This week my guests are Greger and Jenny Hillman. Greger and Jenny Hillman are based in Sweden and work with Swedish speaking business owners around the world to help them build and grow their businesses online in a private membership website. Business is booming for them now - but it wasn’t always like that.
About the Hillmans'
Jenny & Greger are married, they’ve got kids, a house and all that good stuff. Until a few years ago they ran a successful Web Agency in Sweden. However, after nearly getting burned out they realised something had to change.
In 2017 they founded HillmanAcademy.se, a Swedish membership website for business owners and entrepreneurs who wants to work smarter and level up their business online…
They went from having client work to teaching and supporting their members on topics like how to setup ad campaigns, building funnels, developing websites, doing SEO and so on.
The membership model is far less stressful but offers different kind of challenges which you can hear all about in this episode.
Links and mentions
Thanks for listening!
It means a lot to me and to the guests. If you enjoyed listening then please do take a second to rate the show on iTunes. Every podcaster will tell you that iTunes reviews drive listeners to our shows so please let me know what you thought and make sure you subscribe using your favourite player using the links below.
Automatic Show Transcript
Hi there, welcome back to amplify the digital marketing entrepreneurs podcast. I'm Bob Gentle. And every week I'm joined by creators, consultants and practitioners who share what makes their business work. Whether you run your own business, or you're just thinking of stepping out on your own for the first time, you're in the right place. If you're new to the show, then welcome along. Just take a second right now to subscribe in your podcast player. That way you don't miss new weekly episodes, and you can dig into some older ones when you finish this one. Welcome along also to our new Facebook group members. As always, don't forget to introduce yourselves. And if you're new to the show, then you will want to join our Facebook group. Just search amplify insiders on Facebook and you'll find us easily.
So this week I'm delighted to welcome Greg and Jenny Hellman from Hillman Academy, Jenny Gregor would one of you like to tell us a little bit about who you are where
You are in the kind of work you do. Thanks. First, first of all, thank you, Bob, for having us on your podcast.
Maybe you can tell I'm Gregor. Yeah. And I'm Jenny. And we are recording this from our home in Sweden. We're based in Sweden, where Swedish and this is where we also run our business from. And we have a membership. And it's called human Academy, where we teach and help us support Swedish entrepreneurs and business owners who wants to grow their business and their brand with the help of the internet. So that's basically what we do. Yep, yep. So we first met your printer, Chris Tucker's event and then at atomic with Andrew and Pete, and your businesses really intrigued me. I'm a bit of a stalker on. Everything you do is really, really polished. And I really admire that. So I was keen to get some time to speak to you and dig into
Your Business story a bit, listeners, whatnot. But a large part of your business now is a membership website where you work with business owners to learn to market themselves. But what led to that? Because it hasn't always been that way. Yeah. We can give them a little bit of background maybe from because this isn't our first venture. Of course, we've had other businesses prior to this. And I'm not sure how long we should go back. Because I'm
always going to get this question is really interesting because I normally start off well, everything began when I was four years old, but that may be stretching this a little bit too far. So
Jen and I, we met
What is it? 17 years. Back in 2002? Yep. We were studying at the School of Music in Sweden. So we have we have a background as musicians. Yeah. And music teachers as well and done a lot of
recording and touring. So we've been running our own businesses. We already started back then we actually had our own, like smaller, smaller businesses as freelance musicians. And we did a lot of touring as well. Yeah. Yep. And basically from, from that time back in 202, we
realized that we were best when we're together. That's like a really good foundation for whatever you're going to do. If it's in life or in business, when you find that person, it's really, really good. Because we are married and we have two kids. Yeah. So So yeah, you do basically everything together. Yeah. And how old are your kids? They're actually our oldest is eight and our youngest is turning six. Yeah, yeah. So we have two boys. So and they're go to school.
Just it's a five minute walk from our home. So it's, it's we work with them together
every morning, and then we'll go and pick them up in the afternoon. So that's a good age for running a business. What was that? That's a good age for running a business. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it can be intense. Yeah. And of course, they are a big, big thing for us just, we want to grow and build a business where we can run our time. And we can we can decide what Yeah, our schedule needs to be flexible, because we love to work. We love what you do. But we also love to be the fan love for you to explore things to travel. And so we have a caravan so during the summers, we go by caravan and do a lot of camping. And that's really nice. And I mean, our business now is in our computer, so it doesn't really matter where we are. And that's it.
Not that, you know, the drinks on the beach, all that. That's really nice, maybe for a week, but, you know, overall, being able to control your time and decide when to work is really, really powerful. Yeah. And so, so that that has always been one of our big aims. So let's get back to how you got there because it wasn't always like that. Yeah, I wasn't.
No, definitely not. So
we have like several turning points on this journey up to where we are now. I think the first one was, when we both were working, I think as music teachers, and I, I enjoyed working as a teacher, but I felt like something was missing. So we were working as music teachers part time and also freelancing. And I wanted to explore something else. I wanted to do something else.
looked actually to my brother who's has a business of its own. We don't have that much background in my family of running businesses, but he had a business of his own. And I was really interested in in getting into business more than I was up until that point. So, I did research a lot of research on different business ventures. And we actually ended up starting self serve.
carwash Yeah. So you can drive in whenever you want and, and wash your car basically. So yeah, like for what is it called for?
Like home? Yeah, base. Yeah. And so you can drive in and wash your car. So that was our first business outside of the music business, I guess. So from from music to carve out.
To online business, yeah. But I can tell it and there. No, no. Well, we should probably point out that and everybody knows this. I actually listened to a few of your prior guests, and I can hear this as well. So I think a lot of listeners can relate to the fact that this is not a straight road ahead. I mean, a lot of stuff can happen along the way. And for us, the carwash adventure ended up being really an adventure and we actually had to close down that business. We were ahead of our time, basically for for that type of service in that city where we built this and in the time when we were closing it down, we expected our first son, so it's what it was a lot of pressure, yeah, pressure and emotions and we have, we have a really good support system around us with
Both my family and Janice family and we actually have the opportunity to, to reinvest in that same business and move forward with it. But we decided to call it the day, basically, because now that the stakes were too high to keep pushing that, I think that's also thing. It's it's hard to realize or come to the realization station when you've been working on something really hard for a long time. This was like, three years in the making. And, and it's really hard to
come to that conclusion. Okay, so this is the end of this journey. That's that's really, really unusual. I've been in business 15 years, and it's very rare to see somebody close down a business. Yeah, not because they've run out of money but because they know it's just wrong. Now that's that's right. And for us, it was it was not moving in the direction that we
I wanted and that we needed as well. And I think also, like Jenny said, expecting our first son. It was a lot of things to consider moving forward. And so that was
quite a hard decision to make. But
it turned out for the better. I think so. Yeah, yeah. So from there, we started the agency. And that's basically our next one venture. We ran our marketing agency for
about seven years. Yeah, yeah, it's coming up on seven years now. We still have a few clients.
Left, like three, three clients that we keep working with. And that's basically because we need to, to be in the business as well as if we want to help others. We need to actually be and feel the pulse of the business and
where things are heading with digital marketing and everything like that. Otherwise you become really irrelevant or relevant. That's a hard word. Irrelevant really quickly. So. So we still have three clients, but we ran the agency for five years, like full steam ahead. You all have always been talking about
pivoting just to the membership model. Yeah. But I wasn't fully in
for it. No, I wasn't. I wasn't sure. And now, now, we see it. Now the membership model is growing in Sweden. Yeah. But at that time, it wasn't that.
No, no, no, not that familiar and not the common. So. So but now, as you say, it's starting to pop up a lot more memberships of different kinds in different niches as well. So, Jenny, you mentioned that you weren't very keen on
The idea the membership website. Can you maybe tell me a little bit about what it was it was putting the offer giving the anxiety? What was the major push back on the membership idea? Well, I think, like,
I had the view of membership as the gym that I always paid, but I didn't go. So the gym car became guard. Yeah. So so just to why, why should and that's because we had a couple of big, big companies that were worked for. Yeah. And it was, Why should I give that away, just to have
a small membership.
But then we've talked about a lot and I realized that that's a better way to do it. Because you don't have to, you don't have the pressure to chase big customer and projects to do
together to get the the income that you need.
So the model is switched upside down basically, exactly. From the big projects. Yeah, it's a difficult journey. I used to employ a lot of people. And we're in most of our monthly revenue from larger website projects. It was a big piece to to feed had to be constantly on sales mode, the idea of dropping all that to move to small retainers, or as you have to a membership fee of 35 $40 a month to seemed like insanity on some level. But like everything else, I suppose you have to start with the end in mind. Yeah. And we actually made a decision to cut it rather.
Yeah, well, we scaled it down, but we did that really quickly. Because we knew that if we didn't give hundred percent in focus in the membership, it wouldn't never had the opportunity to grow. Know. So that was like, what the agency was doing really well. So we actually we
We did some math and found out that Okay, so we if we launch this, as we did back in 2017, it was September. So we have been out on two years now, actually. So we knew that we had a pretty good you know, segue time or time to segue over to get the membership to grow. And so we didn't start from scratch. Like we had money in the bank for this. And I think that's also a good good way to go. So you have some some lead way in, but I think we actually we took that is the sheesh and it was mid summer 2000 our care about you know, mid summer 2017.
And we were basically Yeah, pretty much both of us a little bit fed up with the agency model.
actually had exciting anxiety attacks prior to that vacation, like coming into the summer, like finishing a few big projects. And we were I know, we were supposed to leave on a Friday up there, and we couldn't we can go. Because my arm has a license to drive I Karen so it's now I said we have a pretty large caravan. And so you need a another type of license. So I'm driving, but we can leave because my arms were like an human body was like acting really weird. So I was a little bit scared that something really bad was happening, but we decided just to stay home. And then the next day it like, had worn worn off a little bit. So going into that vacation, it was like we need to make a change here somehow. So
there was a question
Quite an easy, like decision to make, I think, at least for me when when we were sitting in the Karen,
mid summer Eve, yeah, the decision was easy, but then to do do it. Yeah, it's another story. Yeah. But I mean, like all entrepreneurs like we Jenny said before we will, we like to work we love to I love to work, I think is really, you know, doing creative work, developing a website or setting up a membership website, and like the tech and the total nerd for that. So that like, whole process just gave me a lot new energy. Yeah. And I think for both of us, was like, yeah, we're starting actually building something for ourselves now, instead of building for a customer. Exactly. So that was cool. That must be really, really satisfying. I mean, I don't want to speak for anyone else, but sorry.
I've failed more and more particularly recently. And it must be really nice to build something for yourself a legacy product, if you like, which, once you've built you can build on and which returns value to you over time. As you deliver value to others, not something we have to keep going back and starting from scratch all the time. Yeah, yeah. And that's the amazing combination. Now we build our own business and we make it grow. But at the same time, we help other business owners to grow their business a lot more Yes, owners now than before. Yeah, so that's a really, really nice combination. Yeah, we, I mean, we both have a background as as teachers as well, and from the agency side and we love being creative. We love teaching and, and helping, and for us, it's been like the perfect model.
And also going from big projects. Either you get them or you don't
Moving over to having like, a lot of members that pay
a lot smaller amount of money each month. So like the whole cash flow Syria situation as well has totally changed. So that pressure now, when we're coming up on two years, it's gone. I mean, it's it's not at all the same as it was. Yeah, but it will also have to say the first year. Yeah, it was tough. Yeah, that was hard. So what the launching look like for you, obviously, you're starting with zero content. And you're starting with zero members. How did you square that circle? So you had some content to launch with? And what did the launch look like? Yeah, we actually started a behind the scenes building some courses, the foundation, and then we started doing a lot of Facebook Lives. To do our audience. Yeah. To bring bring people into to our world. Yeah, sorry to speak. But we also had a
I had a personal brand that I built on the side of our agency for a few years prior to that. And we also have
a podcast that we do together now. It's called Hillman problem. It's in Swedish. So it might be a little bit hard to understand what we're saying there. But anyway, just listen to it anyway. Yeah, you should. You should just to help us. Subscribe and download. It's only polite.
That's the call to action. Bob. That's right. Yeah.
So so we had, we had a little bit of an audience going into this well, that we could like, focus over towards Hillman Academy. That was really good. But I mean, when we met back in 2017, for the printer summit,
we had just launched Yeah, we had 15 members that I know I remember and we, the cool thing is that several
Well, those I think most of them actually, they're still in the members. Yeah, they're still in the membership. So, I mean, that's pretty awesome.
Have you found the retention has been good? Because I imagine in most membership websites, retention is probably a key area of concern. That hasn't actually been a problem for us now. So we have very good retention. Yeah. The can always be better, but of course really relevant. It's really good. And it has always been Yep. From the start. Yeah. The first year. We
got the impression that it was hard to get the people inside the membership. Yeah. And we never offered a free trial or anything like that. So we always like
this. Yeah, we kept we kept it on the inside, so to speak, that you needed to pay to, to access we didn't want this to be like, free trial, $1 trial or anything, because we knew that
the right people went when we dialed in the marketing, they would come and try this out. And from what we found when they try this out, they stay a member for a long time. So we knew the product was, was really good as well. But I mean,
the retention can always be better. But we are really fortunate that, you know, it's, we keep the members for a long time. I also think that a part of that has to do with the way that we onboard everybody and the way that we present our material and how we talk to our members on our member calls. Because we want even though this has grown now we want this to be like a personal experience as far as possible. Without I mean, we don't mean actually at times, we mean our members
physically as well, which is really cool.
But since this is only
We want to keep this as personal as possible. So we use a few tools for sending video messages to all our new members and, you know,
just reaching out and making sure that they everything is moving along for them. So we have several touch points that we tried to keep up with How frequently do you update your membership site with new content I mean, because I'm it must be really quite challenging to constantly need to find new ways to bring new value. We try to now we actually we slowed down a little bit on the course creation. We rather do like more comprehensive courses now. And we put a lot more time into creating those comprehensive courses. And then just like doing smaller courses, so we still do workshops, and we have the live calls
And we also go into we have a forum So, so, I mean, we help our members during the weeks. You know, we have new content if someone has asked a question in the forum Yeah, maybe the answer to that question is a video that Gregor shows something How was how it's done? That can be a new content for where the membership Yeah, so I mean, no. Since our membership, help our members with like setting up a website and working with WordPress, doing online courses, search engine optimization.
ad campaigns for Facebook, Instagram is like a pretty wide, I would say, wide, widespread subjects. So we have like, pillar content for each of these different
niches or other subjects. But then there's always, like from newcomers, for instance, they're always like, questions coming in on someone wants to do a specific thing or hook up with newcomers to to MailChimp in a certain way. We don't do a course on that, then I do just a
short guide instead. So, so I would say like, we probably released one larger course pretty much once per month, I think. But during week from week maybe it's a short video or a guide. Yeah, I think so. But that's also one one thing to to keep keep our work in in that good pace. Yeah, we have a lot of ideas. We have a lot of course ideas, a lot of ideas to to do new things in inside the members you have developed with. Yeah, but we have to do it in that good pace. Even if it's only
You want to get you the basically we want to run on or at least I want to run everything like, Oh, we need to do this and do that. And it's like, whoo. It's, it's like a kid in a candy store. And that's also thing we love just being a two, two part team. So we don't want to grow the team to hire or maybe outsourcing. Yeah, they're not to grow the team. That's further down the line as well, because now we're working pretty hard on processes right now. And it's really interesting. I think I listened to I don't recall what podcasting was, but about a year ago,
this person was talking about the importance of setting up processes in the company. And now back then I was like, well, all this needs to be done. I mean, I don't have time for that. And it's like, now when I think about it, it's it's really interesting. You have to make time you have to make time for it and and once you get the processes in place, and
We're not done yet, but but once you get the processes down, it frees up a lot of time, a lot of time. And so I mean, that's a really good tip for anybody, like running a business. I don't think it depends on what type of business it is. But you need to make time for those processes as we had in the agency, because that made it possible for us to to get a lot of client work done. But here was like, running with in all directions, and pretty much Yeah, a year ago, listening to Jenny a moment ago, which described that because you only work directly with a couple of clients, you've got lots of time to be very creative and focus on your business. So kind of scenario with the average agency owner can't even imagine. It's just a fantasy. And that's a vision I can get really excited about. I really liked the sound of that. So I have a really nerdy technical question and listeners can go and get a cup of coffee. Now for you
I'm a member of a couple of paid membership sites. And they have a paid forum, but they also have a free Facebook group. And I'm not sure how you handle the balance there between the free Facebook group and the paid forum. Because often, in that situation, the paid forum is very, very quiet. How do you handle the Facebook? forum balance? So people engage where you want them to engage? Yeah, we we have talked a lot about Facebook groups that early we decided not to have a Facebook group at all. So we only have the forum. Yeah, we're on Facebook. We have our own Facebook page. Yeah. And during our live shows, of course, there's a q amp a and you can you can ask him we answer but we don't have that that group that Facebook know. So our marketing is, is based around our website. So we use that as like the, the middle point of everything that we do is so
For the podcast for Facebook, YouTube, email marketing, everything is pointing back to our website where we can control things. But as far as
you know, getting our members to use the forum, we have quite a bit of onboarding with our members. email sequence, we also give them a call to action in our welcoming video call, not vehicle but video message that we send using from Europe. And we try to get them engaged in the forum pretty much right away. And now there's a lot of discussions going on there so they can see that, okay, this is where I can post.
But we actually have from time to time, especially a new members that reach out via email or on social media as well and ask us things and then we try to or actually what we
Do we redirect them to, to the forum? So it's something can go something like this. So, oh, this is an awesome question. I want to help you out this. If you can post this in the forum, I can link up the resources right away, and then they realize, okay, okay, then then I know I can get the next steps. So that's the way that we basically train our members on using the forum for everything because that's, we can do email support. We don't do telephone or phone support.
The only ways that our members connect with us, you know, with within the membership is through the forum, our courses and our member calls, and then you can book a coaching session. You can book an extra coaching session that's not included in the marriage membership, but we have a discount for our members. So just being a member, they have the benefit of a
booking a one to one session with me with a discount. Yeah, so that's been working well as well, too. That's really neat. A lot of people particularly podcasters, use Facebook groups, as I kind of free community as a way to engage with listeners. Yeah, but I've heard that it can be very hard to then when people away from that, or to migrate to something more robust, or dare I say, even commercial, like a forum. And another thing, just a point on on the podcasting side of things. What we do with our podcast
is that we have a really solid call to action for each episode. So basically, we have our we have the domain, which is the same name as the podcast, and we use that domain name for branding in the podcast, and then we have episode number. So we have articles on our blog. So we bring
We're just recorded Episode 109. The other day. So our call to action in that episode is for the listener to go over to read the article over at Hill important dot sec slash 109. So the numbers one on nine. So that way we also funnel people, rather over to our website, then out on Facebook. Yeah, that's a really good idea. Another question I would like to ask is about the psychology of membership site ownership. Because I think I don't really know how you set with this. But I know imposter syndrome and digital marketing is a really big problem and holds a lot of people back to this factor for you at all. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think everybody feels that imposter syndrome at some time. But what we've done this is not our idea at all. I'm not sure I think we picked this up from Mike NK
Alright, membership guys.
were part of their membership as well. Big shout out, we love them, we're going to retain live as well, their big conference here in about a week. And
we keep a folder on our computer where we do screenshots of all the positive comments that we get. And we can see also the difference that we make. But if you get one comment that's negative, or one person that thinks something or says something that can really start to mess with your mind and then it's a really good thing to have that folder and just just the fact that we are too so we can discuss this back and forth. Just to know Okay, is this is this person things this does that mean that, that we don't know what we're doing? No, it doesn't mean okay. Maybe we
We can try to explain this in a better way. But
now I think that that thing has played a big,
big part in just keeping it keeping saying nothing, basically, but of course,
I feel that at times, but I also know what I know. I don't know everything I know, quite a bit, but definitely not everything. Nobody does that. But so I can see and I can help or direct the person in the right direction. I also think you attract people who are quite the same as you are, you know, and we're like we are we don't make a show. Just when we're doing marketing. We are the ones we are Yeah. And we attract the same kind of people. Yeah, that's basically the another reason why we wanted to build a membership. We want to hang out. Basically we want to be around people that run businesses.
Like have energy want to grow want to improve? because that gives a lot of energy to us as well. And our membership isn't for everyone. No, no, you have to be want to work hard for your own business. Yeah. Because it's not done for you service. No. I mean, we, you know, we, we help out, we teach how to do things and we also coach and like support during the,
in the process. But I think now it's
when you have a community that we we built now, with people that are I mean, everybody has their own goals, but we're going in the same direction we want to grow we want to do and that's really, really cool. But coming back to to the question about imposter syndrome.
I feel that not as much from time to time now, but
I mean, yeah, I don't know when it
Wasn't it was a while ago now. But that, in that that really sounded bad because you need you need to be, you need to be I think that what I'm trying to say is you, you need to be humble and also realize your limitations and being willing to grow and learn. I think once you've been doing it for a little while, and you get some feedback from your customers, and let's face it, if they're paying you, and they're both paying and staying, that's going to help you get over any screaming imposter syndrome pretty quickly. But it is something which I think will affect or should affect anyone in the early stages of building a community like that. Definitely. I mean, for instance, when we have our member calls, we do them live over zoom. So we have like we can have anywhere from 30 people up to close to 100 in the room. It depends on what, what day and what time we we run the the member call we we also record those so you
You can watch afterwards. But
during those calls, we get a lot of different kinds of questions. And that's like a way for me to stay sharp and stay on a, you know, being on edge. And it's a lot of fun. And during that the member calls I'm the moderator. And Gregor gets all the question and he does a great job. It's a lot of fun that afterwards it's kind of yo you need to go out so now Yeah, or go outside and get some marriage like it, there are some letters with being on stage when you perform in that sense. It's not like we're doing a performance but when you do a music performance or playing with the band or you have a big the solo or something you need to focus in in order to, to
present at the highest level and and there's a lot of preparation going into that as well as for us a lot of experience going into
Being able to help. And actually one of our goal is to help our members say time. So if there is a question that you do know the answer, but if it's easier to show in a video or or in the forum, you know, say this, it's a good question. But for for me to explain in a good way, we take it in the forum. Yeah. So then then we save time we get more questions done during the call. And then I basically record the answer or put together the guide for this particular member, and just tag them in the forum. So it's a win for everybody. Then we have that guide in there for other members as well. And the thing just to see see them in the boot camp. It's It's awesome. Yeah, it's pretty cool. So I mean, Sweden is we have 10 million people in Sweden. Everything we do is in Swedish for Hillman Academy. Even though I have a few coaching clients,
from abroad as well.
But our main focus is on the Swedish market. So it's really cool. We have members from going from the northern part of Sweden, which as we know, is a pretty stretched out country, some 10 million people, but from the northern part and down to the southern part, and we actually have a few members that are Swedes, but they're living out in Europe as well. Yeah. And if it's not being a partner, are you comfortable to tell me what kind of membership levels you're at now? Yeah, yeah, sure.
I don't know the exact number, but we're well above 200. We're not I don't think we hit three yet. But we're about 200. Now, let's say that the first year, it was kind of still so we have to
slow growth, right? Yeah. But your two things have started to happen. So you know, this year has been
a good thing. Just to
number so you can you can statistic Yeah, exactly. All right. So you don't go by emotions. Because when you see a member leave, yeah, this feels really or they're leaving. And when it gets someone of course you're happy but it feels more we someone leaves. And if you don't have the numbers and see it, yes you do you go by emotion instead of Okay, this is the real thing. Yeah. then going back to what we talked about we, we want we keep this personal pretty much. We want to keep it personal, as much as possible. So obviously, it's
can be quite sad when somebody leaves but now, since we grown quite a bit since we launched it's another thing and it's part of having a membership. You know, it's part of that side yet. Circle of Life. Yeah, definitely.
sitting over 200 members, that's a pretty thriving membership site. Especially for only two. Yes. So obviously, nobody wants to stand still. So where do you want to take things next?
You wanna you want me to? Should we do them big reveal now we don't have
thing is I think, of course we want to keep building and growing the membership, but also it's so important to have fun along the way. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And and that's really easy to see when we're at where we are now. But when you're, you know, building doesn't matter what you're building. There is a struggle and you need to put in a lot of hours we we have put in a lot of hours and we still put in a lot of hours. But as you say, Jenny when it's when it's also fun and when you actually building something for yourself, that helps a lot of people which is a big, big thing for me. I really, really want to make that type of
impact as well. And the possibilities to as I said before, to, its unique. Yeah, it's the two of us. Great team. Yeah. So we don't build it too wide or too broad or to that we can handle it. So the processing that you were talking about earlier. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think outsourcing may be more relevant to us. In in the future. I'm not sure exactly when. But we definitely want to keep growing and our brand overall is becoming more known in Sweden now as well, which has been one of our goals as well. So I think we're going to just keep building and that has to do with there are several courses that we want to add into the membership. And also, basically just keep working with the podcast. We also do articles, SEO optimized articles. And that has been a
long term strategy from us from the beginning.
We, we actually decided, starting out that we wanted to not just rely on Facebook lies or ads, we needed to be really relevant mainly on Google. But also now we moving more onto YouTube in order to be found, because we need more like breadcrumbs leading back to our website.
So I think that's, I mean, it's a long term play. But I think that's also part of the growth that we're seeing now. Like two years into that. So yeah, I think that's a really clever strategy. A lot of people jump straight into it, I think short term because it's easy, and it works quickly. And they dismiss the long term investment in content which pays dividends, but that may only be in a year.
You are two years down the line when it pays. It really pays. Yeah. And that's, that's another thing that I actually, you know, listening to I listened to a lot of podcasts and Mike Morrison with the membership guys podcast he's been talking about this you know several times as well and how they build their marketing strategy. And since we're in a pretty small niche, and I've been doing SEO quite a bit, and those things were like
putting those things together it was
Yeah, you know, starting out from beginning we we wanted to build up this content as well in order to get this like snowball effect that we're seeing now. So but it takes time, so
but it definitely something that I will recommend.
Jenny, Gregor, I've taken up more than enough of your time now.
I'm really grateful for the time you've given us. I've learned so much. I hope my listener has got as much out of listening to you as I have. If people would like to connect with you, how would you like them to do that? Well, um, we're on social media. So you can reach out, even if it's words in Swedish that you see. Don't be turned off by that you can send us a message, Facebook, Instagram, just search for Hillman Academy, or you can visit our website at Hillman academy.com. Yeah. Thanks again so much for your time, guys. You have been great guests. And I wish you all the success in the world with your business. And I can't wait to speak to you again soon for now. Bye bye. Yeah. Well, thank you, Bob. Thank you. Thank you for having us.
This week my guests are Gregor and Jenny Hellman. Humans are based in Sweden work with Swedish speaking business owners around the world.
To help them build and grow their business online, through a private membership website, business is booming for them. So join us as we talked through their startup, stop and restart story. So welcome along. And let's meet Gregor and Jenny.
I'm really grateful to Gregor and Jenny for that interview, they brought so much value. But for me, the standout element was the carwash and the decision to stop so many people keep going, doing what they're doing, trying tweaks and course corrections, when what they really need is a dramatic change. Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe to the show in your podcast player. And if you haven't already joined our Facebook group. You can find the link in the show notes or just search amplify insiders and Facebook. If you enjoyed the show than I would love for you to review it on iTunes, it would mean a lot to me. And it's the very best way to help me reach more subscribers. My name is Bob Gentle. Thanks again to Gregor and Jenny for their time this week. And thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai