Episode Overview

Some are motivated by money and others are motivated by purpose.  Most of us fall somewhere in between.  

This week on the podcast I’m speaking about purpose, passion, making money, doing good, taking chances and living like life is short with Richie Norton. 

No matter what motivates you, you’ll find something to fire you up for the year in this very special episode.

About Richie Norton

Richie Norton is the award-winning, bestselling author of the book The Power of Starting Something Stupid (in 10+ languages) and Résumés Are Dead & What to Do About It.

In 2019, Richie was named one of the world’s top 100 business coaches by Dr. Marshall Goldsmith. He is an international speaker (including TEDx & Google Startup Grind) & serial entrepreneur.


Automatic Audio Transcription

Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription.  There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.  

Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show today. On the show, Bob is speaking with Richie Norton.

If I tell myself, how can I get that dream when I retire and you're going to work 40 years to have that dream when you retire, whether you get it or not is unknown and likely not because things change too much over 40 years. But if you say, how can I live my dream today and create work in a way that I'm paid, that helps me live it. Now you will think differently. Doesn't mean you have the answer yet, but your brain works like a calculator. If you tell yourself I can do this, you know what?

You're probably going to learn and figure out some way to do it somehow. If you tell yourself you can't do it, it's not true that you can't necessarily, but it is true that your brain is going to stop thinking about it. So by asking a better question, how can I do this thing without that bad thing happening in this amount of time? It can create space for your mind to be able to dwell on that while you're running or getting ready or working out or doing whatever.

And then you start coming up with Creative Solutions.

Hi there. And welcome back to Amplify The Personal Brand Entrepreneurship. My name is Bob Gentle, and every week I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. If you're new to the show, take a second right now to subscribe and whichever player you use. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, make sure to click the new follow option in the top right in the app. That way, Apple will queue me up every time I post a new episode. And that way we both win.

So before I jump into introducing this week's guest, just a quick reminder that after nearly 200 of these interviews, I've learned a thing or two about what makes business work online. And it turns out success doesn't leave clues. And I want to offer you at least a partial map. So jump over to my website and grab a copy of the Personal Brand Business Roadmap is everything you need to start, scale or just fix your personal brand businesses yours for free as a gift from me. And speaking of gifts this week, my guest is the author of The Power of Starting Something Stupid.

One of my favourite people on Earth lives in a crazy place where the time is all upside down. Richie Norton, welcome to the show.

I'm so excited to be here from Upside down land.

I love that it's 10:00 A.m. For you. It's 08:00 P.m. For me. Every time this happens, it's very hard to get my head around. So, yeah, how are you today?

I'm just waking up. You're going to sleep? Yes, I know. Hawaii is wonderful. It's nice and warm, but as we were talking pre show, it actually feels super cold, relatively speaking, because it's raining, but happy days are here, as they say. And I'm Super excited to be talking to you. Scotland, of all places, is my favourite place in the world and excited to visit there again soon and gosh wherever we live in the world, we can just make the most of it. I hope some places are harder to love than others, but I think everywhere you live you can make magic.

So it's a good day for the listener who doesn't know you. Why don't you start just by telling us a little bit about who you are, where you are and what your universe looks like?

Okay, you know what I'll do it chronologically. I'll do it real quick, but I grew up in San Diego, California. Born and raised, I lived in Brazil for a couple of years, actually, as a service missionary, I speak Portuguese, so when I visit Portugal, it's really fun too, to be able to speak Portuguese there. But I miss Brazil. Brazil's. Amazing. I now live in Hawaii. I'm married. I have four boys. Our youngest actually passed away. He caught pertussis or whooping cough as a baby. We've had foster children and we do our best to just love everyone where they are and do whatever we need to do to help and really, just to find ways to be happy, even when you're not happy.

Life's hard and our family experienced a lot of grief. My wife had a stroke at one point and lost her memory. My son got hit by a car and almost died. I go on and on and on, but these weird experiences in life gave me an interesting perspective on business, and that perspective is what I call Gavin's Law. My son that passed away is named Gavin and also my wife's brother, who had passed away at 21 in his sleep, was named Gavin. I call it Gavin's Law, which is live to Start to live, which means live to start those ideas that are pressing on your mind right now and you'll really start living.

Too many people just wait and wait and wait and they wonder why things aren't changing when in the same moment they're having these wonderful ideas. I know it's hard to get to push through the inertia and all that, but my work with my book, The Power of Starting Something Stupid, has been to help people feel and hear those inner promptings and to do something about them, but not to do them later, but to do them right now. And even if you don't have the time, education, experience or money that you can leverage existing resources, find people to help you and work around that.

So there's a little synopsis there, but I write. I have these books. I do coaching, consulting. I do courses and I realised a lot of people wanted to make physical products. I have a background in social entrepreneurship and helping people create and sell products to work their way out of poverty. And I'm working with all kinds of people, influencers and people in academia, professionals, big Fortune 100 companies where we actually work on all kinds of different projects, including making physical products, everything from the ideation phase to creating it, making it packaging, it warehousing.

It the whole deal, fulfilling it. At the end of the day, people say why you do so many different things. I even have a company where we edit videos for creators. And I go look to me, it's not many different things. Honestly, to me, Bob is one thing, and that is to give people their time back is to work in a way that creates time that takes time. And so all these different tangents that would look like to me, it's like one store and inside of different products and services to help you get what you want, feed your family and have the time and ability to be flexible and live the way you would hope to live.

So that's real quick background what I'm doing and kind of why I do it. And I hope that even in our conversation, we can talk about ways we can just help people figure it out. You never know what the future holds, but that's why we work in the present.

Well, figuring it out is something that I want to speak to you about today, and it's actually very rare that I have somebody on the show with an agenda. I have an agenda. Usually these things are simply like that person looks like they're doing something really cool. I want to know more about it. But this particular thing that I want to speak about today, I often find myself thinking about it, and I often think I wonder what Richie Norton would think. I mean, I think that a lot.

What would Richard Norton do? It's kind of my north star.

I like you. You're awesome.

But this particular thing, I think Richie is probably one of the few people that I could speak about this and have it mean something. And the question is, I work with people. You work with people all the time. And some people are super driven. They know where they're going, they know what they want to do. But sometimes you meet people that are incredible. You can tell that there's a magic in there. They have genius. But that genius doesn't seem to just spark. They don't seem to have direction.

There's no burning hunger. And if you look at anybody in the world is doing incredible things. They're driven, they know where they're going, they know what they're doing. But there are others. And there are many others that they just never quite seem to work out what they're for, who they're for, what lights them up. And I remember reading a book the other day, and it was a work of fiction. But this phrase, working in the board of minds leapt out at me, and it hasn't gone away.

I just keep thinking about all these people who are working in jobs in order to make a living so that they can buy food, pay rent to live so they can go to work to make a living. And it's just this endless hamster wheel that can't be fulfilling in the way that I'm imagining. So I guess I'm trying to come around to the question. You can probably sense what the question is. I probably should have written it down, but how can we help people? I mean, this question all began with the idea of Niching, how do you find your niche?

But it's actually bigger than that and says, you're a smart guy, and you can probably hear the question, is there anything jumping out for where you would go with this question?

I think it's what you're saying. First of all, people want to do things, but they don't do them, and then they don't really know why they don't do them, right? And there's intrinsic motivation, which is from the inside. There's extrinsic motivation, which is pressure from the outside or rewards that you could get from the outside. But then it starts to get complicated when you start bringing in like the way we think the way we were raised, you know, maybe we even have add. You know what I mean?

I don't know what it is or depression. At the end of the day. It all happens in our brain, right? And we either see opportunities or we don't. But it's really frustrating when we see an opportunity and we still don't do something about it when we want to. It's actually super. It might be easier to talk about an individual and then expand that to others rather than a group of people, and then see if it distils down to the individual. But whoever's listening to this, I hope you apply this.

There's something that Aristotle talked about. He called it final cause. He had these four causes, and I won't go through each one of them. But the idea was at the end of the day, an Acorn becomes an Oak tree, and the final cost of the Acorn over these four stages, eventually or whatever it is, is to become this Oak tree. And there's an example that people like to use too of a table. Let me give you this example. And then we can talk about the motivations of getting things done.

And then, maybe even more importantly, whether it actually needs to get done at all and stop punishing yourself when you're not doing it or also how to do things differently and think differently in a way that works for you. I personally believe that it's not actually like a goal. If it's something you already know how to do, that's just a task you're going to give yourself to. This is Richie Norton speaking, making things up right. To me. People just set goals beyond their current abilities. Otherwise, there's no stretching, you never grow, you never become something else.

So in that sense, it's not about getting out of your comfort zone, really, but expanding your comfort zone so far that your goals and dreams fit within. This is a very different way of thinking, because each time you set that goal outside, you might be stressed out about not doing it. When you picture yourself expanding your comfort zone to make that goal fit inside, even though it's in the same spot, you're unable to do things and think differently. Here's where I'm going with this final cost thing.

If somebody says, for example and I've read this example, but I'm going to apply it in different way. If someone says they want to build a table, they're going to go out and they're going to get either the wood or the metal or the parts or whatever they need to do to build the table. They have the materials. Somebody's going to the actor, the person that does the actions, someone is going to put it together. The table is going to be built, and eventually the final cause of that table is going to be dinner with your family.

Let's just use that as an example.


What's interesting, though, is this is where it gets like, I don't know, something to think about. If you're trying to accomplish something and you tell yourself your goal is to build a table, you're going to build a table or buy a table, something's going to happen. But if the real goal, the goal beyond the goal was the dinner with your family. If that was in essence, the whole purpose of this goal for a table, then, in essence, you don't need the table at all. You can go to McDonald's, you can go to a food truck, you can do Uber eats or whatever delivery systems going on over there in Scotland, right?

You can do something else and then you go, what's the purpose is it a dinner with my family? Is it by myself? Am I bringing guests over? Is it a legacy table I want to have here for 100 years? Or wouldn't it be more fun just to go to the park? The reason I say this weird example about final cause is because when you begin with the finality of your goal, then it makes all the means to get there insignificant, because there are millions of means that makes a lot of sense.

But here's another perspective, and I guess this is probably a more articulate way of asking essentially the same question or introducing the same topic. If I take anybody who is incredible, Pat, somebody I know, you know quite well. So he's probably a very good example. If you drop me into Pat Flynn's business right now and say, Bob, run this, I would destroy it probably within a week because I'm not Pam Flynn. I haven't become the person that I would need to be. I haven't had the experiences that I would need to have to be able to run that business effectively, not just run that business, but to be the personality that expresses himself out to the world the way Pat does.

And a lot of people, they want to jump to the end, but they don't want to go through this process of becoming. And it's like this whole idea of the quest that at the beginning of the quest, there was an urge. But at the end of the quest, you probably end up somewhere completely different. But the winning was in the questing. So what is this urge? What was Pat Flynn's Genesis? I guess what motivated him. And why doesn't everyone have that?

Well, I would say Pat would probably tell you not to become Pat Flynn. He would say, be yourself. From what I understand, he was an architect, and eventually that job didn't work out. And so he was thrown into entrepreneurship, and he worked his way his way through. But you know what's interesting, though, is whether he had become an entrepreneur or not, whether he became a podcast or not, whether we started creating products or not, one thing built on the other, but the thing that stayed for my outside looking in and also knowing him and talking to him, the thing that stayed the same was his focus on his desire to be there for his family and to have flexibility of time and income.

So that's what I'm saying about final causes. The final cause is flexibility with his time and family and the income from multiple sources passively, possibly. So once you understand that it doesn't matter what you do means don't necessarily create the ends. But the ends do help you dictate what means you're going to use to support it. Let me give you one more example. Like the quest example someone sends you on a quest. And a lot of these quests, you might not even know what you're doing.

You're just kind of there, and hopefully you'll make it back or get this thing or do that. It's real life. It's also fantasy. It's all these things. But if someone says, what's the quickest, fastest way to reach my goal or the goal beyond the goal, someone today might tell you, go take a personality test. They might tell you, go take a strengths test. And unfortunately, you would take that test, and it would tell you who you are, what you should do. And if it said, you're really good at digging ditches and you have a really good personality for that.

And that's your strength. Then you would keep digging ditches and you would wish you weren't digging ditches. But someone told you, you're really good at that. So you do that's the danger. Maybe there are some nice qualities of a personality test or strength test, but what they don't include necessarily is the ability for a human to learn exactly.

And for the comfort zones to change. And yeah, discovery for discovery.

And so I like to say this if you match here's, also the challenge that you find, too, if you tell yourself you're going to go find yourself, you could be wandering forever. And that actually might be the greatest journey of all right. And they always say, hey, I didn't find myself until I came home after all these years. And home was a new place because I saw it differently. There's lots of poems about that kind of stuff. Right at the end of every movie, I'm going to use a Castle example, a lot of castles in Scotland.

I use this example a lot. But I like to say, Build the Castle, then the moat. Not every Castle has a moat. I understand. But if you're going to build a moat, there's usually something that it's protecting. The challenge is most people today in the 21st century, and this is caused by 200 years of the Industrial Revolution, more or less. Well, 200 years ago, right at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution post and how we work today because before it was all just farming and then we moved to the cities.

And now this affected our time, management and created ways that we work. And here we are. Even though we can be living on a farm and doing work, you would have to be normally doing in a city, we still work in a way that looks like we need it in an office. I say that because even with what's happened recently, with the pandemic, things have changed dramatically. So people will start with a moat and the moat is work and they never get out of the moat.

They never built the Castle or maybe it's there and they just look at it and they never walk towards it. They never go across the bridge or whatever. But if you start with the Castle literally start with the dream. This is the example. Start with the final cause, and then you build a strategic moat and an economic moat around it to protect it. Then in that way, you can decide how you get paid and how you work, supports your dream as opposed to leading towards it later.

So now we've actually come to the question that I should have asked you.


Which is how do you pick the dream? That's good, because I think that's for a lot of people that's the thing is if they could just pin on something and say, this is the thing that lights me up. This is the thing I want to spend the next 20 years moving towards that's.

Really good. I'm going to start super practical because most people get really high in the clouds with this. But I'm going to get really practical. If you need money next week, then you're dreaming goal is to figure out a way to make money, to pay your mortgage and feed your family next week period. That's the way it works. And then you go, Well, I have a bigger picture drain that later. I'm going to do all these things. Fair enough. But for now that you can ask a better question.

I'm a fan of the answer to your question. Really is I always tell myself, and I've learned this from a mentor of mine. Ask a better question, get a better answer. And this isn't feedback to you. This is like because you're asking good questions every time you ask a question, not you, just me collective us. You get an answer based upon the question. So if I tell myself, how can I get let's pretend I already have the dream for a second. If I tell myself, how can I get that dream when I retire, then you're going to work 40 years to have that dream when you retire, whether you get it or not is unknown and likely not because things change too much over 40 years.

But if you say, how can I live my dream today and create work in a way that I'm paid that helps me live it now you will think differently. Doesn't mean you have the answer yet, but your brain works like a calculator. If you tell yourself I can do this, you know what? You're probably going to learn and figure out some way to do it somehow. If you tell yourself you can't do it, it's not true that you can't necessarily. But it is true that your brain is going to stop thinking about it.

So by asking a better question, how can I do this thing without that bad thing happening in this amount of time? It could create space for your mind to be able to dwell on that while you're running or getting ready or working out or doing whatever. And then you start coming up with creative solutions.

Yeah. You pay attention to things and they start to resolve.

So the reason I brought the timeliness thing is because if I tell myself I have to manage my time in a certain way, I might be really efficient at it, but it might not be effective in getting me my goal. So if I prioritise getting money for next week, sure, that's good. But if my goal was just to be, I don't know, laying on the beach in the Bahamas, that doesn't really help me get there, necessarily. And those things are totally unrelated. Or maybe they are. Maybe you have to pay off debt first and you start going down this rabbit hole.

But if you were to say, how can I be swimming in the Bahamas with my family right now and create work that helps me get there? Then paying your bills off next week is very essential and important, but it's a bump in the road on your way to getting to that bigger picture dream.


So the idea that would be to take that big picture dream, break it into smaller, more manageable parts and then work on them or rather prioritise your purpose rather than prioritise random priorities.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

But I know I didn't answer your question. I know about how do you choose your purpose and your dream, but keep going, keep going, keep going.

But I think the truth is there isn't an answer to that question, but I think it's a little bit like every time you look at the sun, you have to look slightly to the left or the right, and eventually you look around it long enough you'll find an answer that's close enough to the truth.

That's good. That's beautiful. Yes. In the small you go because, look, we don't live in the future. We live today. We also don't live in the past, like the past may have got us to become who we are and think the way we think. But everything we do moving forward is based on who we think we're going to become or what we're going to do or what we're trying to avoid in the future, because the past is the past. So it's all about future thinking. But acting in the present.

And it sounds like a Riddle. But like, this happens every day without us thinking. So as far as like, well, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? That question is interesting because you could say today I'm going to go for a walk or I'm going to send this email or I'm going to do this thing. There's nothing wrong with that. But if it's aimless, then it's more based on just trying to get through the day.


And if someone really doesn't know, I have no idea what's going to happen in the future. But a big dream doesn't look like details. A big dream looks like an outcome. So I would say this. Let me use it. I'll use an example of Jeff Bezos. He would ask himself when he decided to start Amazon. He asked himself because he had to quit his job on Wall Street to run off and do this thing. And people told me it was a bad idea. They said it was a good idea, but not for someone who already had a good job.

Essentially, I remember thinking.

Who's going to buy books online, right?

It's bizarre, he said, Well, I regret it when I'm 80. So one of the things you can do is ask yourself when I'm sitting in a rocking chair looking over whatever. When I'm 80, what would I regret not doing? This helps you decide in many ways what your dreams are and how you want to live. And essentially it will come down to probably a lot of things about love and family and forgiveness and being nice to people. But when it gets to actual business and getting things done, people will create ideas and dreams.

You know what I found when I wrote The Power throwing something stupid. People came to me with their stupid ideas every day. Still, which is awesome. I love it. That's why I wrote it. But I was surprised when I would talk to so many people with their stupid ideas, because even if the idea was great and they could make money with it, and they did make money with it, it wasn't their real objective. They were starting something to escape one thing and to eventually have this other thing, keep them busy so they could one day eventually get what they really wanted.

So they say, I want to do this thing. Okay, cool. Well, let's do it. Let's go. Let's go make a million dollars. Yeah, why not? But then what? Oh, it's so I can have more time with my family and we can travel the world together. Okay, hold up. How long is this going to take? I had a guy told me he had a 15 year old and no 15 year old and a 13 year old, and he had this dream, and he says it's going to take him five years to do it.

And I go way. So you're an executive making $250,000 a year. You're going to leave your job to do this thing. It's going to take you five years of grinding when your kids out of the house and the other one's, 18, leaving the house, he's like, oh, I'm like, yeah, people don't think through it. So if you just say our dream is to travel the world, travel the world. I know I'm oversimplifying travel the world and build a business around it. And I oversimplify the beginning on purpose to break the mould of but what?

But I have to. But my parents will say, but what about my kids school. But what about this at the end? It's like, yeah, that will always be there, my friend. You think that grinding for five years that's going to disappear? No same problem.

So what was the answer in that situation?

Well, it was easy. He wanted to start a gym, and he was going to need two gyms, and he was going to need to be there every day. And I said, Who's going to unlock it in the morning and lock it up at night? And he said he was a micromanager, and he would. And I go, look, man, you can do a gym. This is prepondermic, too. Who cares? It's going to make tonnes of money. It's going to do whatever you want to do. But if your real goal is to have freedom of time, you need a manager doing that for you, don't you?

Or let's get really creative. Here one of those gyms where it unlocks and locks itself with a key card by the members that are using it 24/7. There's so many different ways of thinking it. That's why Final Cause is so important. If he says, my goal is to have time with my family. Therefore, I'm going to start a gym that will not give me time with my family. He already failed before he started, even if it makes millions of dollars, because that wasn't the real goal.

But he can still have the same thing. Steven Covey would say, begin with the end in mind. He did not say begin with means in mind.

Yeah. So what's interesting there is, actually, it's just some mechanical adjustment.

There you go.

That makes perfect sense.

It's a series of questions. What do you want to do? I don't know, but I know that once you know who you want to become, you'll know what to do.

I think what's really useful in this conversation is lots of people just know they want more. They want different. And they may have a clear idea of how they could get there, but they're going to have to do some hard things on the way. And unless they have confidence that they can reach that end goal, it's often very unlikely that they'll do those hard things.

That's true.

And that's why I think that working through it like this is really useful. Breaking it down. Actually, this is a dream, but this dream is achievable, but it means you're going to have to do this. You're going to have to do this. All these different steps. The business owners and entrepreneurs are used to backtracking or reverse engineering.

The hard thing with smart people is that smart people instantly ask themselves how that stops the gears completely.

I put my hand up. This probably helped me for the best part of a decade because I'm somebody that needs to have a master plan before you'll take action.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with the master plan. There's nothing wrong with asking how. But when you ask how makes a big difference. How can I dream? If every time I dream, I ask how it is impossible to dream. Asking how it is impossible to dream. Asking how? Because you are thinking how from your current state of mind and your dream lives outside of your state of mind. You don't know how my client longtime client, Ben Hardy, wrote a book with Dan Sullivan called Who Not How? And his answer to that is simply don't ask how.

Find a who. That's how businesses work. How do you send a rocket to the moon, hire engineers?

I asked Daniel Priestley how do you manage to launch all these different businesses? How do you manage to maintain attention across them all? And he said that I launched new businesses like criminals, Rob banks. I get okay, what am I going to need? I'm going to need a driver. I just puts the team together. And then he just stands back and lets them run.

Yes. What I want to do in the future, it's a hard question, but you can get within usually ten years is too far. Usually 40 years is too far to think usually you can do it. But I found that two, maybe three. But I, like, two years is a good timeline. What would have to happen in the next two years for me to feel like I'm progressing, and then you go after that. Architects don't build buildings, they draw them. General contractors do not pick up Hammers. If they don't want to, they sub everything out.

This is how entrepreneurs work. Okay, if you think, like an owner operator, you're instantly going to think how because you're going to think I have to do it. But if you think, like an owner, that never crosses your mind because you're going to have who's to do it. And then, of course, a smart person is going to say who's, my who and How's my how and we go along in circles. But none of that actually matters. Let's go all the way back to the beginning conversation when you think about final cause, why are you doing this project in the first place?

Oh, I'm doing it so I can have freedom of time. Well, then you better not put yourself in the middle of that because you will have less time. Most people start businesses, entrepreneurs, lifestyle, entrepreneurs to get their time back and they lose their freedom of time in their business. And they go, yeah, but I have to be here and you go, really? Because the most scalable business is when someone comes to buy it. If you're still there, they might pay you. But they're going to make you become their employee for a year or two.

It's actually better if you're not personally involved every day. It can actually be more scalable, more profitable and more business savvy. And you have more freedom of time if you build from your actual goal and not from your sub goals. The sub goals are means to creating the ends, build from the ends, not the means.

Honestly, I think that's probably a lovely place to end it. I think this has been really an unusual conversation for the podcast, but that was quite intentional.

I love you, man. You're so good to me. You're so fun to talk to. Oh, my gosh.

I think the one thing I would maybe like to ask is what's the question that I should have asked? Because I sense you know where I'm going with this, but you can only ask the questions that I ask you. No question.

I don't know. But you could have gotten super personal and asked about a project you're working on, and we could have worked through it. But we can do that offline.

The thing is, if we spoke on a year ago, that would have been super pertinent. Actually, I have very clear vision. Now I know where I'm going. I'm very motivated to do it, but I feel so lucky in that.

What got you there. What got you there asking the questions? Yeah, that's it. I think that's it.

And more importantly. And this for me, was the game changer that you can't have all the answers. You can't know the meaning of life. You just can't. It's just impossible. We're here on this planet in order to be ignorant to the purpose of life. It's not our job. Our job is to take action and our job is to be there for the people around us and just grow as much as we possibly can. I love that purpose and mission resolves over time. The more action you take, the more purpose and mission resolves into clarity.

But the action is the price.

Yeah, that's good. I agree. I think a couple of things people need to remember money and meaning can go together. Too many people think they have to waste their time making money so they can eventually have meaning or that they have to use all their time making meaning and not have money and rely on other people. That is lack of asking a better question. How can my meaning and money go together? And then once you have a purpose, like what I do, what do I want to be in the next couple of years?

What are some big projects I want to do? You come up with them and then I try to prioritise my personal stuff by my people. You know, things I want to do to play my profession. And then these priorities are around my ultimate purpose. They're not priorities toward a purpose, a picture, a timeline and your goals at the end. So you're going to work or work to get there. What if you just took that goal and move it to the front of the timeline? Because the effect, the essence, the sake of what you're doing that actually can happen regardless of money.

So you build around that you're more likely and faster to get that goal by working that way than pretending you're going to get there someday.

Yeah. And I guess the final thought I have on purpose is that every time you get close to it, it just moves away again.

Yeah. You want something else? Things change.

Yeah. It's like a will of the Wisp. It's always on the horizon.

I love you said the night the coolest thing.

You just have to keep moving towards it and trust.

Yeah, we're dynamic people. You can have many purposes at the same time. Yeah, that's okay. I like it.

Richie Norton, you have been an awesome guest. I am so grateful for your time. If you are over in Scotland soon, it would be great to catch up. I know you're coming next week.

Yeah. So excited. I hope to see it would be amazing.

Yeah, but for now, have a great day. Thank you so much for your time.

I know it's been a huge honour. Thanks so much, Bob. Really appreciate it. You're a great interviewer. That was really fun. Thank you.

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See you next week. Bye.

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