Overview

What is the right thing for you to be spending your time on? This is a big question for a lot of people and it's hard to get advice on this because where you can both give and receive value changes over time. It changes with experience and changes as your business grows.

This week my guest is Matt Paulson. Mat is the author of five books on digital marketing and online business. He now runs a business offering financial market intelligence turning over 10 million dollars a year. Where others might build a coaching business around there books and online success, Matt had to make other decisions.

About Matt Paulson

Matt Paulson is the founder and CEO of MarketBeat, an Inc. 5000 financial media company that publishes stock market news, data, and research tools. MarketBeat was recognized as the fastest-growing privately held company in South Dakota by Inc. Magazine in 2016 and has since been recognized by Barron's, Entrepreneur Magazine and several other publications for its continued growth and success. Receiving more than 15 million monthly page views, MarketBeat is arguably South Dakota's widest-reaching vertical media company.

As an active private equity investor, Matt has invested in more than 60 small businesses and high-growth startups, including Buffer, Dollar Shave Club, Lime, Lyft, Ripple, and Wikia. He has significant real estate holdings that includes interests in more than a dozen hotels and apartment complexes. He also serves as the chairman of Falls Angel Fund, which makes early-stage capital investments in high-growth companies in South Dakota and surrounding states.

In 2019, Matt founded Startup Sioux Falls, a community organization that aims to connect founders with each other and with the startup ecosystem. He provides leadership to several other startup organizations and events, including 1 Million Cups, Hey Sioux Falls, Innovation Expo, and the Zeal Center for Entrepreneurship. He has also published eight business and personal finance books, including 40 Rules for Internet Business Success, Email Marketing Demystified, The Ten Year Turnaround, Automatic Income and Online Business from Scratch.

Links and mentions

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Automatic Audio Transcription

What's the right thing for you to be spending your time on right now? This is the big question for a lot of people, and it's hard to get advice because where you can both give and receive value changes over time, it changes with experience and it changes as your business grows this week. My guest is Matt Paulson. Matt, the author of five books on digital marketing and online business. He now runs a business offering financial market intelligence, turning over a 10 million dollars a year where others might build a coaching business around their books and their online success.

Matt had to make other decisions. Hi there. And welcome back to Amplify the Digital Marketing Entrepreneur podcast. I'm Bob Gentle, and every Monday I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. If you knew, then take a second right now to subscribe so you don't miss new episodes and you can grab some older ones when you're done with this one. Don't forget as well, you can join my Facebook community. Just visit, amplify me to forward slash insiders and you'll be taken right there.

So welcome home and let's meet Matt. So this week, I am thrilled, more thrilled, and I'm always thrilled to say that even more thrilled than normal to welcome to the show, but why don't you start by telling the listener a little bit about who you are, where you are and the kind of work you do.

Yeah, so I am a business owner in Bayside Sioux Falls, South Dakota. I run a company called Market Beat. It's a financial media business. So we published news and information about the stock market. And it's a business that has scaled really well. I started it about 10 years ago when I kind of had the idea to do an investing website. And we've grown it to the point where we have about one point seven million people that get our investment newsletter every morning over email you.

We send over one hundred millions of dollars a month. We get about 15 million pages a month on our website has become a really nice business. Obviously, it's taken many years to get here. But it's I'm very happy with where we are today. Also have some other projects that I'm working on. I'm doing a lot of real estate investing right now. I claim to fame is I've been an expert on email marketing. I've got another business called Gogo Photo Contest that helps animal shelters raise money.

I've written some books, so just a lot of different stuff going on.

So most people listening will be thinking, I didn't know Bob was interested in investing. And obviously I'm mildly interested in investing, but not to the degree where I am. One of your 15 million page views a month. I'm really not.

But I heard you on a podcast five years ago, Jamie Masters Eventual Millionaire podcast, and it was one of very few interviews that's really stuck in my head. And I've been on your mailing list since 2015, and I counted the number of emails I've had from you. It's one hundred and fifteen. And like you said, you're known as the email marketing guy. And this is really what fascinated me about your business, is the consistency with which you send emails and that the diversity of topics led to when an email came in the other day, I thought, I want to speak to my share.

And that's how email marketing works. And lots of people tell me email marketing doesn't work. And when I speak to clients and prospects and I talk about email marketing, there's always this instinctive resistance because it feels spammy, feels scummy, it feels sleazy, and you're in a very traditional business space.

And a lot of people wouldn't think about modern, but obviously it has to be a modern setup. But they wouldn't think about something like email marketing as being the engine that sits under a business like that. Yeah, you said you started this business. You had the idea to start the business ten years ago. And I guess that's where I would like to start because saying I had an idea to start a business. It's a very simple thing to say.

But yeah. What did that look like and what was the journey? Yeah.

So I mean, did the journey really started in two thousand six and at the time I was a college student, I was really into personal finance. So I started a personal finance blog. It was called Getting Green was the original name. It was on blog or dotcom. And you know, a lot of people are very personal finance blogs back then. And it was kind of the cool thing to do. So that's kind of how I got started in the Internet business game.

But I wrote probably three or four stories a day and I did that for three or four years and that was able to make a healthy mid five figure income. I was looking for ways to diversify that because, you know, it's kind of dangerous to have all your eggs in one basket when you're doing Internet business so that the tangential thing to that was doing a website about investing. And that led to the launch of a website called American Banking and Market News.

It's still up today at American Banking News.com. If anybody wants to see it, it hasn't changed much, but it's still there.

And they're kind of brilliant idea that I kind of came, that it was really a combination of two things that turned this in, I guess transformed me from being a personal finance blogger, one of one hundred people doing it. I not doing it very well compared to some other people to really a successful Internet business owner in one was I figured out how to get my news stories inside Google News and big news and Yahoo! News. And then, too, I figured out how to create software that would make financial news articles based on data so we could take like a company's quarterly earnings announcement and use software to extract the important data out of that and turn it into an article that somebody could read.

So my my writing cost for somebody to produce an article. Really went down to zero, and that allowed us to produce one hundred articles a day if we wanted to, because whenever, like the CEO of any company sells their stock, we could take that data and turn it into an article saying, Tim Cook at Apple Store. One hundred thousand shares of Apple stock today. And here's why that's important. And here's how the other times he's bought and sold stock.

Here's what else is happening with Apple. And if you go to American bank and use that, you can see those types of articles are still there.

But being able to produce content at scale is in our automated software really allowed us to get a big foothold into those the new search engines. So Google News, big news, Yahoo! News and the finance sections of Google and Yahoo! And being as well, because not many other people are producing one hundred articles a day. So we would show up on a lot of what they call ticker pages. So you would search for like Microsoft. And then our news story about Microsoft would be there would get people back to American banking, to market news.

Hopefully they would sign up for our email list and we're really off to the races. So that's kind of how that business got started. It evolved over time, certainly like any business would.

But, you know, initially the play was just to get people on a website and then to get them to click on ads.

But I knew that wasn't sustainable because I really felt like a traffic hack and hack that work today, my network tomorrow. It turns out that traffic back ended up working for about 10 years before it really stopped, thankfully. So I got really lucky there.

But I thought, you know, there is an audience of people that are interested in investing in stocks, individual companies, researching them, learning about them.

And if I had them on an email list, you know, I really wouldn't need Google as much anymore because when I have something new to share, I can just email them the link versus hoping to come back to Google typing in the same stock ticker again, hoping my article gets gets the ranking for it and hoping to click on the link.

So it's just much more of a sure thing. One of the early focuses can email sign up on a newsletter. I later figured out we could put ads for financial products in that newsletter. So now advertising newsletters and just sending out emails for advertisers is a big source of revenue for our business. We also kind of figure out the premium subscription component. So we have about ten thousand three hundred people that are on premium subscriptions right now for our premium newsletter and then our investment research software.

So people will pay either twenty dollars a month or forty dollars a month to access some additional features on our website. So that's very reasonably priced.

I would have expected it to be higher. So as your sort of customer base within market beats, it tends to be small investors, domestic investors, if you like.

Yeah, it tends to be people that are later career and recently retired and they are interested in the stock market in the same way that somebody might be interested in a sports team.

So they've got their companies. They know they like to follow the news. What's going on? Every little bit of every little news bit they want want to read about it because, you know, they think, you know, if I know anything more about the stock, I'll be I'll be more quick to trade it. And for better or for worse, some people do well, some people don't.

And but there are people that the stock market is their hobby and they like to brag to their buddies on a golf course about what stocks they bought that did well. And, you know, maybe the ones that didn't do so well, these kind of sweep under the rug.

But that's kind of the audience as it tends to be, 80, 90 percent men there all tend to be older, like career people. And, you know, we've really found a niche with those people. So they're not on Facebook. So we can't do Facebook ads.

They're not on Instagram so much. I like to reach our audience. We really have to do marketing in a very different way than if you listen to any of the the standard marketing or business growth podcast. And we can't do a lot of the things that are hot right now because they don't work for our audience.

So I kind of threw you off your stride a little bit with a question there. But this is sort of two thousand six. This began. And I think people have to customize back to 2006 and think what the Internet was back then. There wasn't actually that much in terms of social media and there weren't. That many. I mean, we're talking the time when everybody was still talking about Web 2.0, even thinking about it, actually never mind doing it, the ad is the standard way to, like, promote content and ways to share it.

I'm Dick Dotcom and Reddit. Dotcom had just launched at that point.

And there are all these different social bookmarking sites like Delicious and Stumble Upon that. People would share their articles too, and hopefully those sites would promote your stuff. And that was really kind of the name of the game at the time. People were doing a lot of guest blog posts. That was that was a thing early on that people did.

And, you know, there was no sharing articles to Facebook or Twitter.

That was very much a new thing back then. I mean, Twitter launched in 2006.

But this is why this is why I think you're a really, really useful case study, is because a lot of a lot of people complain, though. You have to pay to play. You have to you have to do the social media. You have to do all kinds of complicated things in order to be successful online. But email still there and.

It's still working for you a lot along the way, you've written more books than most.

I haven't counted them, but I've counted one, two, three, four, five, five books.

I think there are more. Yeah, there's eight. So. At what point and what's also interesting in the way you wrote your books is you started with personal finance and anyone who knows anything about business knows that. Businesses tend to lose money, and it's not because they're about making money, is because they're bad at looking after it. And that was why I thought it was quite interesting that you started with personal finance and how to save money rather than how to spend money or how to make it.

How important is that aspect in your own business philosophy?

Yeah, you know, one of our core values is to protect our profit margin. So historically, market operated at a 70 percent profit margin, which is very, very unusual for businesses.

We sell digital products and services and advertising. So our expenses, you know, their web hosting their people and they're buying advertising. So, you know, my thought is, you know, if I can, you know, a 10 million dollar business a year that makes seven million dollars in profit is just as valuable as a 30 million dollar business that makes seven million dollars in profit. So there's a lot of things that we don't spend money on that a lot of people would spend money on, like historic.

Like we didn't have an office until five months ago. And this is a company that's been incorporated for 12 years.

We finally decided, you know, maybe it's time to get an office 12 years in that business.

We just ironically, you get an office when everybody else is giving theirs up at. Oh, yeah.

Now, there's something you could argue that there's a master stroke of genius there somewhere. Yeah, there's there's something to be said about being a contrarian. You know, the other operating with covid.

You know, there was a lot of fear in commercial real estate this year, myself and a business partner, a guy named Kevin Tupi, we use that opportunity to to buy up apartment complexes when everybody else was scared people weren't going to pay their rent.

And now that people are less scared of code than they were five months ago, like there are some new transactions that have happened in our market where we bought stuff at maybe a six and a half cap and now there are transactions at a five and a half cap again.

So it's really what opportunities get created when other people are scared.

So there's so many places I want to go with you. I think I'm going to stick with VentureBeat for a little bit market be rid of VentureBeat market, but it's much better.

Better. But I know you do lots of other things. How and in terms of percentage, how much of your revenue, I guess, is VentureBeat? Is that still the main thing you spend all your time on? Are you sort of distributed across other things?

You know, Market B is kind of that the horse that pulls and everything else, you know, it's it's 90 percent of my income probably. So I mean, that's the main job. That's the office I'm at every day. But it does get intertwined with a lot of other things.

I have some nonprofit projects that I do. And, you know, I tend to work on everything all at once or on a given day. I might have ten things to do and six of them are Market B and two of them are nonprofit things. One might be a real estate thing and just kind of all blends together. And I can learn to be OK with that over the years.

There's one of your books I would like to talk about and I haven't read it, I'll be quite honest with. I've read email marketing Demystified in the Forty Rules, but the online business from scratch. I have not read. And I'm really curious to ask you about that, because right now is a great time for a lot of people to be thinking, you know what? I was never really happy with what I was doing and the whole world in crisis right now.

So people are making changes and you've seen so many trends come and go. You've been in and out of so many recessions. If you were parachuted into a city and you were told, OK, market is not yours anymore, it's not running, all your money is gone, what would you do? Well, you know, I kind of recognize that, you know, it takes time to build something that's worth keeping. I would do two two things.

I would go get a job as fast as I can, pretty much anywhere to create kind of a sustainability in my life where I could work, you know, work a job and then think about what kind of business I want to build on the side. You know, as time goes on, I feel like it takes probably two to three years to build a real good online business.

And you obviously need to eat during that time. So I get a job to give myself some space just to think about what kind of business I want to build. And the other thing I would do is set up as many coffee and lunch meetings as I possibly could with business leaders in that community. I would try. To get to know the players, I would try to learn what opportunities there are to build a business in that community, and I would try to become kind of a critical asset to that community and be a key player in anything I can be.

I feel like that's where opportunities tend to come up.

If everybody knows who you are, if you are known to be a person that does things and makes things happen, you know, you tend to find yourself being a lot more lucky and more opportunity to show up on your lap. I've met my real estate partner because of who I am in the community, not because of anything else.

So, yeah, employees the same way, just investment opportunities have come up. So I think there's real value in having a personal brand, especially a personal brand, where you where you live like anybody can be.

Not anybody can. But like there are a lot of people that have a podcast or YouTube channel and are you have an audience. Right.

And those are good things.

You know, they can become great businesses, but the people that tend to reach out to you because they listen to your podcast, it's very rare that you're going to start a business with one of them more often.

What I found when I was trying to do the expert guru, online business owner kind of thing was it just created more more people that were looking for help and it didn't create a lot of business opportunities for me. So if we can kind of dial that back over the last couple of years and say, OK, maybe I don't need to be a Pat Flynn or a Jamie Masters or anybody like that, maybe I can just be that person in Sioux Falls and maybe that that means maybe that's a better thing to do.

I think there is a danger, I guess. And I think what's different from you, with you, I guess, is a lot of people that move into the online expert space, that's what they're monetizing, whereas you have a very successful business, but you also have a wealth of knowledge that other people can benefit from. But it doesn't really make a commercial sense for you to do that because your other thing is doing ridiculously well. So what other ways can people learn from you that allows you to leverage your time?

I think I totally yeah.

What I kind of figured out is where that where the money tends to be made for this online guru space is to do with the online courses and mastermind and coaching and all those things take a lot of time that I don't have that kind of decided not to do them intentionally because, you know, one, I don't want people to think. I don't want people to think I'm in it because I want to make money off them.

That's really not the case.

And two, I like to do things so I can share information, know maybe for an hour or two of time into it, like a podcast or a blog post or video, and then share it on my website and just put it out into the world for anyone to see. And I think that's been a good balance for me market. I think we're going to do north of 10 million this year. Next year could be 20 or things. OK, so like, I just don't need that hundred dollars.

I like I'm not I don't care. I don't need that money now. I'm not worried about it. There's plenty of other good online courses out there. But you know, once, once a week, once every other week, maybe I've got something to say, maybe I had a conversation that triggered some thoughts and like I wanted to put those in writing or on a video where I could share them out for people. And that's kind of what I've been doing lately, is, you know, one of my goals here was to put out 50 blog posts into the world or videos in 50 pieces of content.

And this is one of them, I guess, and really share information way.

I really like that because I think it's important to play to your strengths, and that sounds quite a simple cliche thing to say, but you have a very successful business. You're not going to be any more successful by giving up more of your time for less productive and profitable things. It makes no sense. That's that's something I don't think people understand.

Always is that, you know, I get a lot of business opportunities presented to me or opportunities to invest or partner into somebody's business.

And they always start with think about, you know, how much money you can make from this.

And it's like, well, you know, if there's no shortage of money right now and I put a whole bunch of time into something else that takes time away from this awesome financial media business, I bet. So, you know, there's a possibility that me doing something new would end up costing me a lot of money. So I've really got to consider, like, if I'm going to do a new project like I we have with real estate and the last four months, like, I have to really understand what the cost benefit analysis of that is and make sure it is a good use of my time, because most of the time that's not the case.

So over the years, you have put a lot of time and effort into building this personal brand.

And I'm curious to know, because you strike me as a moderately introverted person, would that be fair to say?

I'd say that's the case. OK, you know, I can give you a couple minutes a day. And after that, I tend to be you know, if I'm in meetings out, I'm just dead by the end of the day.

And the reason I ask is the personal branding side of things is it's quite challenging and it's difficult to do. And a lot of people resist it, particularly introverts, because there are lots of things you can do in business that are easy, but that don't require you to push yourself out of your comfort zone. There are lots of business owners who, when I meet them, they they really resist showing up in their own content. They resist being known as the business owner in a particular business.

I find this particularly the case in traditional brick and mortar businesses that they don't mind going to networking events or sort of joining the local chamber. But when it comes to actually showing up online and being visible where you can actually build relationships of scale, they really resist. So I'm curious to know what your perspective on that would be as somebody who is in not a traditional business, but a business that's effectively been around for hundreds of years, the sort of financial industry.

Yeah. What does doing that led to in terms of opportunities or what would you say to anybody that was thinking that I just can't bring myself to do that.

You know, it's just created a lot of different opportunities for me that, you know, didn't exist 10 years ago when I was working at my home office in my basement and never really leaving much during the day. You know, building a personal brand both in my community and online is it's just helped in terms of relationships. You know, every employee that I have is somebody that I've met either at a conference or at a at a local event in Sioux Falls or at a coworking space.

I built my team just through personal networking like we don't do job postings at Market B, we have nine people and they've all just kind of been handpicked. And we go out and find people that we like or we know and we hire them.

So that's been a big benefit. It just created a lot of opportunities in terms of business partnerships. Like most of our ad sales go through go through an agency out of Chicago called Investing Media Solutions.

I met their team at a conference and they you know, that relationship has turned into a multimillion dollar a year deal because they showed up at a conference, had some conversations and found a business relationship that that's worked. You know, my real estate partner, Kevin, to be you know, I met him because, you know, I was somebody in the community and, you know, there was another person that thought he and I should meet and have a conversation.

So you don't really know where life's going to take you. You don't know whether you know what opportunities are going to show up. You don't know how lucky you are going to be.

But I just feel like if everybody everybody that should know your name, knows your name, just got more opportunities tend to show up, whether it's locally in person or online or in any capacity.

Now, that's a really good answer.

I guess I'd like it to come back to the books because they, I guess, are a big part of your personal brand, or at least were, I think when I asked you earlier said that the books aren't really a central feature of.

And what you're up to right now. Yeah, but anybody who has written books, I like to understand how they came to write them and what that process was actually like and what they what they led to in terms of opportunity. Because, I mean, obviously, this is a digital marketing podcast. Yeah. But we're talking email marketing. And I'm curious to know if the books had an impact on things like list building and things like that.

Yeah, and it's probably, you know, not many people write eight books in like three years. So I think telling that story briefly might be might be useful.

But I anybody who had built a business on building Amazon books sorry, there's a train in the background, but I know it sounds fantastic.

Yeah, I know about a block away from the train that comes through downtown there. I mean, yeah, we just let that go by, OK?

I think it's gone by. But but he was used to it about 30 grand a month selling Kindle books. He goes by Steve Scott on Amazon.

It's not his real name, but that's kind of his stage name or pen name. So he had maybe 30, 40 books on Amazon. His was thirty, 30 grand a month and passive income on his books.

They always and I thought, well, you know, if Steve can do this, I feel like I could do that, too. And I got to about I got to eight. And then I was like, OK, this is not a good use of my time. Well, relative to Market B, I kind of said everything I want to say at this point. Maybe I'll write more books later. But for now I think we're. You know, I kind of said what I wanted to say in books am I do have some other ideas for books that I might want to publish in the next couple of years, but it's hard to justify writing a book that might make you best case scenario.

Fifty thousand dollars. When you have a business that is making over a million dollars a month is it's just you can't justify the time.

No, I really understand that. And I think a book you're either doing it for business in order to support a business or you're doing it as part of a personal mission. Yeah, and if email marketing, digital marketing, it's not really aligned with your personal mission right now, then it doesn't make sense. So I totally get that.

What I do want to do in the future is, is maybe write a book about like investing mistakes that people make or common traps that investors fall into and maybe publish that on Kindle or as a book, because I feel like that could be a good kind of lead generation magnet as maybe a bonus to give out to people that sign up for a premium subscription, or maybe they just buy the book on Amazon and hear about market be that way.

That could be something that we do that that would make sense in terms of the business.

And that's kind of how I think about it, is you publish a book, try to get it well, read on Amazon, get lots of reviews.

And inside the book you have a prominent promotion of your email list and maybe have like a bonus chapter or bonus auto audio recording that's available. But then you have to go to the website and type in your email address to get access to that.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So we've spoken a little bit about distraction and getting sort of deviated from your core business. And what I really like is that you have always snapped back to market beat and anybody that has a successful business, that doesn't happen by accident. It happens because you're disciplined and you're diligent. And I'm curious to understand how you manage your time, because if anybody's doing well, it's because they're managing time well. So I'm curious to know what your processes, practices and so forth are around.

How do you manage your time?

Well, I mean, there are some special limitations I've kind of placed in my life that have really helped with this.

I do no more than 10 meetings a week, you know, and if there's a meeting that wants to show up after that, I say, OK, that's either next week or it's just not happening. And that really takes time for one my family and then to freemarket BS because, I mean, if I wanted to, I could get into twenty five meetings a week with different people that, you know, want business advice, non-profits that want help or just any number of things that come up.

So I really tried to to keep a lid on that a little bit. The other thing that I've done that's, that's really helped in the last year and a half is I've hired an executive assistant.

Her name is Maureen and she's fantastic. But I put her in charge of scheduling my meetings. And then that way she sticks to the rules better than I would. Yeah. That I can't get myself in trouble.

So she is kind of a good, good barrier to prevent my prevent me from overstretching myself. And, you know, I've got some other boundary safe place in my life. I get home from work at three thirty pm every day because I pick up my kid from school at two forty five pm every day. And you know, I tend not to do a lot of work after that. So I, I try to squeeze most of my work in between about 18 to 30 and then maybe sometimes I work on a Saturday morning or Sunday afternoon when the kids are asleep or plain.

But you know, I, I try not to work that 60, 70, 80 hour weeks that I maybe I did when I was single, because just the life phase I'm at right now, I've got an eight year old and then a four year old at home and our four year old has some special needs. And, you know, just our kids are pretty demanding timelines right now. And I want to be available to them. I don't want to be the absent business owner father.

I want to be around for them. So I've had to be very careful about what I say yes to. There are some people in my community that serve on six or seven different nonprofit boards. I've kind of limited myself to three of them. And as new opportunities show up to do that kind of stuff and just say, sorry, I'm at my limit right now, feel free to ask me next year and maybe something will free up. So I've just had to become really careful about what I say yes to in NYC, no to.

And again, something I always like to understand with people who are being successful is what do you actually struggle with? Which areas of the business or with life to do less?

Well, yeah, honestly, like overextending myself has been the biggest challenge I've had in the last ten years. I like to say, yes, I'm kind of a people pleaser. I've really had to fight back against that. Just. Putting some of those systems and processes in place to prevent myself from doing that, because, I mean, if I was unchecked, I would schedule like six meetings for myself every day and it would just get out of hand.

Well, Matthew, you have been an awesome guest. Anybody listening who thinks that this hasn't been a very digital marketing podcast? I would urge you to go and read Matt's books. They're not a big part of your life right now, but they are a very valuable resource for anybody that wants to get really straightforward, logical, simple advice for digital marketing. They're sort of unusually clear. Lots of people get sort of very woolly and vague and there's no padding in your books.

It's all good stuff. So I want to use this opportunity to say thanks for that.

Yeah. Now, if anyone's interested in my books, you just go in and type in Matt Palsson passing Espejo. I saw it on Amazon and they're right there.

You know, email marketing Demystified is really the best selling book I'm about in a marketing. But then Online Business from Scratch is really a good book for anyone that's thinking about starting an online business, but maybe has it hasn't started yet or don't really doesn't really have a process to follow.

To start that business, so I encourage your listeners to maybe check out both of those three dollars on Kindle. So hopefully that's not a barrier to anybody.

But if people want to connect with you, how would you like them to do that? Yeah, the best way to get a hold of me is to email me. My email address is Matt Matt Post.com. You can Google my name.

I'm not hard to find them on all the social networks. You type my name into Google, and I'm pretty easy to find and contact, so I try not to heighten. There's a contact form on the website, there's an email address. Any of those or send me a message on LinkedIn, anything like that.

I'm happy, happy to chat with people, but just don't ask him to join the nonprofit board.

Are you. Can you is not. I am only kidding. And Matthew or rather I always try and end with one question and that's what's one thing you do now that you wish you'd started five years ago.

Oh I wish I, I wish I had focused on taking the money that market bit was making and investing it into new investments that make income. Five years ago I started doing real estate investing seriously about a year ago and I honestly wish I had started that a little bit sooner in terms of buying, you know, investing in apartments in commercial real estate. And I had a rental house. But that that wasn't a great success because of there are like seven other guys that also owned it.

And it just kind of turned me off to it.

And what I've learned is like it is so much easier to buy bigger assets that are managed professionally.

And, you know, it takes less money than you think to do some of this stuff because you can get bank loans like, you know, I've got like a 10000 square foot commercial real estate building or a building in Sioux Falls here.

And I own half of it in my cash outlay. And that was three hundred thousand dollars. And, you know, that is a lot of money to a lot of people. But in terms of like owning a building where you have Starbucks as a tenant and as a captive audience, which is a sandwich shop as a tenant and a couple of other tenants in that space, that's not a lot of, you know, relative to what it is.

It's not a lot of money.

I just wish I had had started doing some of that sooner.

Yeah, I would love to talk about that some more, but we're out of time and I don't want to take too much of yours because I know it's very, very precious. So my person, thank you so much for your time. You've been a fantastic guest. Thanks for being so open in this conversation. I'd love to meet you sometime, but you are very far away from me, so. Yes. Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you, Bob. Being open to change and adapting as your situation changes is an important mindset when things are going well. It's important not to settle and when things are going badly, it's equally important not to be too proud to look inside for the reasons why. Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe. And if you haven't, then join our Facebook group. You'll find a link in the show, notes or visit up, if I may form forward slash insiders.

I would love for you to connect with me on social media. You'll find me on all the socials at POB gentle. And if you do, let me know. Message me that way I can follow you back. If you enjoyed the show, then as always, I would love for you to be on iTunes, iTunes in particular, because they drive me the most traffic and it's the easiest to subscribe to. It's also the very best way to help me reach more subscribers.

My name is Bob Gentil. Thanks again to Matt for giving us his time this week and to you for listening. And I'll see you next week.

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