If failing sometimes is inevitable then doesn’t it make sense to have a plan for you’ll systematically turn that to your advantage? I think so and this week on the podcast we’re diving into this and so much more with author and coach Robin Waite.
Robin Waite is the founder of Fearless Business, Speaker, Podcast Host and bestselling author of five books including Online Business Startup, and Take Your Shot
As the Founder of Fearless Business, Robin helps coaches, consultants, and entrepreneurs to slow down, create space and confidently charge their worth. Offering insights on Product Architecture, Pricing Your Products and Sales.
Robin's website : https://www.robinwaite.com/
Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription. There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.
Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show today. On the show, Bob is speaking with Robin Weight, and it's such a powerful context. So I always encourage business owners to launch and fail and fail fast because you get the feedback you start those conversations off. People can see as well, you know what you're trying to achieve, and then they can be bought into that mission and go on that journey with you.
Hi there. And welcome back to Amplify, the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Podcast and Bob Gentle. And every Monday I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. If you're new, then take a second to subscribe through your player app. And while you're listening, join our Facebook communities. Just visit Amplifying Forward Slash Insiders and you'll be taken right there. Hi there. I'll come back to Amplifying, a Personal Brand Entrepreneur show. My name's Gentle. And every week I'm joined by incredible people who share what makes their business work.
If you're new to the show, take a second, right? Not to subscribe. And if you're listening to a podcast, make sure to hit the new follow up on in the Top, right? Otherwise you will get notified when there's a new episode. So this week, I'm really excited to welcome Robin Weight from Failsbusiness Coaching. Robin, welcome to the show.
Hey, Bob, great to be here. Thank you for inviting me on.
So before I start rambling for the guest who doesn't know who you are, why don't you just tell us a little bit about who you are, where you are and the kind of work you do?
Yeah, of course. Thank you. So some. Well, I'm physically based in the Cotswolds in the southwest of the UK. If you think sort of chocolate box like cottages, that's exactly where I'm rolling countryside in terms of what I do. So I'm a husband's father. I've got two beautiful daughters through a seven and five, and then in my spare time, I'm a business coach. So we help other coaches, consultants and freelancers to essentially, all of all of our clients tend to be very bright people, amazing results for their clients, but they seem to be working all the hours under the sun and then scratch their heads at the end of the month wondering where all the money that I should be earning.
So we help our clients to slow down, create a little bit of space for themselves, and then confidently charge more for the product or service is that they're delivering to their clients. And we do that in a painless way as we possibly can. But sometimes it does require a bit of tough love as well.
I think the thing that intrigues me when I first came across your stuff was the fearless side of things, because I think a lot of people underestimate fear it's closely tied to this idea of a comfort zone that there's what's normal we'll only sort of take you so far and anybody that's achieved extraordinary things, and we all want that in our business has to do extraordinary things. And that requires us to move beyond what's normal because doing normal just gets you normal. But you don't start the business because you want normal.
So I'm curious when you branded around the sort of fearless business coaching side of things, what was your thought process there? Why fearless, as opposed to all the other things you could have chosen?
Yes. Such a great question. So. Well, first of all, I think a lot of people mistake the word fearless like you've alluded to for the word reckless. And actually it's kind of completely the opposite there. Being fearless is actually in business, especially as about fearing the things in business ever so slightly less that are going to stop you from achieving your goals. And I think that back in the days when we used to go and fetch water on the planes of Africa, there were real things to be afraid of, Lions and crocodiles and hippos and gigs like that.
But actually, the reality is in business, there isn't a lot to fear, but a lot of people kind of build up in their mind around simple things, like standing up and doing a 62nd pitch and networking meeting or maybe charging a bit more money for their products or services, and that absolutely petrifies them. And it immediately creates fight, flight and freeze. The reality is on business. You might lose a bit of face if you do something silly or daft, or you might lose a bit of money.
And the reality of both those is neither is actually that bad. But the true where I kind of really kind of then embed the identity of fearless is actually it's down to a couple of my sort of past time. So I'm keen surfer. I'm not particularly good, but I'm a very keen surfer. And I've served 15 foot waves in Morocco and nearly killed myself. That was kind of a bit of an accident, but it was a really sort of a life changing moment for me. I won't give you the boy with the full story.
I'm a keen cyclist. I've been down Hills at over 50 miles an hour on basically a push bike. So there is this element of bringing fearlessness into sort of personal life as well. And so when I spoke to my branding person is an amazing lady called Sanai. She's got a great book as well all about her branding process. She was like, you need to bring in some of that personal aspect of your life into your business brand because it's really powerful. And the word fearless. Actually, funny enough, I was doing a talk.
So originally I was Robin weight business coach, which was a bit dull. And I was doing a talk about four years ago, and somebody said to me, I think I said that statement, there's nothing to fear in business. They need to fear the things in business, ever a slightly less and literally somebody in the audience, she out. You're the fearless business coach. And I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, absolutely. It kind of really sums up, you know, what I'm about how I want my clients to sort of think about business and the way that they sort of project themselves out into the business world.
So there's quite a lot as you picked up there, there's a lot sort of wrapped up in that word fearless.
I think what you've done with it, and I don't want to sort of go too deep on this, but it does set a beacon at a very specific frequency that's going to attract a very specific kind of person. And really, that's the essence of branding. If you want to strongly attract anybody, you're going to have to send out signals that they can actually see. And the fearless business coach and everything that goes around it. For me, it does speak to an awful lot of the things that actually prevent people from moving forward.
You might be great at what you do, but I think you know what it is a lot of the time. I work exclusively with business owners, and I have done for 20 years. And it's always surprised me that some people, even though they're maybe not so smart, there may be not the most skilled for some reason, they managed to build incredible businesses. And yet other people who are far more highly skilled overtly more competent, they just seem to hit a wall. And it says, though there's a success barometer in their brain that every time they get to a certain level of success, and it looks like it's going to beyond it.
Something internally just pulls them back again, and it takes a force of will. Or you tell me, what does it take to move beyond the well.
There'S a couple of really obvious examples out there in the real world of exactly what you just described. So take what's his name? I forgot his name. Now. Jamie Cook, the chef.
Jamie Jamie Oliver.
Jamie Oliver. That's the one. Thank you, Bob. Jamie Oliver. Most chefs look at him now, and he's a rubbish chef. But what he's done from a personal branding perspective is he's incredibly good at inspiring people. He's got this energy that a lot of the chefs don't have. It's a very positive energy. He to create change. And he's just gone full force with his books with his restaurants, which, sadly, he suffered a couple of years ago and things like that. And he's built this amazing, like, personal brand where most chefs in the industry kind of looked down on him because, actually, he's not what they would consider to be one of the best chefs.
But what he has done is he's inspired millions of people to start cooking from home and be creative with the recipes, which they use. Another example of this. Joe Wicks really came to the forefront during the pandemic when he was doing his living room gym sessions for kids and things like that and all the pair in forcefully to jump around their front room and things. But again, you ask a personal trainer what they think of Joe Wicks, and they all scoff. They're all like, he's the worst personal trainer on this planet.
But again, look at what he's done from a branding perspective, from a marketing and sales perspective. He's absolutely nailed it. But it's because he brings this right sort of energy. He's not worried about other people judging him. He's got this mission, which he's on the same as Jamie Oliver, to inspire people to start doing more of something with Jamie Oliver. It's cooking and eating healthily with Joe Wicks. It's about being healthy and movement and exercise. I love that sort of thing. And I think we can play it safe and worry about what other people are going to think of us.
Or Consequently, the opposite side of that is a fearless with what we're doing. We have to stand by our purpose and our mission and push on with the irrespective of those sort of naysayers and the people who are kind of knocking us back the negative people. And I think when you can kind of cut through that, the truth is, Bob, like, I say something slightly controversial here. I think sometimes not. Sometimes I think there's a majority of people who start up a business thinking somehow it's going to be easy.
They do it for the wrong reasons. I just to make money, and they're not willing to push themselves outside their comfort zone. And Lo and behold, they don't make much success on progress or gain much success from it because they're not willing to kind of break the mould. And then the people you see were the most successful. I mean, look at somebody like Elon Musk. I mean, people think he's a bit nuts, but look at what he's achieved, all of the money and time it took for NASA to put Rockets into space, and he's done it in a third of the time, starting from scratch with barely any money or funds.
It's just absolutely incredible. And he's the sort of guy who's just like I did, there's a cost, obviously, if we fail, if he seen rocket ships up and then they crash, there's obviously a massive cost to that. But he's like, I'm going to do it anyway, and I think we need business owners need to think more like that. I'm just going to give it a go irrespective of how ridiculous everybody thinks my idea is.
I think what I really like listening to that is, yes, there are negative consequences. But the examples of Jamie Oliver and Joe Wicks and I apologise to the US audience. If you don't know who they are, Google it. They're people who quite clearly are focused on the positive consequences, the negative consequences there there anyway. But the truth is if you do what other people haven't done, you'll get what other people haven't got a yeah, it comes down to vision at the end of the day. And I think really, that brings me to what you were talking about.
Lots of people start a business to get a job. But actually, you can do much more than that. If you bring in a little bit of vision and the vision that genuinely excites you inspires you, then you'll start doing the things that require a little bit of courage and achieving what other people have. It because most people won't cross that divide. And I think it's easier to cross the most people appreciate.
Yeah, 100%. We have a sort of almost a qualification process when we speak to business owners, and we're obviously their business. The business idea is important. Don't get me wrong, but actually it's the person behind the business, which it makes the difference. Are they willing to be challenged on their way of thinking? That's quite important. Are they willing to try out new ideas, but not just like, one of the biggest mistakes business owners make is they try and, like, perfect everything before they put it out into the world for fear of judgement.
So if they all got this thing out there, that's not finished, that's not perfect. They think that somehow, like they're not going to get any feedback, or if they do get feedback, it will be negative. And somehow it's going to fail. But now there's a great book called The Lean Startup by Eric Rees, where he talks about imagine if he spent twelve months like building the perfect product and then put it out into the ether, you know, one nobody knows about it. So you don't have an audience there to start off with.
But the second thing is my idea of a product, the perfect product, Bob, is probably quite different to your idea of the perfect product. And if I don't have that feedback from Bob in terms of, like, what he feels works in my product and what doesn't how can I improve it? So what Eric Reef talks about the Lean Startup is this process whereby, well, let's see if we can build 80% of the finished article within months one. Then we'll put it out into the world will ask for some early adopters to be to test it.
So now we're starting to build an audience and have those conversations they can then feed back to us what's working and what doesn't work and what features they want to see in the next iteration. And if we then iterate like month on month on month. The product by the end of month twelve is very different to the product that the business owner would have just built if it was based on their own ideology, their own ideas because you've iterated twelve times with all the feedback and now when we launched that final version, we've got a prebuilt audience of people who are now raving fans because we've listened to them.
And it's such a powerful concept. So I always encourage business owners to launch and fail and fail fast because you get the feedback you start those conversations off. People can see as well like what it is that you're trying to achieve, and then they can be bought into that mission and go on that journey with you.
I love that. I think what I would like to talk about next is pricing, because that's something I know you focus on quite often, and I think it is an issue a lot of people have. There's a lot of anxiety and fear and pricing because it the moment of truth when the price comes out. It's often when a lot of great whites fail in when a lot of proposals maybe don't do what they could have done for your business, because you probably underpriced. I'm curious to hear from you as somebody who spends a lot of time in this space, the pricing mistakes you see people making, and I guess what are some hacks or some strategies that they can use to try and mitigate those mistakes that they're making all the time?
Yes. So the most common mistake is actually charging what everybody else charges. So I always recommend people and starting up in business to go and have not just starting up, but go and review it regularly, but go and look and see what the competition are doing, especially from a pricing perspective. The mistake, however, is to assume that those businesses are doing is the correct way to price the business. So correct way to price their products or services. So the reason for this is like, you know, you can have a whole load of people who are charging a specific price.
But imagine you've got, I don't know, five people selling websites. And so Bob's looking at Dave, Dave looking at John, John's looking at Rachel, Rachel is looking at Susan and Susan's looking at Bob, which one of those five people is an expert in pricing? The reality is probably none of them. Are they've all just kind of winged it. So the other thing as well is that you know what Dave's charging? He may be operating his business at a loss because he wants to undercut the others in order to get business in.
So why would we copy a business model that is fundamentally flawed and losing money, it just wouldn't work eventually. We're going to fail as well. So a better way to look at it is actually when you do go and look at our competitors, look at the cheapest, look at all those in the middle. But also, you know, there's one business out there in your niche. Ho is the most expensive, and the likely it is that that one who is the most expensive has probably got more Google reviews.
Maybe they've been around for longer. Maybe they've collected more video testimonials, but the clue and we always here. We've got to look out for clues. I've got to be detectives in the business world to work out what works and what doesn't the clue is that the most expensive. And yet they're still getting clients. So that means there's an opportunity and you alluded to this. And something you said earlier on, if somebody else is already out there doing it, the likelier is that you probably could too.
But the reality is, like most people, when it comes to pricing, they may choose to be the cheapest to undercut people very quickly realise that that's not serving the because theyre not making enough money. And they also don't want to be perceived as the cheapest in the market because that's also not good positioning. But they also don't want to be seen as the most expensive because they believe. And this is down to belief and confidence and mindset. At this point. They believe that if they're the most expensive, nobody's going to buy from them.
But as we've said, there's somebody is out there who is the most expensive and they're getting clients. So the proof is in the pudding. So they kind of settle in the middle. And then again, they're scratching the heads each month going one, I own the money, which I'm worth. So that's the first most common pricing mistake, the second most common pricing mistake, which people make is around they actually charge. This is more so relevant to service based businesses. So graphic designers, web designers, consultants, freelancers those sorts of businesses.
So charging times for money, hourly rates and day rates now all sorts of different directions. I could go with this, but this is a topic I can talk about, like all day long. But here's a really clear example of how time for money is fundamentally flawed. Okay, now if you took I'm using web designers as an example, because I used to run a web design business for twelve years before I started coaching and people want to access to me to learn more about this productization process and pricing.
If you took two web designers and they're both charging £50 now because they don't know what Robin knows about pricing. But you've got one person, you know, on the one hand, who has just started and web design, maybe they're not particularly efficient working very quickly. They don't get great results because they don't know all of the tips and tricks and hacks in order to get your website optimised and all that good stuff. They're designs not fantastic, but they're charging 50 pound an hour. In a way, they are off they go.
They designed the website. Then, on the other hand, you've got this other person who's been in the industry for 20 years, builds websites because they're super fast, doesn't know what Robin knows about prices. They're still charging 50 pan out they get amazing results and their sites look brilliant. Well, all of a sudden, you've got this beginner. Let's say they got this beginner. Web design is charging 50 pound now, and it takes him 30 hours to build a website. So he's getting paid 1500 pounds for it.
And then on the flip side of that, you've got the pro, does it super fast and gets amazing results. But does it in 10 hours like he's getting paid a third of the price for doing a much better job? It just doesn't make sense. It's just baffling. And the way to overcome this, Bob is then this is about the value proposition. This is when we get into how do you actually go about articulating your value so we can elevate the position of this. This veteran web design has been at for 20 years.
One he's got to believe in his worth. He's got to be able to stand there constantly and say, Listen, I'm really good at what I do. The second thing is we can then start to introduce something like a guarantee. No, nothing. I'm going to caveat this. Nothing in life is guaranteed. But what we do offer is something called a perceived value guarantee. So this pro, this veteran has been doing it 20 years. If you can stand there and say, Listen, I build amazing websites, I'm pretty certain that if I build this website within the next 30 days, it will be generating 15 to 20 new leads a month for your business.
And that's going to add 20K to the top line, depending on whatever your products are worth. If we're not generating that number of leads within 30 days, I tell you what I'll do. I'll give you money back and I'll pay you a thousand pounds for wasting your time. So the value proposition is like, so it's really powerful when you start to hear that. Now, if we got into pricing and the process will actually, the price of my website is ten K. Right. So he's like, eight to ten times the price of the guy who's just starting out.
But he's got this really cast in solid guarantee and that confident in my ability to get your results, you know, 15 to 20 leads to a month, which is going to grow your business. And if I can't do that, I'll give your money back and pay you some extra money on top. Which one would you choose? You'd probably be okay. Well, this guy is charging a lot more, but he's got the guarantee on it. Versus this guy is like what built very many websites. That's his value proposition.
So that the second mistake is around charging time for money. And hopefully I've given you an example have how to kind of articulate the value better. And the third mistake. And this is a final one, Bob, and then not throw it back over to you is around discounting. So the mistake is discounting the core product that sits at the heart of your business. So most people they'll offer discounts. If you were to take their personal trainer, for example, you buy one session and it's £80. But if you buy a block of eight, they reduced their price down to £60 a session because there's somebody is buying a block of products really common.
And everybody knows the business that's done this. We probably bought from businesses that do this and I do believe in rewarding loyalty. And there's other ways to reward loyalty. However, if somebody comes for eight sessions versus just buying one session, the likely it is they're going to get a much better result or outcome. So why all of a sudden do they have to pay? Does the client pay less for getting a better result? Again, when you put it like that, it just doesn't make sense. So I never discount a core product.
And there's also mass behind this. So the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants here in the UK to the study on this for the average business. And this varies depending on what gross profit your business is sort of putting out for the average business, though, if you discount by just 10%, you have to sell 25% more of exactly the same thing in order to make the same net profit.
And that's quite stark. Most people assume that if I do a rent discount, I've only got to make rent more sales. Alright to make the same money. But now it's the money falls down through your profit and loss account like the cost compound. So it actually had to get imagine all of a sudden having to put 20 more effort into your business just to make the same money again, it just doesn't make sense. So discounting like massively erode profitability. There's a big however, and the I'll finish in about 20 seconds.
So he, however, is you can put out things called attraction offers. So if you have like a one time thing widget which somebody can buy, which gets them through the door discount that some people you'll have heard it called a loss leader and attraction offer. There's all sorts of different names for these things. Lead magnets, for example, paid lead magnets, but give it away, give it away at a discount or whatever, but to get people through the door because then once you've built up the now like and trust and this person wants to work with you, then now they're paying for their core products, which is where the customer lifetime value is built.
So hopefully that makes sense. Or he's a bit of a diatribe of those three most common mistakes, Bob, but he that's going to be helpful to somebody who's just starting out or already in business.
Now I was super helpful. I think anybody should have got some value from that, I think was particularly interesting around the guarantee side of things is it sounds terrifying. I mean, can you imagine building a ten grand website and then saying, if it doesn't guarantee 15 leads a month, if I can deliver you 15, I'm going to give you your money back as somebody similar to you ran a web design business for nearly 20 years. That's a terrifying idea. But what it does mean is you have to pick your clients carefully.
You can pick clients that you know are going to lose. And then the other side of that is you offer a guarantee like that and your clients carefully word will get around that you back winners, and the word of mouth will start to spread. Your clients will do the marketing for you. And you will importantly start to attract the right clients. That's some very interesting psychology. There's not something you could necessarily do overnight, because if you are networking in the wrong places, if you are speaking to the wrong people, if you aren't being fearless in your own marketing, if you're not setting this beaker and attracting the right people, then that guarantee will kill you.
That's it. I call it having skin in the game. But essentially, when you build a product from a service so that productization process, there's kind of three things which you need to really heavily focus on three simple questions. The first one is, who do I love working with? The second one is, how do I get the best results with my products or services? And then Consequently to that, when you start to get into the mechanics of products, it's going to be around. So defining over what time period and for a fixed fee.
And if you can get those three things, sort of working in harmony. Like most people, when they think about, like, avatars or ideal clients or your niche, they think about marketing. They think about a market niche. But actually, this is all about understanding your super power. What is your product niche? You need to you need to define both of those and have, like, a vertical, a really specific idea of who is my ideal client, right? I'm only going to work with coaches and what is my product.
My product is teaching them on how to charge more. Okay. And and occasionally I know when I fall down myself, it's because I've deviated from that. I've maybe taken on a client who doesn't fit that ideal sort of client. Avatar who maybe doesn't want to be challenged, doesn't understand what mindset they need to start to shift into in order to kind of create that success. Or maybe maybe actually, rather than sticking with pricing, I start to talk about marketing or something like a different area. So the product niche in the market niche both need to work together.
I think that like you've alluded to the businesses which really suffer and struggle are the ones who are like all things to all men. So not any. They just serving all of the same. This is a matter. Bug bear. Bob, it always gets me when I ask people like, who's your ideal clients say SMEs small medium enterprises. Here in the UK, we have 6 million businesses registered. Okay. Bob, ask me how many of those are large businesses?
Very, very few, like 5% less than that.
30,000 of those are considered large businesses. Okay. So it's less than 5% of them. Right. So a large business in the UK is considered 250 or more employees. Okay. So, you know, there are a lot of businesses which fit in that ten to 250 employees businesses which I would consider to be sort of mid sized. But basically SME is not a niche. It's everybody. It's every business. And so you need to be always laugh and tell people the story, and then they let alright, get it now.
So then you have to start to really sort of nail it down. The other mistake people make as well, like, from a market niche perspective, is they'll focus very heavily on demographics and psychographics. Okay. So which are helpful to a point so that we'll have this idea of this remarkable entrepreneur called Bob, who I think you're in your forties, aren't you? Bob runs a podcast. So those are all psychographics and demographics. But actually, you know, what we want is something which makes Bob really stand out as an avatar.
So now we need a really specific nation. Typically, this tends to be something like industry. So it might be people like Bob who run a podcast in the entrepreneurship category on on itunes. So it's like Super Super, super specific, because then there's probably only, like, 50 or 100 other bobs out there that we can then start to have conversations with. So you need to kind of really dial it into that specific sort of industry sector that you want to work in or work within as well.
And again, that's about being fearless, because most people go all of a sudden I've like, there's 350,000 Bobs that I can't work with. I'm cutting out a massive chunk of the marketplace. Yeah. But the reality is like if I walk into a room and say, hey, room of 100 people and I stand up at the front and say, Listen, I'm looking to connect with somebody who runs a personal brand entrepreneur show as a podcast. Like, there's only one person that's going to stand up when I say that it feels like I'm talking to Bob, and that's the bit of branding and messaging that people just don't get and they have to get over themselves.
And actually, what's interesting is really this brings it full circle, because if you are somebody who is accustomed to building a business through local networking, that cutting out a large number of people and being that specific is going to be terrifying because you have a limited catchment area to work with, which is why sort of levelling up online playing a bigger game, building a personal brand, being super visible and really tried to reach into people's lives very differently will allow you to access those people in a way that other people just couldn't.
I think there are 7 billion people on the planet, but we're so used to thinking about our little local catchment area that we forget that these days nobody cares where you are, especially after this pandemic. People are so accustomed to working with people online, it's become normal that if you will sort of get over the anxieties in particular that you might have about showing up online because it's so alien, because it does ask you to be different. There's a whole world available to you, and it kind of brings me to where I wanted to go next, which is your books you've written.
Take your shot. You've also written online business start up, which I think is very relevant in this conversation, but never have an author on the show. I'm curious to ask him, because for a lot of people writing a book, it does look like a bridge too far, something that can't comprehend doing. So I have to ask you, was the process of producing those books, like for you?
Great question. I have a very unique process before I say that, though, like most people in business, they believe it or not, they've probably already written a book and they don't realise it. So we all encourage in 21st century sort of marketing to be writing blog articles, posting stuff up on to LinkedIn and all of different social media channels. We'll encourage to be producing videos for YouTube and again on Instagram and things like that. We'll encourage to either be on podcasts or host a podcast or and all of that is good quality content that could be essentially repurposed into a book.
So now coming to my process. So for online business startup, I actually I did a business programme myself, and there's a part of that several years ago. Now part of that was around publishing a book, and we were given a challenge to write 30,000 words in 30 days. And the way I looked at it was, well, that's 30,000 word, 30 days, a thousand were today. I had a little insight. I did a I just thought because I hate sitting in front of like a word Doc and just typing stuff up.
I love talking as you can probably gather, Bob. So I thought, oh, I'll just record my introduction into my phone and I discovered a little app called Rev. Com, which it's a human transcription service. There's machine transcription service like AI tools, which will transcribe stuff for you be there. I've only ever found them to be sort of 70 80% accurate, whereas Rev. Com it costs a little bit more, but it's actual human transcription, so it's near enough bang on the bat and word for word and very accurate even without the typo and things.
But ten minutes worth of audio is most people speak at about 100 to 120 words a minute. So ten minutes worth of audio once it's been transcribed and edited, is worth about a thousand words. So I was like, great. So if I have 30 chapters and there were three sections in the book. So I was doing ten chapters in each section and each chapter is going to be a thousand words, I picked the topic, have five bullet points. And then when I had an office in town on my driving to work, I just dictate the chapter and those five bullets, two minutes on each one on my drive into the office, which is only about ten or 15 minutes.
Set fire it off to Rev dot com. By lunch time. I'd have the transcription back, which I would then edit, and that would then go into the draught. And I did that repeat for 30 days. Pretty much so that's where online business startup came from. And it's actually the same methodology, same technique I used to for take your Shot orbit, Take Your Shot is a slightly different books. It's told us a story. So there was a lot more thought process which had to go into that and the actual rating part of it.
There was a bit clunky because there was lots of mistakes, pauses for me to think and various things like that. But yeah, it was. It was simply that 30 chapters, 30 sets of ten minutes each day, send it off to Rev. Com edited. And there's your first draught. Most people they like I said, I've got podcast, interviews, videos, blog articles, things like that they can could with a bit of thought, just pull all of that content just into a draught and actually probably got a book or two already written for most people.
The wheels are turning to the other question I need to ask is okay, books are written. What most people are hopefully thinking is what impact has that had on your business? What's the fruit of that been for you?
Yeah. So online business startup, that was my first book and that came out in 2014 or 2015. So that sold 15,000 copies. That was back in the days that when I was still running the web design business. So it is for a slightly different audience. But the best thing about that was it open doors, podcast hosts, speaking, opportunity, speaker, organised event organisers. They love people with books because they generally come with offerings for the gift back and things like that. And also it demonstrate. Is it any wonder that the word author appears in the word authority like a book does present you as an authority in your niche.
My first set of 30 YouTube videos as well were also pulled from that content. So again, that launched me into another space, another channel. So it kind of just amplifies the message which you're trying to put out. And so that was great from a personal branding perspective. And then again with Take Your Shot. I was slightly more strategic with that book because one of the bits feedback I got with online business startup, it's kind of more of a dry how to book, and it ended up being 55,000 words.
It's quite lengthy, and people were saying that it's great, but I had to kind of chunk it down and read it kind of piecemeal in the same way as I had to write it, chunk it down. So I want to take your shot. I was much more commercial. I wanted a book that was sub 100 pages that you could read in a couple of hours in one sitting that had five really strong salient like takeaways from it around goal setting, productization and pricing that people could put into their business like today and see the results.
You tomorrow. And I also did it as a story because I love a good story. I like getting involved in the characters in it. So I actually ended up being like a fable if you like a parable about one of my early coaching clients who was this golf pro called Russ. And I won't get all of the spoiler alerts, but basically takes you on his journey of transformation. He meets a coach, he gets given these five lessons, and then, Lo and behold, he starts to kind of his business transforms, his life transforms.
And the one piece of feedback I love about Take Your Shot is everybody tells me I could really empathise with the character like Russ. That's how I feel in my business. And you know that you've got a good hook when that happens. And for me, it's like I just want to spread the word. I give so many copies of that book away for free because I know how impactful it is. And I know that business owners need help. So yes, it's been great. It's one of the best things I've ever done is getting into writing books.
Yeah, it's something I think should be on a lot of people's radar because, like you said, I mean, we're in the this is the press to brand entrepreneur show. And a book really is the one thing that will seal your authority. And every book is helpful for someone. And I think what's more important than the pros and the writing style and the literary element is the information that you're transmitting. It might be a literary failure in terms of its not very well written. But if the information is great and it can change someone's life, then there is a place for it.
And I think this is the thing. Business books, they don't need to be incredibly well written. They need to contain incredibly good information. And if you're good at what you do and you've developed your own way of doing it, you have a framework and a framework in a book for the right person is golden and honestly, how many people do we need to impact with a book in order to have a fantastic business? The truth is not very many, certainly not 15,000.
And I tell you what, it's going to sound terribly cliched, Bob, but I'm going to say it anyway, but I always tell people I didn't write online business start up online business startup wrote me. It was a process that pulled out all of this information, the story that I wanted to sort of get out there into the world, but it made me do it in a very organised fashion. And then immediately it gave me the confidence because up to that point, I'd run this business for twelve years and the marketing business of twelve years, and it really kind of looked internally at my own levels of confidence and self belief and mindset and things like that.
But actually, I write in the book. It's like, oh, I can do it. I've got this. Yeah, brilliant. I can educate people and be a leader, a thought leader and things like that. So yeah, I always say to people the book wrote me, I didn't write it and unlocked Pandora's box now because I think I'm on in the process of writing 7th book now, believe it or not. But this one is going to be this is the book just on pricing. So it's everything I've learned over the last five years about money, mindset, pricing and things like that.
Very exciting. It's going to be the self named feel as business book, basically. So just again to help amplify the brand, which we've created around the coaching Practise. But yes, it's exciting. Actually, I've got a bit. I know we're running short of time here now, but I heard a story recently of a guy, a friend of mine, one of his buddies for years have been saying, I want to write a book. I want to write a book. And my mate kept on checking him with him.
If you started the book, have you written the book? And this guy is super bright? So, so, so bright. I had all these amazing ideas. Very sadly, he passed away last year because of cover and he hadn't written the book, and it obviously sad for obvious reasons because I passed away. But he's gone. And all the ideas have gone with him and that I kind of think there's an element of it in a way, I don't know. Selfish. Is it the wrong word is really harsh, but it's kind of like, I think if you have an idea burning inside you, we need to hear that it's selfish if you keep hold of that idea and don't share it with people in something like a book.
Yeah. It is a strange form of immortality.
Yeah. And that's my legacy. I was listening to something about, you know, some people talking about legacies on clubhouse this morning and I was thinking, yeah, you know what? I may not know we can leave a bit of wealth for our family and things like that. But actually, if you leave something like a book, it's going to stand the test of time. It's always going to have been written. It will always be there. And for a while it hopefully it will generate some royalties for my family as well.
You know, after I've gone, but people can look back at that and go or Daddy wrote a book. Granddad wrote a my great grandfather was an author and he wrote these amazing business books.
So I guess I'm quite happy to run a little longer because I want to speak about how clients actually engage with you, what your process is for, actually delivering your value to the world from a very practical perspective, business to business. So what does engaging with your business actually look like?
Yes. So I mean, I believe in making an impact and community, and sometimes that means doing stuff for free. I know I'm the pricing guy, but actually, sometimes not everybody, certainly in the start can afford. I think business knowledge is something that everybody should have access to. So we do with all of our clients. Everybody gets a free copy of Take Your Shot up Front, the paperback if they're based here in the UK and sometimes further afield around the world as well. O a free 30 minutes diagnostic core.
We actually just explore your existing offer for your business. We typically work with coaches, consultants and freelancers. So people in that time for money space service client businesses. But I will always have a chat with other business owners as well, because I want to help other people. And then, yeah, in terms of the programme. So we focus very heavily on that offer. Articulation like, what is it that you actually sell? How do you articulate the value of that offer? How do you attract clients in and make sure qualify, make sure they're a good fit for your business.
We go through that whole sort of productisation piece. We explore pricing and where your money mindset is at. And that's a really fun process because it can actually happen very quickly and there's little sort of four to six weeks. You can start to get the mindset shifts required to go through the gears pricing wise. And we had a client who came into the programme who literally got a return on their investment with us within five days because they joined. They got into one of our weekly group coaching calls, had a mindset shift around how they price their products.
And they had two pitches. Our weekly calls, one of our weekly calls on the Wednesday, they pitched a client client on the Thursday and another client on the Friday. Both ended up saying, yes, it doubled the price that they previously would have pitched it on the Monday, so they got a return on investment. Thus within five days, which is remarkable and that's kind of like abnormal in terms of like how long it takes. Typically, it's about three to six months worth of kind of just going through the gears, learning the foundational stuff with fearless business and then starting to apply with practical, like actually putting out to the world because we can make a lot of assumptions around pricing, especially.
Or if I put my prices up, nobody will pay for it. That's an assumption, and it's based on a core belief. We've got. The only way we have know for sure is if we go out and pitch ten people at a higher price point and get some data back. And typically that takes about four to six weeks, and then the final part of it is actually around sales. And this is probably where most people go. The sales trainer. No, we don't do sales training. What we do is we just do sales practise.
We do role plays on the weekly calls and a lot of fun. We normally have lots of laughter and giggles because of the way we handle those sales role plays. And there's a serious side to it as well, because I believe as well a lot of people give you this information as business coaches, and it's like a social hand grenade. They pull out the pin and throw you into with prospective clients. Whereas I'm like, no, no, let's practise the sales conversation in a really safe like environment on a group coaching call so that you can hear how I handle things like objections articulate the value of your offer back to you.
So I always become the client. They become one of their slightly tricky clients, and it's just a really good fun. And then the other thing as well. This is important. You don't need a coach for this. I encourage anybody, like in the world we live in today. Most of us are doing business via Zoom. There's an option in Zoom to auto record all of your calls. I would encourage you to record all of your sales calls and periodically listen back to one or two of them.
Because one of the things I've noticed business ones when they're really in the having that pointy conversation with somebody, their field of view, the focus narrows and they miss clues around asking the right sorts of qualification questions. If somebody raises a rejection early about price, did they pick up on it, even on body language and stuff like that when you're in the zone, don't spot those things if you're not trained to do it. So what? I always encourage people to do record your sales conversations and then watch them back or listen back to them afterwards because again, I inspect to clue you be like, oh, gosh, I can't believe I said that or I didn't pick up on that.
Isn't it interesting when I told them this, their body language shifted all the stuff, which the moment you normally just miss it's a lot of fun. I like to think it's quite different to a lot of the coaching programmes out there.
It certainly sounds like certainly I'm intrigued. Robin, if anybody wants to connect with you, which is your favourite social media platform and how would you prefer people to contact you?
Yeah, the best bet is to jump on to probably Instagram and my tag for that as Robin M for Mark Wait and also like, do you go and grab a copy of Take Your Shot as well. So if you go to the Feelers website rates for Take your Shot or hit the Resources tab, you can go and grab a free copy of the book as well and start your Feelers business journey.
I'll put a link to that in the show notes and Robin need to end with the question every guest has to answer and that's what's one thing you do now that you should start at five years ago.
That's such a good question. So for me. So it's a poignant story to this, but I'll keep it brief. In 2016, I had a bit of a breakdown in running the agency. It was busy, it was frenetic had a team of four people who were slightly dysfunctional. Anyway, I ended up giving up the business. I did sell it for a modest sum and it was enough for me to start the coaching practise off, but with it now, looking back and what I know now about business, what I've learnt about business and business coaching over the last five years, I actually wished that I hung on to that business.
And so my point here is about at the time I thought I was a business doer and I couldn't see a way out of the business and I was out of the business. But like completely exited at whereas actually now with a business owner hat on and the investor and wealth build a sort of mindset which I've learnt over the last few years. I have actually kept that business, put somebody else in it to run it. And I think it would have been a blinding success.
But hey, that's the benefit of hindsight. And I share that story just as a word of caution. If anybody is thinking about like giving up their business, there is always a way. It's just that right now you're probably too ingrained in the business. You need to find a way to kind of pull yourself out of that and work on the business. Not in it.
That's a great answer. Robin. We thank you so much for your time. You've been a great guest. There's been a lot of fun.
That's my pleasure. Bob. Really appreciate you inviting me on. Thank you.
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