Episode Overview

Today we’re exploring how nearly everybody can add a mastermind to their range of offerings to really boost both your impact and your revenue streams. No matter what business you’re in, you’re in the transformation business and masterminds are where people can learn and grow like nowhere else.

If you’ve heard of masterminds but never really got it, or if you’ve been thinking about joining one but don’t know what to do next then jump in and get ready to meet Mastermind expert Liz Scully as she walks you and me through everything you need to know.



About Liz Scully

Emmy award winning Liz Scully is a strategist that believes business should be ridiculously fun as well as highly effective. 

She runs Mastermind groups for herself and other well known coaches. She trains coaches to run effective Masterminds. Bringing skills from over 20 years working on big Hollywood films, she helps brilliant minds achieve more together than alone.

She's Irish, nomadic and as confused as everyone else why she has an English accent.

Liz's website: www.rethinkcentral.com 

Automatic Audio Transcription

Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription.  There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.  

Hi there and welcome back to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur podcast. I'm Bob Gentle, and every Monday I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. If you knew, they'd take a second to subscribe through your player app. And while you're listening, join our Facebook community, just visit, amplify me, dot form forward slash insiders and you'll be taken right there. Hi there and welcome to Amplify the personal brand entrepreneur show. Every week I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work.

And this week I'm really excited to be joined by Liz Skully from Everything Central. And Liz, for those people who don't know you, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about who you are, where you are and the kind of work you do?

Well, it's lovely to be here. Thank you for having me. I am a business strategist and a mastermind coach. I only really work with clients myself in Mastermind's because they are so effective and my clients have been so happy and stayed with me such a long time that a while ago I started teaching people how to run a mastermind group.

And you were one of a very, very select group of people. That select group is people who have been referred to me by actual clients. I have a client that I think we have in common, and he told me you have to have Liz on your podcast. And when your customer tells you you have to have somebody on a podcast, there's no choice. So I'm really looking forward to speaking to mastermind's masterminding. For me, it has been a game changer in my business, in my life.

I think if it hadn't been for mastermind's, I'd know for a fact I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. We wouldn't be talking and I'd still be probably very unhappy in my business. So for those people who don't know what a mastermind is and they're thinking, what is he talking about? What's your definition of a mastermind? Who are they for? Who should be in a mastermind? Who should be hosting masterminds? Tell me about mastermind's list.

So that part of the problem I have with mastermind's is there is many definitions. So I'm glad you asked me what mine is, which is a mastermind in itself, in essence, is a group that meets regularly, shares information and sets a goal that you will have done by the next time you meet. It's super simple. And because it's so simple, it can be incredibly effective, like a coaching conversation. You're just talking to someone. But the results could be amazing with a mastermind group because it has longevity, because those people are with you for a long time.

They see the evolution of your business. They see where you perhaps have blind spots in a way that one to one coaching sometimes doesn't because you're not with that person for a long time. Many people are in my master mind groups for three years, for five years. And that's because it works. And as to who should run them, everybody who should be in them, everybody is quite evangelical, as you can tell.

So for those people who haven't experienced a mastermind group, there might be some misconceptions or misinterpretations. So one for me is what would be very different from a mastermind group to something like a networking group. And I'm thinking, for example, I dunno if you've ever experienced BNA groups, sort of local networking groups, where, again, people are together for a long period of time. How would you characterise a mastermind as being different from a networking group like that?

Well, being is, of course, fabulous. But as you say, it is a networking group, a mastermind group, particularly the So Irun is a small, intimate group. It's four to six people who were there for you through thick and thin. And the big difference between and I and similar groups is that you set goals at the beginning of the mastermind. So you're going to be together for six months or for a year. When I work with my clients, we set a big plan.

This is what you you know, if you want to be earning an extra hundred thousand three years from now, what do you have to do the year after and next year and this year? And what do you need to do in this six months to get that done? And that clear plan that that framework for everything means that each time we meet and in my groups, people meet twice a month in in those sessions, everybody comes with a question that is answered in B and I.

You kind of broadcast yourself to the room, which is wonderful and has a real place in mastermind's. You ask a question and then you're quiet while you absorb the goodness of the group. It's really powerful.

So I get that. And I was quite clear on the distinction, but I think there's a lot of misconception, misunderstandings for a lot of people if they've never. Hearings to mastermind, these are the conclusions they're going to draw or the assumptions that they're going to make. So I think it's important to look at what are the assumptions people might make about masterminds and sort of try and dispel some of those myths. What other things do you hear people talking about when they push back against the idea of a mastermind, whether it may be misunderstood or had some false assumptions around what it actually is?

Well, because there isn't a federation, there wasn't a body looking after masterminds, although one day I will fix that, I will create a Federation of Mastermind Excellence fome. Probably nice simply because I want to be head of the federation. I would like to I would like to manage the whole thing. But outside of foam being created, there are a lot of people that just adds the word mastermind to all sorts of things that the effective part of a mastermind is the group together, people who see you and understand you.

So sometimes people will take a Facebook group with 10000 people in it and call it a mastermind. That, my friends, is not a mastermind, not even close to a mastermind. So that's one of the biggest things. I wasn't a mastermind of a thousand people, and it was rubbish. Well, yes, it would be. So first of all, it's a smallish number. It is people where, you know, everybody that is really important and that makes a big difference.

Now, you can also potentially run and I've done it myself, you can run a mastermind where it's all peer's together. It's not there's no one coach in charge. And that can work very well. Obviously, when I'm in a mastermind, I tend to be the person doing that because that's my that's the main part of my business. But they can be terrible. Free masterminds tend to fall apart quite quickly because facilitation and curation the right people in the group and making sure that the balance of who speaks and the coaching and the mix of people is right.

If you don't have somebody looking after that, it can get awful one sided where one person is just taking up all the oxygen in the room. And that is painful. And if you've experienced something like that that's called a mastermind, they are painful.

I get that. And I think I've seen all different kinds. And my next question was going to be, and you you've halfway answered it, but I think there's probably another answer as well. There are masterminds where there is the mastermind host and then there is sort of almost like a hybrid of a coaching group where it's I'm going to say top down. I can't think of another way to say it is a mentor led perhaps is a better way to put it.

And then there's a pure mastermind group where there's no real mentor or leadership beyond maybe administrative leadership. What's your perspective on those two models? Are there inherent problems with one or the other benefits?

Well, they can both work, but the key to a paid mastermind is that you've chosen to be in the room of the person who's leading it, the mentor, as you say, with a free mastermind or alleged mastermind. You potentially haven't curated as carefully. Sometimes you have. Sometimes you've chosen your three most successful people and they are absolutely in accordance with each other, but often a three mastermind. The only curation is I like my friend, my friend who's available on a Wednesday.

And we need a bit more than that really so often. And those pre masterminds, often they sort of fizzle out after two or three months because that driving force isn't at the same rate in a peer led mastermind. You can have this amazing support group, but you're also if you're the person facilitating it, you're doing this quite complicated mental thing, which is you have to at some point shift gear from, you know, you speak next and you speak next.

And I think I think we've heard enough from you now that side of facilitation, you then have to shift gear to be in. And now I'm in the hot seat. Now I have to ask a question, and that is quite a difficult sort of mental piece of juggling to do. It's possible. Of course it is, but it's not fun.

I can see that. I really, really can see that. That's two very different modes of being from being a host to participant. It's a difficult switch to make.

Absolutely. And also, if I may add to that, there's also part of it. If some mastermind's mix training and masterminding in the same call, and I strongly suggest that that is not. The best way to do it for the same reason, because if you are teaching one to many, your brain as one of the many is in a kind of receiving mode, you're writing down information and you're fact checking and questioning. So you're in a kind of a how and a what mode, but for masterminding to work, you want to be in an emotional space where you are thinking about the best way to support the group.

So you're sharing you're all leaning in together. And that shift between one to many and we're all here together again, just like the shift from facilitating to being from participant to host is hard. It is equally hard to go from I'm learning. Oh, wait, now I'm in now I'm in a what are more of a commune with the group. Yeah.

So obviously masterminds are masterminding being the core of your business. Who is it that hires you to help and what are they hiring you to help with and what's your deliverable there? And when you're looking at potential mastermind hosts or owners, what are you looking for in terms of they're viable, they're probably not viable?

OK, so in my own groups, I as a strategist, I help people go from making money, maybe 100k a year, but not consistently. Sometimes they may come up, they have a good month, sometimes they have a bad month to regular good months and move towards 300 grand a year. So I take them from a hundred grand and take them getting the structure and the strategy to get to 300. Now, the interesting thing for me about that is that most of my clients, when they arrive, think that the problem is a mechanism, that they're missing some kind of structure, some something is missing in their business when it's actually really a mindset business.

Sure, they have to get consistent in outreach and marketing, of course. But there isn't like a magic. Oh, you need this special gizmo and everything's going to be fine. And what you do in a mastermind is this year, if it's a year long mastermind this year, we put in place the things. So you get the results next year. It's from a story point of view. This is where you're in the second act and the third act is where you get the results and it really works.

And because of that, when the next year begins to loom on the horizon, the clients can see that they're going to get that result and that's why they react. That's where people stay with me for a long time.

So sorry. Go on.

So so that's why that's that's what I do. I take people for 100K to three hundred K and when I'm training people to be in a mastermind to run a mastermind rather when I training people to run a mastermind, what I'm looking for is somebody who helps their clients make decisions in their business. That's really the key. If you do that and you like other humans, then masterminding is probably for you.

So let me ask you this then, because I guess if you're me, everyone and his mother seems to be running a monster right now, if you're listening to this, you may not see what I see, because obviously my network is full of people like Please and me who are embedded in this. But the sort of the reticular activating system seems mastermind's everywhere I go. So somebody who's thinking about launching a mastermind is immediately going to be struck with potentially the imposter syndrome of a.

But will they want to join a mastermind with me? What if they're already in a mastermind? Am I the right person? What happens if I try and launch this mastermind and I just get Tumbleweed or I get two people? Would that be humiliating? What mindset issues, I guess, is the question I'm coming to do you find are around the idea of launching a mastermind and how do you help people pass those towards actually taking action?

When you write the first, anything you do can be hard. And for most of us, we we do have moments of what on earth why would anyone pay me to do that? But the joy of a mastermind is that you can really maximise something, that you have years of experience and you don't have to be a coach. You don't have to know an incredible amount more than your clients. What you need to be able to do is to bring together the right people in the room, which is careful curation.

If you have the right people together, then you can guide them through the conversation. And one of the joys of masterminding is if for some reason you you don't have an answer to that question when. The group is giving their thoughts, you speak last. So if you genuinely have nothing to add to whatever that question is, you can make kind of gracious noises like, well, I think the group's really answer that. What a wonderful, lovely group of people you are.

How intelligent. I think Dave had a wonderful thing. I think Bob had a wonderful thing to add that I'd like to plus one, all of that. And that adds to that feeling of community. And you haven't really said anything, not, of course, that I ever do, such as such a thing myself. But but absolutely anyone can do it as long as you are bringing the right people together. So maybe we should talk about curation.

Well, this is where I was going to go next, because as somebody who for the last 18 years has been on a hamster wheel of sales, really it's only in the last five years or so that the pressure has come off me from a sales perspective, largely through to investing in my personal brand and changing my business model a little bit. But. I'm very good at selling, and the danger then becomes you end up with a group of people who have been sold to or persuaded to join rather than a group of people of a burning need for what you do.

So how do you manage that curation process in order that you get the right people, the people who have a genuine need, rather than those people you managed to persuade?

Curation starts with your theme, whatever your master mind is about. And it must be about something just the same way as if you were running a master class or a webinar. It's got to have a theme. So whatever your master mind is about needs to be something that your ideal client actually needs. Plus, of course, something that you personally can help them with. So in my case, it is growing the business, its strategy. In your case, obviously, it would be personal branding or marketing or perhaps even sales.

All of those things we know they have now, we can just put people together. And if you're good at sales, as you obviously are, you can sell people on things they don't want. That is not what you want ethically at any time, but be certainly not something you want for a mastermind because the group is going to be together for a long time.

That's what I was going to say, is that the problem with the mastermind is let's say I was selling a box of screws. I can sell a box of screws to somebody who doesn't really need a box of screws. There's never going to be any blowback. They'll just put the screws on the shelf and forget about it. Whereas with a mastermind, you're going to have somebody in the room for the next six months who probably doesn't need to be there.

And that's a real problem.

So in my own business, I have two two ways to get around this. So first of all, I say very, very clearly that there are no refunds. Once you're in, you're in is the Hotel California policy. And that's because I want to make sure that once people join their certain and next to the Hotel California, your policy is if you have any doubts, don't buy. Let's hop on a call and check. This is a good fit.

And what I'm looking for in a client like that is I'm not just looking in the client. I'm looking at what the group needs. And a good, well balanced mastermind has several things that are quite important. Obviously, there's the basics like people moving in the same direction for their goals. They have, roughly speaking, the same goals, but they're also moving at the same speed to those goals. So if you and I wanted to make a million dollars this year and you're at nine hundred thousand and I'm just starting, we're not moving at the same speed, you would be annoyed by how slow I am.

And I would be terrified by how experienced you are, except if you are very close to your million dollars. And I'm just starting. But this is my sixth business and I just left a business where I had a wonderful exit. I have millions of dollars to spend on this. I have a massive team and I might be moving more quickly than you are, in which case you might feel intimidated by the fact that, good God, this woman seems to be you know, she can do stuff in the two weeks between calls that I can't even dream of.

So you want that same speed to go. That's really important. So one of the other things that's really important for curation is to have a mix of people, not just personalities, but a mix of introverts and extroverts, because the way introverts and extroverts, it's not about how you feel about being in the crowd. It's how your mind processes are quite is quite important. Introverts tend to do a lot more internal thinking and then bring out an idea that's mostly formed to share, whereas extroverts, we tend to think and clarify our thoughts by speaking.

Now you need both thoughts in a group, but you also, from a curation point of view, that energy is going to be very helpful. And from a facilitation point of view, you need to warn you need to warn the introverts before you speak to them, because otherwise they will say, I have got to think I'm still thinking about it and you need to warn the extroverts if you're going to make them wait, because they will get to a point where they're like, oh, I forgot.

I was going to say, now it's all part facilitation. So a mix of people, similar goals, a similar speed to go, and then also the basics. Like you personally, I think this is really important. You personally have to like the group.

Yeah. As you might know, the show is supported by our sponsor. I go Arapiles. Now, you know how hard it is to juggle all the things in your business, the accounts, the meetings, the never ending inbox. And that's why I teamed up with a group to give you more than five hours back a week. When it comes to managing your social media marketing. No complicated Excel talks. Long emails are millions of open times. Simply manage all your social media channels in one place.

Go to amplify me dot agency, forgo ripostes to score two months for free on me now or you have to do is figure out how you want to spend those spare five hours. I would like to talk money because obviously we're all in business to make money. And the reason somebody would introduce a mastermind into the business model or their product line is because they want to increase their revenue. So where should a master mind set within your product mix and what impact could it have on your other offerings?

If you see what I mean, because if you introduce a mastermind at, say, 500 pounds a month, what if you are currently offering one to one coaching coaching at five hundred a month? There's a mismatch there. There's a disconnect. So how do you find people's product ecosystems shift when they start to bring in a mastermind?

Well, there's two places you can put a mastermind. You can put it below your one to one coaching as a cheaper way to work with you. I have a friend who is a director of marketing, and she is I think she's 10000 a month normally. So she has a mastermind that is 2000 months. So she's getting the same amount for the five or six people in a group for the time she spends with them. And they're getting a break on the price because they're in a group.

Or you can position it so that it's something you graduate into after you've done the one to one time, after you've got all the basics in place, then you are an alumni and can move into a much more exciting high range group. And they're part of what you're selling is the other people in the group, the fact that you are moving in lock step with a group of people who are your community now because you're in the mastermind together.

And how would you advise somebody to manage pricing on a mastermind within the context of of their business at that time?

Well, obviously, it it depends where you start, but where I suggest for my students and all my pricing, as you pointed out, is all my pricing is in US dollars because that's where most of my clients are. But what I suggest you do is that the very first mastermind is only three months, not a not a six month, not an eight month, not a year, just three months. So you can see if you like it or not.

So that's seven sessions. And in three months you can do something very specific. It might be the first step of all the work you do with your clients. It could be if it was a a book coaching mastermind, it might be you outline the book. It's that kind of thing. So you do something specific. And in that you would then have a choice on where you where you position it. So where I suggest people start is that you start at five hundred dollars a month and that you offer that very first one instead of a 1500, you offer an early bird that brings it to just under a thousand dollars so that if you have four people, you're going to earn just under four grand or six people just under six right now.

If you if you're listening to this and thinking, I want to charge much more than that, absolutely. Do that. There is pretty much no limit to how you price this, just as you would with coaching. I might recommend to a new coach that they start at a hundred dollars dollars an hour. But of course, if you want to charge a thousand and you have clientele that can do that, then that's where you start.

That makes perfect sense. I think I've kind of asked his question already, but from a suitability perspective, if you were to go out actively looking for a group of people that you wanted to start mastermind's, what would you be looking for? Who would you be able to look at and go, I know you're golden for it.

So your favourite clients, always the way isn't the people that I would start with. I was going to put together a mastermind for a new client. I would suggest they look at their the people that they adore, working with the people that are sociable and helpful and yet also have blind spots like we all do. So people that really want to get involved. And also there in that open frame of mind, you don't want someone in the group that's a no bot person or I don't like the sound of that.

Obviously, not everybody is going to be a great one. But you want people who are open and together and ready for that. And if I can sort of move us towards the way that I suggest people fill their first mastermind, which is you don't me. This is the beauty of. But you don't need a big fancy sales page and a big funnel. If you sit down and you think about those ideal people, you're already beginning to curators who would be in the mastermind who's a good fit.

You're already thinking about personalities and how much time you like spending with. Them and how they might fit together and how, you know, you can help them over time. So that list, if you can get 12 people on the list, you can get 16 people, at least you can pretty much fellow four person mastermind. Now, if you're lucky and can put 20 people on a list, you can fill a six person mastermind possibly to four people masterminds.

So all you need for that is you you get clear on the idea, you get your list and then you gently suggest the idea to them and you follow up with a call if they're interested. And it's so simple. Even now, eight years into masterminding, I still feel at least one mastermind a year just by direct outreach. I'm doing this new thing. It's really exciting. I'd love for you to be part of it. You're a great fit.

You want to talk about it, and you're not sending people to sales pages or complex funnels. It's very linear. I really like that.

It is. All you need is a simple email to follow up saying, you know, hey, Bob, it was great to be speaking to you. This is the mastermind I was telling you about. Click here to pay for it. These are the dates. I really hope you can be part of it. This offer's open till Friday. Click here.

So let me turn the question right around and think from your perspective as Liz, when you're looking at customers thinking that person really needs to start to mastermind, what are the standout features that you see as golden from that perspective?

Hmm, interesting question. So if they already have a good group of people that they've already you know, as we talk about last month, if your listeners are thinking actually, I do know some people, that's a really good sign. Also, anyone who's been in a mastermind and been very happy about it is going to know quite how lovely they are. But obviously, sadly, the whole world has not been a good mastermind. But if you can facilitate well, and that's a task that's a skill that many of us have if you can facilitate.

Well, and you were used to guiding your clients to decisions, and that's pretty much all coaches and consultants if you're used to guiding those conversations, mastermind's are a great fit for you.

I think what I love about mastermind's and group coaching and I'm on a I'm going to break with my group right now and I'm going to be bringing it back. So if anybody's listening, thinking I want to be in Bob's mastermind, reach out, now is a very good time. But I loved it. It was probably the highlight of my month from a from a fullfillment perspective. It was the best part of my business. But this is important commercially.

I went through the exercise of looking at all the different things I did in my business and calculating the effective hourly rate of each element. And the mastermind group was coming out very high and my group was inexpensive. Let me just put it that way. Compared to the the numbers we've been talking about, it was below you're way below your bottom range, but it was still still the most productive and profitable part of my business.

And it's so much fun as well. Yeah. I spend most of my days just hanging around with smart people, listening to their thoughts, brilliant.

And that that's why I do a podcast flatterer. But this is the thing. I mean, although you're talking relatively modest amounts of money, and yet if you're talking 500 dollars, what, five hundred dollars to me and somebody else might mean two very different things. Let's just assume it's a relatively modest monthly outlay for a business owner. But for you, when you look at collectively the value that mastermind is bringing to you as the person who's delivering it, it's really, really commercially worthwhile, probably the most worthwhile thing you'll do.

So I just want to say that there's a bit of reinforcement that mastermind's, they might sound a little bit wacky, but they really allow you. And this is obviously it's wacky if you've never heard of them, if you've been participating in them. And it's very mainstream, very productive, commercially so worthwhile. And from a personal fulfilment perspective, if you're well aligned with doing that kind of work and being sociable and facilitating is going to be the most fulfilling work you ever do as well.

Absolutely. And one of the one of the delights. But is you don't need to be an extrovert to run them because obviously introverts are not shy. They just don't want to meet lots and lots of people and masterminds the same group all the time. It's like going to a regular dinner party. You get to know the people. And for me, as I said, I run a business strategy mastermind. I'm sure that's why my business has grown so quickly, because I get to hear my brilliant clients helping each other with brilliant ideas and they become super fans.

I can test things with them. I can try bits of copy on them. They are always the people that buy anything. I've got first is just such a lovely thing. Plus, there's no homework afterwards. And frankly, as long as you've got the cameras switched on in your face in the right direction, you've got a shirt on. You are good to go 30 seconds before that.

So there's I want to talk about your business a little bit. What is it that makes your business tick? What do you do for money? How do you serve your clients? What is an engagement with you look like on the various ways people can engage with you? And what's a good looking client for you? I don't know what those questions were and I say even make sense together.

Well, as I said, I help coaches and consultants. Do I think I said this so I help coaches and consultants, copywriters, designers, anyone that has that. I hate that phrase. A knowledge based business. But that principle, I'm sure many of your clients are in the same position. So people that help people and my clients have a wicked sense of humour and they really want to do really well without destroying the planet. And it sounds really small, but nice humans that are doing lovely work.

I would not describe this normally as an ideal client, but it's very important to me and it is so nice to spend time with people who are energised about what they're doing. I never I mean, because that's the other thing is because of the curation, I get to choose who I work. So super connected, super engaged people and I help people with strategy, positioning, messaging and more and more, I'm sure you the same. More and more.

I've realised that the heart of everything is positioning. And once you get your position right, you know how you advertise. Your messaging is beautifully clear. Mastermind's will give you that. Just uplift around that. So I train people in mastermind's because they have changed my business. They are the way I work with clients. And frankly, as I said, I just spend my days giggling with lovely people.

Right? So if people want to connect with you, they want to go further with you. How would you like them to do that?

Well, I have made a special page for listeners of your podcast. You can go and pick up some information about Mastermind's. You can go to rethink central dot com exemplify and find some freebies. Therefore, you know, opt in. You can just go and get a whole bunch of lovely things. I'll speak to I'll speak to you, Bob, afterwards to find out what would be the best thing to have on there. And if you would like to follow me via Instagram, you can find me at Rethink Central.

And also I'm just starting a new business called Evil Koch, which is ridiculous and is it's not for everyone, shall we say. It's not for everyone. It's quite salty. But if you fancy if you fancy checking that out, it's all the things I've ever wanted to say as a coach with a weird side of kink. It is very strange. It's also on Instagram. It's Obey Evil Coach. That's a yes. Edgy. It's a bit of a left turn from coaches and copyrighter.

That's fantastic. Makes me giggle.

So I'm going to finish with one question that I remember to ask everyone these. And that's what's one thing you do now that you wish you'd started five years ago.

I actually do a huge number of just random calls with people not not not absolutely completely random daily. But I make sure I do a huge number of networking calls either every week or every month. And I started doing them when I was I live in India. I used to work in the film industry and a lot of the networking, the people that are now my closest friends that became my clients, they came from making sure that I had made Connexions and now this is the thing I didn't used to do.

Now I have at least four hours a month, which is just set aside to talk to people. It has been such a good thing for my business and I think that really is what it's what's at the heart of masterminding as well. I had summed up to me as friends helping friends, which I think sums everything up. That's really the secret web, I guess that's almost underpinning this whole Internet business thing. Personal branding is important, yes. But never underestimate the power of Connexions and people.

And I'm not talking from a manipulative perspective, but if you can genuinely reach out and help somebody to reciprocate and that for me is one of the key strengths of a master mind is just a group of friends helping each other and the rising tide lifting all ships. That's been huge in my business. I'm sure it's been huge and yours and I hope to the listener they can start to make it huge in theirs, too. So don't underestimate, as Liz said, the power of simply reaching out and making contact with someone.

Liz, you have been an awesome guest, has been great to spend this time with you. And hopefully I get to meet you in person sometimes once once I start travelling again after the pandemic. But for now, thank you so much for being such a great guest.

It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe and join our Facebook group. You'll find a link in the show, notes or visit, amplify me, talk there from forward. Slash insiders also connect with me. Wherever you hang out, you'll find me on all of the social platforms at Pop Gentil. If you enjoyed the show, then I would love a five star review on our podcast that would make my day. And if you share the show with a friend, you would literally make my golden list.

My name is Bob Gentil. Thanks to you for listening and I'll see you next week.


Thanks for listening!

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