learn lots. And and it was wonderful working with them.

But it is kind of nice now that I get to go now. And we still have a couple of clients. Actually, I have a couple of people that still work with us that the team manage for me. So I don't manage them. But, you know, they're wonderful and I love them to bits and that's great. But most of them, you know, one way or another, we we got to the point of going, yep, we can't do this.

So, yeah, it was an interesting transition.

I think there's a lot of parallels to my own story as well. I mean, I went through a similar experience of sort of divesting myself of 90 percent of my business because it just wasn't ringing my bell at all. I just found it. And I don't know if you felt this as well, that I was on a hamster wheel of sales just to keep a lot of people going who didn't really seem to be into what I was doing anyway.

Yeah, and I just think it's I just didn't want to be accountable anymore. I was on stage is talking and I loved it and I didn't want to. I remember being at an event where I was speaking and I was getting ready to be on stage within the next hour or two. And it's you know, it was a big audience and I was nervous cause I always get nervous, although I love it and I've got a client messaging me like, oh, mechanical problem with this.

And the other thing is that's really interesting. It's like I used to work in an industry, so I was one of my jobs when I was employed was in the car industry and I got into it through the marketing department. And then I got promoted to director and ended up being director of service. Now, I didn't do very long couple of years because I thought this is not what I should be doing because this is not my bag. But we had children in care, that horrendous things was happening to them.

You know, terrible situations would happen, you know, come the weekend. They didn't go into a cupboard and come out Monday. And when I started back, like in traditional marketing. So I left that job after a couple of years and I went back to an agency, although I still had an element of it like that. I had way too much responsibility when when it came to the children and when I went back to the agency, the relief of, you know what, no one is going to die if we send out a tweet with a spelling mistake and sometimes the clients don't see it that way.

I just totally do like, you know, yeah, we made a mistake and, you know, we're human and we don't make money, but I refuse to wouldn't having dealt with an industry like that where literally, you know, terrible things are happening to the children, you literally have to put it in perspective. This is marketing and it was that urgency and that kind of like we need this day now that I was just like, yeah, that isn't good for me, I'm afraid.

You know, in the nicest sense, the word, I want to be really helpful and create a good product for you, but it's not going to work until you also feel at the time, OK, there's all this freedom.

I don't want to be accountability. I can choose my own path. I don't really have to worry about these. Seemingly if there's any clients listening, I don't mean it this way. No, not trivial concerns of clients when you're trying to build something amazing. So you've got that going on in one hand. But on the other hand, you used to have a big business. You used to be important and your ego is suffering because what are all these people who used to be your competitors thinking of what's happened to her?

She must have. She must have been in trouble. Yeah.

You know what? That is really funny. So in Shropshire where I live, obviously I had competition because I was an agency and we'd go and get the small stuff and, you know, we'd go and get clients together. I did do the networking thing I did, you know, with lots of local clients, amazing people. And I people really did like me when I started to do more speaking and started to step up a bit more. And this was before I moved over to the side completely.

But, you know, it is funny because I obviously I'm still in Shropshire. And what happens is whenever I do something in Shropshire, I get people say mean things, right. Which, you know, how everyone's terrified to show themselves online because of trolls and people saying horrible stuff. I can tell you pretty much hand on heart. I don't think I can think of one example that wasn't someone who lived within probably a 20 mile radius of my house.

Like, it's not it's not the rest of the world that were like intimidated or angry or hated me. It was the people who literally were just down the road and knew me from when I was there, which always made me laugh because it's like I'm no competitor to you now. I don't offer what you offer. I don't want to do what you do. I'm not trying to build a big agency with, you know, lots of graphic designers and websites I might have done at some point, but not now.

I do something entirely different. But yeah, it didn't. It is funny because sometimes I do like it to be like, look, I have got a really good business here and I'm really well respected. And I get this and I get that. And then you just have to park your ego and go, you know what? It is, what it is. And I've had a couple of local at a local magazine that's got a fairly big readership in Shropshire do a piece on me.

And again, I was terrified when I and I just thought, someone's going to say something, someone's going to put something up. And I just didn't pay any attention. And like I said, it's not it's not the rest of the world to go where it's like literally people on your doorstep. But but yeah, I think I just had to focus and I'm a big fan of saying stay in your own lane, like, put my head down, get on and do my thing.

And and the other thing that you sort of alluded to when you asked this question was one of the things I did, because, like you said, I went from being successful. I went from being, you know, working with big people and doing big accounts and, you know, and then literally gave it all up. And if and I did worry that if anybody ever went into check my limited company stuff, they'd be like, what happened?

Because literally disappeared. But then what I did instead is instead of looking at the money and looking at what big job I'd want, I looked at like some person that I've never met and never heard of contacting me, telling me they listen to my podcast now. Amazing it was. Or someone sharing an Instagram story about me speaking and how brilliant they thought it was. And I literally took every single teeny tiny when I could take. So although it felt in the early days and still to an extent now where, you know, you wish you had the millions of followers and you wish you had, you know, the thousands of people in your memberships and your programs and your courses and you watch someone else doing a massive thing and you think I'm not there yet.

But I think the mistake that people make with the online world in particular is that they don't love the people that they've got. So for me, when I first opened the membership, I shut the doors at like 30 people and I loved those 30 people, like, literally couldn't love on them anymore. Every time someone sends you a message or reply to my email or DM's me, it might take me a bit of time to get back to you.

But I always do, you know, because I need to appreciate and love every single person that that does the same to me. So those were what I focused on rather than a game of not bringing in loads of money this month or I've not got this big contract or sat in this fancy office with these people. And yeah, so I focused on something different.

So what I would like to look at now is funnels and I will make a confession. I don't have a funnel.

So what the hell, Bob? I say that rather closely, of course, but things like webinars, Facebook ads, lead magnets, email lists, if you take the average small business owner through to an aspiring marketer, so to speak, this is often where things get a bit choppy because it's quite straightforward.

I say quite straightforward is personally challenging for a lot of people, but it's fairly easy to sort of build a personal brand to do the social media, the content marketing, to build an audience to an extent, but to build a system that connects that audience to a value exchange that's really challenging. And when I watched your to ComicCon sort of map out these followers, I thought that's just witchcraft. So if you were to take somebody, that's OK. They've they've built a bit of a social media audience.

They they have a productize course or a membership.

How would you take them from that point to being able to close that gap for the value exchange?

So I think the first thing I want to say is that sometimes people think of funnels and webinars and they think, oh, my goodness, like, this is huge. And you know what? When you look at some people's stuff and you look at mine today, yeah, there's a lot of stuff that goes into it and there's a lot of moving parts and a lot of you know, when we talk about lead magnets, I have like six or seven on the go at any one time.

But you know what? I've been doing this ages. So I think in the first instance, the first thing to think about is simple or as simple as you can do it. So when we talk systems, which is normally the things people want to know, they want to know what systems I use, how do I do that? Because they get the overall understanding of it. But it's like actually in practice, how do I do that?

So for me, you need to get people off the social media. And when I say off, I don't mean you're no longer dealing with them on social media. They're still going to follow on Instagram. Is there going to post on Facebook? But you need to get them onto your own list because that's super, super important, because if something was to happen tomorrow and I give some great and terrible examples in the sense of I've had people come to me who literally built their entire business using Instagram and someone hacked their account and wiped the entire thing like they had something like 70 something thousand followers.

It was so devastating and there was nothing they could do about it. So that's why I happen all the time about building that email list.

So in a very basic way, all you've got to do is have something that you can give someone that they want that fixes their problem, that helps them and is in line with what you're selling and then you need to offer it them on social media. You need to maybe put an advert or put it on your social media or put it on your website or put it on your cover photo of your Facebook account, put it in your group and just basically tell the world and not just once, many, many times.

So I get this all the time. Just as a side note, they'll come to me and go, that isn't working. OK, how many people have adopted into it? Five. Ivan, how many times have you put it out? I put it on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook as like. So basically you put it out twice and you've had five people opt into it. You're telling me it's not working, like trying to put in a fifty times and have no one opt in and then suddenly it's not working.

I am literally climbing into my box of shame right now. Oh, I'm so sorry. This is I promise this is a safe space. You could do this. And this is the thing. And I think this is the honesty that I try and bring across, because sometimes I think all this is made out to be way too easy. And it isn't like so building that MLS, getting these people on, finding the thing that they want, because that's the other thing.

You could go to all this effort, create this lead magnet. And actually that's not the big pain point that they need help with. So so that's the first step you need.

You need them to to want something that you can help them with. So firstly, like preamps way before this is you need to know your customers really well, which is a marketing basic that I harp on about all the time. But so once you've kind of got this thing in, you're getting them on your list. Basically, you need a landing page. And I always suggest the landing page or a pop up box, something that you can do, an active campaign or convert kit.

You can even do it in MailChimp, although it's not amazing for it, in my opinion.

So you just need something like that. And then what happens is when they opt in a funnel is they go to a thank you page. And can you do something on that thank you page.

So normally I'd encourage you to get them to follow you on a social media platform or if you go to. My staff, my thank you page normally says, go check your emails, go listen to my podcast, it gives you three steps and the third one is go check out the academy. It's really good. If I'm running up to doing a webinar, then every thank you page I have will be sort of diverted to a thank you page. It says, hey, hang on, you've just signed up for this.

I'm doing a webinar soon. Do you want to sign up for that? So use that thank you page. But then what happens is you send emails out so your system and the ones I've mentioned can all do this. They basically say when they do this thing, when they fill in that box, send them to this thank you page and send them these emails. And you ideally want two, three, four emails that we talk about on boarding emails that explain to them kind of, you know, here's the thing you've asked for.

Obviously, that's the very first thing you need to do is deliver the thing they've asked for and then show them that, you know, what situation they're in. You know how, you know, they struggle with X, Y, Z, or you've been there, too. And that's why you went and did this thing or why you've put together this academy or whatever it is. And that's where you do the warming up and introducing. And I actually on email for I actually say, if you want the good stuff, it's in the academy now.

Do I expect that to convert highly? No, not at all. But I am introducing it to them. So it's like a case mentioned the academy Unthank paid. She mentioned they had him on my on my emails that I got from her. And then I now get a regular email from her. I'm on her email list and she emails me every Wednesday. This is the other Chebet about a funnel that people don't think about. So they're thinking about, you know, the sales and the and the move from here to here to here.

But there is a period of time where so if you got on my email list, like months ago through a lead magnet, you're just getting my weekly emails and you're probably seeing of the things I'm encouraging to listen to the podcast, but my weekly emails are all about adding value. So my Wednesday email, I call it my love letter. Okay. So I imagine I am writing this letter to one of the people on my list and how would I speak to them if I was talking directly to them.

It's not a newsletter, it's not a sales letter and it's definitely not a hey, I've got a podcast this week because hopefully they've seen I have a podcast and hopefully they listen to anyway. So I treat it as separate content and I give them something different. So this week I talked about the story of how I got to do a TED talk and how I nearly didn't get the chance. And, you know, that's there's no real learning other than the fact of, you know, what are you potentially missing out on by not doing something or not taking a risk or not taking a step.

So there is a bit of learning. But next week I might give them five things for Instagram or, you know, the week after I might give them a funnel conversation. So so I treat that as different. You won't get that anywhere else. So that's the other thing you've got to be loving on those people between that point and that point. So so then what whether a funnel comes in in terms of converting them, you need to launch somehow.

And when I say launch is not necessarily launch, as in it's just opening, but you need to create some excitement around the thing that you're selling. So even if you have an open cart scenario, i.e. you're selling all the time, you still want periods throughout your year where you can create more of a fuss about it. So, for instance, I'll have a five day less building challenge and the option at the end of the day, this building challenge is to get them into the academy so they might get a special offer or they might get a bonus or they might get something else.

The academy is actually the car is going to close, which will be the first time I've closed it since I opened it at the end of October. And so, weirdly, I'm having a master class in order to get ready for the close. You know, it's already open. They could join at any point. But because I know I've got to create, you know, some activity around it, I need to do something. So so a webinar, a master class, a challenge and live launch, all of those things are great.

And what you're effectively doing is you're giving them some kind of example of what it is they're going to buy, because inevitably an online thing is a training, a teaching, a coaching. So the idea of creating this free content is that they get an idea of what's coming. So once you've kind of got them in there in your funnel that, you know, they're getting your regular emails, then you set up a load of emails to those people to say, hey, actually, I've got this thing.

I think it's really good and this is where the funnel thing comes into play. So when you come into my email list, let's say, and you download the launch chat list, that's one of my lead magnets I've got there currently that talks all about how to launch and the various points you need to go through. Or you came in and you downloaded my social media. Managers checklist, which is basically how to proactively do engagement on social media, even though I both I want both of you to come to this masterclass, I might speak differently to both of those people.

So, for instance, for the launch people, I might focus on the fact of, you know, the master. We've got to talk about taking a product online. That might be just one of the things we talk about, but that's how I focus it in their email, in the people who did the social media management thing. I might talk about the fact of, you know, the importance of social media when you're selling, using digital products or whatever.

So that's where the beauty comes in, really, and that's where the kind of part of the funnel stuff really starts to come to play because it says, I know you, I know what you downloaded, I know what you liked, and I know that you're interested in this the same way as when we start going into the sales aspect, even though effectively you're selling one thing saying to those launch people. Right. In the academy, there is a whole sales page training.

There is a lead magnet training, there is a landing page training. There is like basically all these things that are going to really help you launch, but then saying to the social media people. Right, in that there is Facebook ads, course, there is a Instagram stories, there is an Instagram cause all you're doing is it's the same product and all that stuff is in there. You're just using the information you've already built about them in order to better market to them.

Does that make sense? Absolutely nailed it.

A lot of people's experience of a website is they hire a website designer to build the website. They pay the invoice. You're on your own guys. And that leaves them quite exposed when they speak to people like you and I and they're being told, OK, you're going to need a landing page for this, a thank you page. In fact, you probably weren't landing pages for each of your lead magnets. And they go, yeah, but how many of them are meant to do this without rehiring that web designer who frankly won't have a clue what I'm now asking him for because they they built the website.

Not stuff to do. Yeah. The Web designers are great at building websites, but they don't know digital marketing. They certainly don't know what I would qualify as Internet marketing. Now, I know there are a lot of onsite online builders and WordPress plug ins for this, but if somebody was particularly if there weren't a digital native, how would you advise them to do this?

Even if it's going to cost a little bit of money being sensible, how should they do it? So there's a few options. So one of the options I did to begin with is I did bring someone in and I was like, okay, you're an expert at this. I need you to build this for me. However, I soon discovered I didn't like not being able to control it. And the beauty of having an online product is that I can go in and add a course to it or I can go in and update a course, or I can go in and build an extra page because I've just thought the brilliant idea for a landing page or for a lead magnet.

So for me, I wanted the control on it. Now, will I always want that control? Absolutely not. You know, the day I can handle this over to someone else. Great. I will look forward to that day. But I think especially when you're first starting off, it's actually really important to try to as much as this as you possibly can only so you know how it works. So there are certain systems out there that for me kind of really help in terms of getting you to a quick based knowledge and being very intuitive and user friendly.

So one of the very first systems I used and actually I did it a qualification with them in conversion marketing, which was another thing I did in those early days, was lead pages. So lead pages just create landing pages and pages and they talk to other email systems because basically you need something to deliver the email and you need the page that they land on. They really quickly a landing page. All I mean by that is a page that sits separately from your site.

Now, it could technically still be part of your site, but hidden. But the key thing about the landing pages, I don't want your menubar on there. The only button I want on there is the button that they have to click in order to get the thing and put their details in, because if you give them if you do this on, say, you just add an additional page to your website or they're going to do is go, oh, what's the about us or what?

What's this thing? And then they go off and they forget to do it. So the landing page is a specific page, that sort of thing, and lead pages are brilliant. And then I moved quite a while back now over to KJB. Now, if you are serious about having an online business and you want to do a membership or a course, something like KJB is. Actually, really, really good, so engager be one of the things that put me off and scared me to begin with was like I was using lead pages to build a landing page as using Infusionsoft, which why that is a very big and complicated and expensive system to send emails.

And that would manage the funds better, i.e. the automation. If someone does this, make them have this. I was using oh, what was I using other stuff for, what did I use. So if I was doing webinars, if I was doing events, they'd be done through something separately. The actual course I had that I sold was done through wish-List member. So I was using all these systems and the ability for them to all talk together was confusing and hard and and quite frankly, scary because it was like any one of these systems on their own could go wrong.

If that's not talking to that one properly, then I've just upset a lot of people or sent them something they shouldn't have had. Or so for me, when I went to Caiabi, I made the decision to move there because everything is in-house. So it is an expensive platform when you first look at it. However, when you add up all the other things that you don't need to have, it's actually really cost effective. So but in there, you've got the landing page bill there.

You've got the email system, you've got the funnels, you've got automation, you can tag them, you can build your course. It's got a payment processor. So if you're starting out and and you can afford to spend a little bit and I didn't start on the job, but like that, I did spend money on other things and then thought, actually, this isn't working for me. So if you can afford to spend something on these things, which you do want, because that's the other thing, like people, they they're not thinking future ahead.

So, for instance, they'll be like, well, I'll put this up. And if they want it, they can do me and I'll send it there. And it's like, yeah, that's cool if you're getting one a week. But what if you get in a day? Like everything I did, I thought for scaling. So anything we do in our business, even to this day, we always think, hey, might this look, if there was ten times the amount of people or how would I deal with this if it was this?

So for me, that's why I move to something like KJB fairly early on or when I was serious about right, I'm taking all online. That's when I moved. And they manage everything in one platform. It all talks to each other. You don't need to worry about, you know, an API breaking or something, doing an update and then breaking something out. So for me, that works really well. Nice. Some people that's not their thing and they really like to use particular systems, that particular things.

And also, don't get me wrong, you know, Infusionsoft as we cleverer than Cajal by email, however, it was very expensive and very confusing and you had to get it to talk to the other systems. So for me, that's why I went ahead with with KJB and just found something that was a nice solution. But there's also other things, you know, I don't know one that does. All in all I need is think effec, but I don't think they manager emails.

And there's lots of email providers. Like I said, you know, you've got convert get an active campaign that will definitely manage landing pages, opt in boxes, thank you pages and automation. But they're not the course or the membership sites. So for me, if you are serious and you want to do all that, then probably the job is worth a it.

And again. And again and again. I guess alongside that I looked at KJB and I found the presales is quite difficult to understand really what it is that you're potentially buying. And I never really got to the bottom of how they handle or if they handle the community elements of it. A membership site. Yes.

Now, do you know how I got honestly, I get to things in a really strange way. So, you know, I got to his KJB.

I like going to events. I like to put myself in front of people's faces, which, you know, in this weird online world, actually, I'm still very traditional and I do like to meet people.

So I had seen this event that was being put on in Irvine, in California that was literally like a two week past an event I was already doing in California.

And the line up for this event was phenomenal. Like it was a who's who of the digital marketing world, Brendan Bouchard, Rachel Hollis, Amy Porterfield, Jasmyn star, James Wetmore, like literally rock stars, all of whom use Cadabby.

And it's because it was a KGB event.

Right. So to be to be able to actually buy a ticket, you had to be a KGB user. Now, obviously, at that point, I didn't use KGB and I didn't want to invest at that point. So I contacted them. They'll probably tell me for saying this. I contacted them. I said whatever. After the free trial, can I still go if I paid for my ticket in the light? Yeah, so I went to this conference and I swear to goodness, I must have been the only person there, wasn't it?

Because it was quite hilarious.

But the community aspect in terms of like how the how they treated the people who used to be the help they gave them, the support that gave them the love they gave them for me was just like, oh, wow, you guys are awesome. They didn't sell once because obviously didn't need to a room for like a job. Users.

However, I only had to be in that room for a couple of days to then go. I'm signing up. But in terms of community, from a membership point of view, they actually have a community area. So if you don't want to use Facebook, which obviously lots of online memberships and courses and things do as a group, you can do it all through KJB and they have apps as well. So once you've created your membership, it's not that much work.

And I don't think any more money to actually turn your membership into an app that then people can use on their phones. This is exciting. Mhm. It's, it's good.

It's there. They've got some great stuff. So I'm looking at the time and thinking we've been going for quite a while now, but I still want to ask you, I mean it's very easy to focus on what's going well, what we're good at. But I'm really curious to know which part of your business do you struggle with. Which part do you look. I go I find that very difficult or I know this is the next step I need to take in my business, but maybe I'm a bit scared of how where are you in in that?

I think, you know what? In honesty, I think it happens a lot. I think one thing that's really interesting now, I've worked with lots of people in our industry and I've worked with lots of Packers and the Packers are really good. Like when there's two of them, they seem to be really efficient and get stuff done and not just because it's two of them, but because they almost have that accountability to each other. So I often find that even though I know what to do, that's sitting in my own head, in my own office on my own.

I can go round and round and round in circles and I can procrastinate when really there's no if you know, if I was to get someone on a call with me and they would say rectories, I'm in this position, which is exactly the same position I was in, I would be able to tell them what to do with in a heartbeat. But obviously with your own stuff, it's difficult. So I think for me the time element is a tricky one because I can do everything it means I am maybe not as organized.

So for instance, on Monday, so we're recording this on Thursday. On the next Monday coming, my podcast comes out. It comes out every Monday. And on that podcast I tell people that I'm doing a webinar, a masterclass, free training, and I tell them where to go, i.e. what the link is. And I haven't actually set that up yet. We have like a weekend and a couple of days. And I think that's half the problem because I can do it like it's.

Oh yeah, I'll do that. I'll do that. I'll do that. So sometimes, even though I know the steps, I'm not giving myself enough time because I know if I'd gone to myself as a client and said, right, you want to do this, this is why I want this ready for. So I think I think sometimes that's difficult. I think the fear thing for me has got a lot better. So I literally now ask myself, what's the worst thing that can happen?

Like, I just, you know, I want I'm putting on a special day in November and it's a in fact, the first time I've spoke about it. So basically in the next couple of weeks, I'll be publicizing it. And it's for academy members only. It's an online event that we're doing where I have done little things that but never a whole day where we plan twenty, twenty one, where we review everything we've done with goals that I talk you through, how I do all this because I do every year, how we break it down into quarters, how we then do campaign planning.

We've also got some very special guests coming in, doing things, the right mindset and various different things. And when I put that list together, I literally went, who would be absolutely unbelievable to go there in this event? And I contacted them and I got a no. Okay. And normally that no would have devastated me. And they sent me the most beautiful. No, you know, and if you ever do get know from these amazing people, they are normally very gracious, a very lovely.

And I said to my husband, I'm absolutely gutted about that, actually. And he's like, but you haven't lost anything. And and I have to then. So probably ten minutes of loten that's a shame. And being a bit grumpy. But then I was like, you know what it was, you know, I asked at the end of the day and I haven't lost anything and what's the worst that could have happened? They said no. And what happens then?

Nothing. They just said, no, I don't lose any money, my arm doesn't fall off, my daughter is still safe. And I know that sounds like an extreme thing to think about, but honestly, I have seen people who are phenomenal not do very well purely because they're terrified. And it's like, if you could just try if you could just get that bravery to go, you know what? And then realize that you didn't die, then, you know, the sky's the limit.

So for me, not so much that now I you know, you don't like if you you're to say nice things about you. But to be honest, I very rarely get that which touch with fingers crossed. But yeah, I think it's just a case of the planning thing. I need to get way better. And my team, I'm the bottleneck all the time, like I've done this.

I hear you there, Theresa. We should bring things to a close. But I need to remember to ask you. What's usually the last question I ask every guest, and that's what's one thing that you do now that you wish you'd started five years ago. So for me, it's the mindset thing when I started my business, I thought, how hard could this be? I'm serious. Like, honestly, I look back and laugh at myself for my naivete because I did marketing.

I knew it like I was good at it. So I genuinely thought, well, this is what I've done for my job for literally 16 years. And well, no, not at that point. It was like 10. And I thought, how hard could this be? I never once thought about how important my mindset was so I can have all the best tools, tactics, strategies in the world. And believe me, I literally screenshot funnels like you wouldn't believe.

I constantly opt into things because I just want to see what they do. So, you know, this is like literally in my DNA. But if I wake up in a morning and feel the fear, which I did because I didn't launch, if I wake up and just feel like I don't want to do it or someone says something mean or I look at someone else is doing amazingly and get complete from o'War, you know, they're doing great and no one likes me.

And then basically it doesn't matter how good my strategy is and knowledge is, I won't do the work. So for me, the mind set piece is like, that's the best. And when I look at the people who I sort of aim to be like or I'm inspired by, they have that fairly sewn up. They realized very early on that that was the key almost to their that kind of success in the sense of when you get knocked down, which you do constantly, you get back up again and you get back up again and you get back up again and you have got some well, you've got to have some amazing resilience to be able to do that.

And that's what I work on. That's why I have a morning routine. I meditate every morning. I journal all the time. Like I'm constantly saying to my husband, I'm going to journal that. I'm going to journal that I like. And and I have to do a lot of work around learning things. I read personal development books and business books like they're going out of fashion. But that for me, that's what's enabled me to keep going.

And having this unwavering faith, which I do, that everything I want, I'm going to get it's going to come. But it's not going to be a straight line. It's not going to be like easy peasy. So I've just got to keep going and going and going. So I need that resilience.

That's a fantastic answer Theresa is wearing. If people want to take things further with you, how can they do that? How would you like them to get in touch with you so you can pick your favorite platform and Google my name and you will find me.

But I am more often on Instagram or more regularly on Instagram than anywhere else. And I do love an extreme story. Or you can just go to Torres's wearing dot com and you'll find me that through the Earth wearing.

Thank you very much for your time. I can't wait to speak to you again and probably meet you in person, but I don't think we've actually spent any time together. No, I think that we have no. So no, I just can't wait for that in general when we can actually see real paneling and it'll be amazing. Thank you very much.

If you don't ask, you don't get. We've all heard that a million times, but we hear it a lot because it's true. The main problem most people have in business and in sales is that they never actually make an offer. So make an offer. Before we go, just a quick reminder to subscribe. And if you haven't joined the Facebook group, you'll find a link in the show, notes or visit, amplify me, dot form forward slash insiders.

I would love for you to connect with me. You'll find me on social media wherever you hang out. My name's at Bob Gentil. Easy to find if you do connect with me. Messaged me to let me know. That way I can follow you back. If you've enjoyed the show then I would love for you to review on iTunes. It would mean a lot to me and it's the very best way to help me reach more subscribers. My name is Bob Gentile.

Thanks again to Teresa for giving us her time this week and to you for listening. See you next week.