Episode Overview

Some people will tell you it takes many years of trial and error to build a thriving online business. Some will tell you that you need fancy tactics and complex funnels. It's just not so.

Today I'm thrilled to welcome Jasmine Swaged to the show. Jasmine is an incredible content creator , a super focused business owner and a role model for knowing who you are and who you're for.

If you're tired of spinning your wheels online and want to know what moving fast takes then listen in.

Some Key Takeaways.

Setting prices based on personal standards and boundaries, rather than external factors like leads and followers, is crucial for establishing authority and value.

Prioritising setting boundaries and being true to oneself over people-pleasing is essential for personal and business growth.

The challenges faced by younger people on social media and the need to create a new, authentic identity that aligns with personal and business goals.

The importance of niching, finding the right audience, and pricing according to the value of the product for business success.

Automatic Audio Transcription

Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription. There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.

Bob [00:00:00]:
You welcome to amplifyme the personal brand business show. Today on the show, Bob is speaking with Jasmine.

Jasmine [00:00:10]:
Saw aged women like me that are in their twenty? S and thirty? S that, you know, used to have sports backgrounds and now they're trying to find a way to keep up with that level of activity. With a desk job up or their entrepreneur lifestyle, I'm much more likely to go to the person that deeply understands my situation, my background, my needs, rather than the general fitness coach. So when people think when they're more general, they'll get more clients, it's the opposite. Because nobody will know if you're for them and so then nobody will buy from you. So you're actually losing out from not niching down.

Bob [00:00:50]:
Hi there and welcome back to the personal brand business show. My name is Bob Gentle and every week I speak with incredible people who share their secrets to building, marketing and monetizing their expertise and the unique mindset you need for your business to grow and thrive. If you're new to the show, then while you still have your device in your and take a moment to subscribe. And if you're on Apple Podcasts, that's the follow button on pretty much everything else, it'll say a more obvious subscribe. And if you're on YouTube, you really do know what to do. Now. From time to time I meet someone online doing something special. And when Bob sees this, Bob pays attention.

Bob [00:01:25]:
This week's guest has me hooked on TikTok and content at its best should inspire action. And Jasmine has me reaching for my phantom wallet like nobody else has for a very long time. So Jasmine, welcome to the show.

Jasmine [00:01:42]:
Thank you so much for having me. It's so nice to virtually meet and yeah, I'm excited to chat.

Bob [00:01:50]:
Yeah, you've been on the receiving end of my likes for a little while now. I forgot to ask how you say your surname. I'm so used to reading it. How do you say your full name?

Jasmine [00:01:59]:
So I have a jordanian background. My parents were born in the Middle east, so it's not an easy way to say it, but my full name is Jasmine Sawagid. I go by jazz on my social media. And yeah, I've been a content marketing coach for the last year, more or less, really the last six months since I quit my corporate job and recently been focusing on business mentorship. And so I help with online business owners scaling their businesses with content that converts and sells and using their personal brand, personal empowerment and strategy altogether so they can build powerful online presences.

Bob [00:02:39]:
So TikTok for me, is not natural territory, and I'm a TikTok consumer. You'll occasionally see me post stuff on there, but it's really just shoving stuff up on TikTok. And what's really interesting about consuming your content is, like I mentioned, it triggers this impulse to take action in a way that many, many people just don't. I know that's strategies. I know what you're doing, but I love how you do it. And I'm really curious about how this has evolved for you because it hasn't happened overnight. You've been doing it for a while. In the beginning, it was probably quite strategies and tactical.

Bob [00:03:21]:
You probably had to think about it quite a lot. And I'm wondering, how did that arise? And then how has it evolved?

Jasmine [00:03:29]:
Yeah, that's a fantastic question, because a lot of people don't know that I used to be a content creator, and I was creating TikToks for fun, and I built an audience on a personal page to around like 70 to 80,000 followers, where I was just creating content for my own personal amusement. And through that time, I had brands reaching out to me, business reaching out to me, asking me to help them with their content. And so content went from being very personal and fun and nondirectional to now I saw a business opportunity, and I started learning sales psychology, how to actually get people to move and buy and take action from a single piece of content. And yeah, when I started creating more of that, of course it wasn't and overnight thing, but through time of implementing the passion for it and the strategy together, it really evolved into a great mix of both and a great business opportunity.

Bob [00:04:28]:
What's interesting is creating content for fun, it can be kind of natural. It's self expression crossing that bridge into creating intentional content where you're looking for a very specific result, it's not necessarily actually that easy a pivot. A lot of people might think, well, she was easy on camera, she'd be doing it for a while. But moving that into sales and selling, it's not actually all that natural. So when you say you studied sales psychology and things like that, a lot of people in the content marketing space will tell you, TikTok is great for top of funnel. It's great for attention, but it's not a great place to sell. Well, I know that's bullshit, because I watch you do it every day.

Jasmine [00:05:13]:
Yeah.

Bob [00:05:14]:
So what goes into making that happen?

Jasmine [00:05:17]:
Yeah, it's so funny to me when people say that TikTok is not great for selling it's just something where you can put some information or brand awareness and build reach and visibility, and you'll sell to them later on in the funnel, maybe on Instagram, maybe some other getting them on your email list. Right. But as you've said, I have people who watch a single video of mine and then pay $10,000 to work with me. It's not something that a lot of people understand because they just see it from the wrong perspective. I think that the reason why I've been able to get those results is because I don't just make the assumption that you can't sell on TikTok. Like, if you already believe that, obviously your content is not going to do well. And it is so different. Creating for sales rather than for air quotes.

Jasmine [00:06:06]:
Creating for sales, but rather than creating for yourself. But I try to teach my clients and try to have the mind in myself that I'm not always focused on just leads. I'm also focused on shifting perspectives, impacting my audience. And I try to detach from the numbers as much as I can, because then you'll get caught up in your head and you'll overthink it and it'll be really unnatural. So it's a mix of both. And that's something I really help my clients with, too, is because when you're creating for your business, people get caught up in that end result. And so they forget to show their personality or have fun with it, or don't stick too much to the steps and also show yourself. So it's a delicate balance that you have to kind of walk between.

Bob [00:06:50]:
So when you're working with clients and they come in and they see, okay, Jasmine has a structure here. There is a process. One of the things I find again and again is you can give somebody a process, but they come up with all kinds of reasons why they can't execute on that. And I'm really interested to hear from you, and I have some assumptions about what I think some of the answers are. But what are the most common points of resistance that you meet in implementing what you know is a process that will work?

Jasmine [00:07:23]:
Yeah, that's a really good question, too. I actually have set up my standards, so I work with clients that don't have that assumption as much as I can, because sometimes those are people who think that their business is special, and they're special and they're in a unique spot, and these things don't help them. And those people oftentimes can't be helped. And I'm not in the business of changing their mind about fundamental things that work. So it's a hard thing to change somebody's mind about that. But at its core level, a structure is going to help with almost anything in life. Whether you're trying to lose weight, eat healthier, any goal that you have, if you have the fundamental steps that are backed by some sort of science or science based approach, psychology, whatever it may be, the structure is going to help you and it's fundamental to everything. There's no business or situation that is exceptional to it or not included in that.

Jasmine [00:08:23]:
So I think just some people think that sometimes they think they're special and that these things don't work for them. But I try to give a structure so that way there's still room for their own business and voice and niche, and they just understand the theory and they can implement it in a way that makes sense for them.

Bob [00:08:37]:
So there are lots of people who sell content marketing training or advice, and I'd be interested to hear from you. You probably know where you differ and what is your perspective on that. What is the jasmine sauce?

Jasmine [00:08:54]:
I call it the jazz media framework, but I'm glad try to put my name in there. But that's actually an interesting question because I teach my clients to find what makes them different and leverage that a lot in their content. So it's like a nestled answer of what you ask me is also what I teach. Every person has a different style or approach, right? As entrepreneurs who are, like you said, monetizing our passion and expertise. It's just that like our own perspective on something. And so if you know how to highlight that unique perspective, it's going to really help. So my own is multifaceted in the ways that I'm different. I like to sometimes talk about how I have an engineering background and therefore the way that I teach and the way that I structure my content, I can really show like a direct cause and effect and have these steps that people can follow.

Jasmine [00:09:48]:
And I'm very analytical. Sometimes content marketing coaches can be super fluffy and they're like, just post a picture of your desk for a day and then the next day you're going to post a picture or video of you talking to the camera and it's like, I don't understand the why. What am I doing? What am I supposed to say? How is that going to help me? And so I like to go into that level of depth and I think the other way that I really brand out is I'm really great at helping people see what makes them different and how to use their own voice and personality. Whereas I think a lot of people think that a strategy will remove it. I help them highlight it and augment their voice and their unique approach and their personal brand. So it's a mix of, again, the strategy part, but also highlighting their unique voice. And I think I really excel in that area.

Bob [00:10:40]:
So niching, or niching is an area where it often triggers fear. And this old saying is, if you're not for somebody, you're for nobody, or if you're for everybody, you're for nobody. And theoretically that makes perfect sense. The practical application of that is, well, if I'm really going to lean in hard for this one person, what about all these other people? They might hire me. And I know that niching, I don't know the jazz media framework, but I can only imagine that it sits there at the beginning. How do you help people through all the objections that they're going to have with niching?

Jasmine [00:11:19]:
Yeah, the quote you said is really very true, that if you're for everyone, you're for no one. And I do say that one of my first things when I talk to clients. So you nailed that right on the head. It's kind of like if you were looking for somebody. I like to use fitness examples because I think a lot of people can relate to eating and exercising and it's pretty basic. But if you were trying to lose weight and you had a coach that was a fitness trainer for everyone, helps everyone lose weight, and then you have someone who helps, let's say, for instance, women like me that are in their twenty s and thirty s that used to have sports backgrounds, and now they're trying to find a way to keep up with that level of activity. With a desk job or their entrepreneur lifestyle, I'm much more likely to go to the person that deeply understands my situation, my background, my needs, rather than the general fitness coaching. So when people think when they're more general, they'll get more clients, it's the opposite, because nobody will know if you're for them and so then nobody will buy from you.

Jasmine [00:12:23]:
So you're actually losing out from not niching down. I think some people, they don't even know maybe who the best person is that they want to serve, who their ideal and dream client really is. And so they don't niche effectively or with much direction. And so then it doesn't feel like it's serving them. But when you can niche in a way where you can really hone in on your best people that you really want to work with, then it feels good and it doesn't feel as debilitating or limiting.

Bob [00:12:53]:
So thinking about business from an engineering perspective, there are many more levers that you can pull. There's the attraction lever, which is great. This is really where we're talking about content, content marketing, but we also have a pricing lever which can be a significant one. And if we've got the content marketing right, well, let's say you could have ten leads a week, but if what you're selling is worth $10, or if you're selling something at $10, that's not enough, you're going to starve. But if you're selling something at $10,000.10 leads a week is golden again. People have all kinds of hang ups around pricing, and I'm curious to know how you operate around the pricing question. Is that a common place to play?

Jasmine [00:13:41]:
Yeah. There are so many factors like levers within pricing as well that you can play around with. You have to consider, are you serving beginners in your industry, more experienced people? Do you believe what you're offering is valued at? If I believe I was actually just talking to a client about this this morning, she was selling something that she believes is worth hundreds of dollars for $30 because she doesn't want to put people out. And I'm like, you need to charge what you believe your products and offers are worth, or else you either build resentment from your audience, you don't feel confident in posting about it or selling it because it's not aligned with the price that you think it's worth. People don't even value it the way that it's supposed to be because they see it as a $30 product. So there's that. There's what you believe it should be charged. There's the level it is in your product suite, right.

Jasmine [00:14:37]:
You have a low, mid and high ticket offer, typically not everyone. And so do you consider how to price that effectively? A lot of times I recommend that your lower ticket offer is a piece of the pie. It's not just a cheaper version of the high ticket thing. And as you move through, it becomes more holistic to the entire goal. So there's so many things that you can play around with. And I do agree with you that if you don't have the visibility and the reach, then selling just the cheap, not cheap, but low ticket product, you're not going to get the volume to sustain your business. And so that's why I recommend having a more holistic product suite. So if, for instance, you start getting more reach, and you go viral with an activating piece of content for your low ticket offer, and you can fill that up one month.

Jasmine [00:15:22]:
That's great. And you don't have to just rely on just one form of higher low ticket sales.

Bob [00:15:27]:
What I love about that is if you optimise the audience side, then you can optimise the price side. But if you don't optimise the audience side, the price is always going to be a problem. It kind of brings me to another question, which is a lot of people are very timid when it comes to being seen to sell. And in your content, you're really overt. This is who I am. This is what I do, this is who it's for. And I sell this, you can buy it. And it's like, if I were to walk down the street and somebody was selling some kind of magic puppet and they were just doing a puppet show, that's an awesome puppet, I'd be gone if somebody says, hey, do you want to buy a puppet? You know what? Yeah, take my money.

Bob [00:16:08]:
That's how most people approach their content. It's a puppet show, but you don't know you can buy it.

Jasmine [00:16:12]:
Yeah. Especially TikTok.

Bob [00:16:15]:
Yeah. Because where I'm going with this is, I think a lot of people feel a little bit gross when they talk about, hey, buy my stuff. And the only people typically that don't feel gross about that are often what we might class the bro marketers. And you offer a lovely antidote to that, which is very effective. And I think that's why I'm always looking for role models for people online. And I think the way that you sell online, everybody should go and watch the jazz media TikTok. It's a masterclass in how to sell authentically, proactively, but gently. It's really nice.

Jasmine [00:16:59]:
I appreciate that.

Bob [00:17:00]:
That's not a question, though. How do you help people feel more comfortable in themselves with Sally?

Jasmine [00:17:08]:
Yeah. No, that's a really common problem, is people feel so icky about showing that they have something that they want to help people, and they don't want people to feel like they're creating for the wrong reason, and so they try to give as much away for free and then hope somebody will buy. And that's usually the reverse of what you should do, because in that puppet show analogy, if somebody was showcasing that, they have a free puppet, and you walk over and they're like, actually, you have to buy a set of three for $30. If you want one, you'd be like, well, I didn't come here for that. You conditioned me to want the free thing. So priming your audience to be an authority figure that's worth value and worth payments and worth a sale, rather than giving free information, hoping they'll pay you down the line when you didn't prime them to do so, is reverse logic. And the deeper thing is the ickiness around sales in general. A lot of people have to heal their relationship with asking for money, and it's either a lack of self worth or fear that they're overcharging or whatever.

Jasmine [00:18:11]:
And I have to actively work through that with them because there are people with one 10th of the talent making ten times as much money because they're not afraid to ask for it.

Bob [00:18:20]:
I think this is where coaching can become really productive. I used to work around snow sports quite a lot, and I know you come from a sports background, and there's this old saying of hard work beats talent, where talent doesn't work. And this is a wonderful opportunity for everybody listening, because this is entirely learnable, this is teachable, this is not athletics. You don't need to be super fit. You just need a process framework, a little bit of confidence, and everybody has value to bring to the world. It's just aligning that value with the person who needs it. That's the hard part. And that's where places like TikTok allow us the opportunity to do that.

Bob [00:18:59]:
Yeah, I'm interested to hear from you on that journey, and obviously you're doing well. But let's be honest, you have a lot of road ahead of you still. What has been the hardest thing about getting to where you are now, and what do you see ahead? Where do you want to go with it?

Jasmine [00:19:20]:
Yeah, I kind of want to go back to that last point that you said about the learning of talent versus skill and hard work. I kind of like to equate it to IQ versus EQ, like having an intellectual quotient versus an emotional one. IQ, you're usually given it upon birth, and it can't be changed. And that's not how I see business or content or marketing, any of that. Just like you said, it's not talent or genetic. Some people don't just have it, and some people don't just don't. It's more like EQ, where it could be learned. Emotional intelligence can be nurtured, learned, gone through experience and given feedback and refined.

Jasmine [00:20:02]:
And I think sometimes people just assume some people are just great on camera, but people don't see five years ago when I was filming Instagram stories for my fitness coaching business that didn't go anywhere and I looked so unconfident and I was barely scaling anything. They just like to see the current outcome. A lot of people don't see all of the struggles in various areas, so it absolutely can be sharpened and learned, even if you feel like you don't have any place to start or any experience. In terms of your other question about the road ahead, this past year has really been my first year in this business. I've tried others before and the biggest thing that I've learned this past year is that business is really hard. People like to say making money online is easy and you can build passive income and it's so great because they're trying to sell you something, but that's not the truth. And I really try to be honest and transparent about it. I don't want to work with somebody who thinks it's easy because they're not going to put in the results to actually get to a sustainable spot and build a strong business.

Jasmine [00:21:04]:
So I'd say that building a business has been the hardest thing I've ever done. And coming from a background of playing high level sports and being at the top of my class in school, I've been through hard things being a first generation american, but this is by far the hardest. And I think the road ahead is adapting as I grow. So I've been focusing on content only and now I'm becoming more of a business mentor using my experience and I want to write a book one day, have my own podcast, and I think expand into other forms of media and influence. So I'm excited to take more of a mentorship role and see how my personal brand grows because I think a lot of people feel like as a personal brand, you have to stick to the thing that you did, the niche that you were before. But I like to allow myself to keep growing.

Bob [00:21:51]:
I think one of my mentors said to me is the personal brand is the last pivot you'll ever need to make. And I absolutely love that your audience will come with you. The people who love you for what you're doing now will love you for what you do next. And your audience evolve as well. They're not static or fixed.

Jasmine [00:22:07]:
Exactly.

Bob [00:22:08]:
So what I love about people like you being new into the online business world, and honestly, I consider myself fairly new into it, is you approach it quite disruptively. And I mean that in the nicest way.

Jasmine [00:22:27]:
I take that as a compliment.

Bob [00:22:29]:
Well, and I'm interested to hear if you were talking to me, and I was, let's pretend it's me and saying, well, maybe if I'm making it me, it's awkward. Okay, make it me. Pretend we're not recording. And I had called you up and said, jazz, what should I be doing different? I know that's a really difficult question, but let's just pretend I'm in the entire older generation. What might the answer be?

Jasmine [00:22:57]:
I actually was talking to a potential client when I first was starting my business, who had just retired, and he wanted to start on TikTok. The first thing he told me was, do I have to be super loud and intense on camera? That's what all, everything I see on TikTok, everybody is loud and energetic in the camera. I'm a very quiet person. I like to golf, I like to chill. Do I have to change my personality? And so what I would say is, I think a lot of the older generation sees a particular personality on social media, and they think they need to adapt to that. But I encourage you to lean into your own being and way of being. You don't need to change yourself. Change how you show up for a particular platform.

Jasmine [00:23:41]:
Your own way of being engaging and exciting is perfect as it is. So that's the first thing. The other thing is, I think the older generation sometimes assumes that there aren't people with money on TikTok. It's a dancing app for kids, and people are not spending money on there. Right. I get that all the time, especially people in my personal life. Like, I'm so in a vacuum with online business. I assume we're all there.

Jasmine [00:24:03]:
We all get it. We know TikTok is a place to sell and grow a business. My friends and family, even younger ones, they have no idea what's going in. We're in a bubble in some ways. So I would just reiterate that almost every social media platform, there is money to be made, there is business to be built, and it's about seeing it for the potential that it could be showing up as yourself and not seeing social media as a potential negative stigma that some of the older generation has towards it and the positive ways that it can change your life and your business.

Bob [00:24:36]:
And I think a similar question would be being a younger person. So take somebody like me. Everybody in my world knows that I'm a business owner, and most people I know are business owners. So when I start rocking up online talking about business, it's normal. It's natural. Nobody's surprised. Whereas being a younger person, your friend circle, for example, the people who know you, they're not from that world a lot of the time.

Jasmine [00:25:06]:
Yeah.

Bob [00:25:07]:
And I think from a confidence perspective, younger people often find it harder to show up as a new version of themselves online, as a version that wants to be taken seriously, rather than a version that wants to party and have fun, for example. How do you help people through that? And how has that been for you?

Jasmine [00:25:28]:
Yeah, that's a powerful idea, because I think that as we grow older, people get more used to the idea of, like, I am who I am, take it or leave it. But a lot of younger people struggle with that, right? They still want to be liked and perceived in a certain way. Not to say that that's a hard and fast rule, but that's what I've seen and so agree with that sentiment. I think a lot of people, especially in my generation, and the younger one, have used social media to be liked, right? Whereas the older one hasn't. That wasn't something that they used to build social relationships. So we're so used to posting on Instagram and TikTok for being popular, for getting recognition, for blending in, right, for making friends. And this question hits close to home, because I remember when I was in high school and I started using social media to build a business, I started doing fitness content, and I got made fun of so much from people in my school because that wasn't what social media was used for. Like, what are you doing? That's embarrassing.

Jasmine [00:26:36]:
I like to tell people who are in that scenario who have used their social media just for a certain point from now on, but they want to kind of have a new identity, is to block or remove any followers from your life, any friends, any family. You need to start a new account. Maybe it needs to not even be your full name so people don't find it, and you need to create from the new person that you want to be. Because I'm a big Joe dispenza fan, and he says, your environment, if you stay in the same one, you're going to be the same person. And so you have to rid that environment and those people as much as you can, so you can be the new identity that you want to be and not feel tied to the old one.

Bob [00:27:14]:
I did that, too. Full disclosure for my listener. Probably until I was 45, nobody outside my city knew who I was. And in order for me to go online, I had to fire my entire team. I had to stop going to every networking event, and I had to completely cut myself off in order to, like, you said allow a new identity to emerge because we're so embedded in. People hold a mirror up to us and it's really quite shocking how much of our own identity is projected to us from the outside. Yeah, that was the biggest thing. It was so hard.

Jasmine [00:27:51]:
That's amazing that you were able to pull yourself away from those things, even in your everyday life. That's a hard thing to do. And I think the benefit is, my last couple of years that I've been doing my business and all that good stuff, I've been moving around a lot. And so now that we live in Florida, I don't really have family around here and I've been able to take on a new identity and not have to worry about any past habits or routines. And we were digital nomads at a certain point, my husband and I, and travelling full time, so that helped as well. And I think the important thing too is I've married someone that allows me to change and grow and sees new things and encourages growth. And I think as long as you have that in your home, you can pull away from the rest of the things and change as you need to, because you have that space to do so.

Bob [00:28:42]:
I think as well, coming from a fitness background, I remember I used to do a lot of stuff and when I started to understand that fitness is very fluid, you might not have it, but with a little bit of work, fitness can improve very, very quickly. When you realise that same process comes to confidence, that same process comes to ambition, that same process comes to relationships, it opens up an awful lot of possibility. On the topic of relationships, I think that's a natural. Next place to go is as entrepreneurs, it can be quite lonely. And you'll have heard this saying that your income rises to the level of the five people you spend most time with. And I don't like that. That's where people often go first with it. But what I've realised is it's true of a lot of other things as well.

Bob [00:29:33]:
And the people that you surround yourself with have a direct impact on a lot of aspects of your mindset. And who's provided that for you? Because I can't imagine you've done this entirely in isolation. We see business owners a lot of the time as individual independent units, but what we don't see a lot of the time is the interconnectedness.

Jasmine [00:29:54]:
Yeah, that's a good point, because growing up with the immigrant parents kind of home, I actually had parents that they worked really freaking hard and they made decent money, but it didn't come without sacrificing a lot. And that's what I knew and was used to. And my parents spent it all on my brother and I to give us a better life than they had in the Middle east, right? And so that's what I was used to. And so I had that kind of approach to money and view on money until when I started my business, I was like, I need to invest in mentorship because the money habits or views that I have right now are not serving me 100%. And so I put myself in a room with other entrepreneurs that were making ten, 5100 thousand dollars months. And when it became possible, because I was in the room with them, I saw what they were thinking about, what they were experiencing, that they were honestly no different than me. They were just at step five and I was at step one. That's where it all began to change.

Jasmine [00:30:53]:
I started reading books about your view on money. The one everybody reads is rich dad, poor dad. You are a bad asset. Making money by Jen Sincero. All of those good ones that help you see that you deserve the amount of money that you want to make. You don't have to work harder than you already are in the sense that you don't have to sacrifice as much as my parents did, maybe. And it just challenged a lot of the things that I believed and it really helped me see the potential in what I could do.

Bob [00:31:21]:
On the topic of money, one of the posts that I saw on TikTok that really kicked me in the teeth was something along the lines of your prospects. Finances are none of your business.

Jasmine [00:31:34]:
Yeah.

Bob [00:31:35]:
And I thought, I do this all the time. Somebody's on the call with me, I get their backstory, and I think I need to adjust the price, which is really interesting. I mean, don't get me wrong, I do all right, but I'm really soft. And honestly, I think that's okay. But I think you can only really, where am I going with this?

Jasmine [00:31:58]:
I have a question for you, actually.

Bob [00:31:59]:
Yeah, go for it.

Jasmine [00:32:01]:
Do you ask them for their backstory often, or do they end up sharing it? And what parts of their backstory make you assume certain things about their financial situation?

Bob [00:32:10]:
I probably shouldn't answer that question in detail, but it's just part of my. I'm going to call it discovery process. But it's not really a discovery process. It's just a chat. But people tell me stuff. And before anybody finds out what working with me is going to look like, we know each other quite well. That's just how I wrote my clients tend to work with me minimum of a year, so I police the gate quite carefully. But yeah, I have clients at all different points of the price spectrum, and across the board it all balances out.

Bob [00:32:47]:
But what it did make me think when I saw that post from you is what's really interesting is if we've got the lead generation just right and the content is all channelling people effectively, because my own lead flow, so to speak, it's a trickle, but it's a perfect trickle, it's just fine. But if that was a flood, I'd make different decisions. And this is really what got me thinking, is these different levers, but that's a lever I would probably normally neglect. And I think a lot of people are guilty of thinking I need something for people who can't afford the premium product, and you're second guessing yourself all the time, and there's no need for it if we have everything nicely optimised.

Jasmine [00:33:34]:
Yeah, I think some people assume that they can charge the amount that they want when they make a certain amount, have a certain amount of leads, have a certain amount of followers, are seen by an authority figure, by some invisible phantom metric, whatever it is. I actually had this conversation this morning too, because it is so big. But I say it's the opposite. I say that you become an authority figure and you make the money that you want. When you assume those things, charge what you want, hold your standard, set boundaries, don't assume what somebody can't afford and cannot, don't bend for people, even if you only have one lead a week. When you start thinking that way and you hold yourself that way, it shows in your client interactions, it shows in your content, and people assume that the inverse is true. But I argue that all the time, because there's no amount you'll be chasing an invisible or moving goalpost. If you keep thinking when this thing happens, then I'll feel comfortable and I'll charge what I want and not worry about people's money.

Jasmine [00:34:37]:
But you have to do that now before the external environment changes.

Bob [00:34:41]:
You're absolutely right. I think one of the things that, I guess that there is a danger point here, which is I personally would never want anybody to go into debt to work for me, work with me, and I want to be very sure that that's not happening. And as part of your sales process, I guess you have to be quite careful that you're not taking somebody in that direction without really knowing it. I don't know if it's maybe just a moral question for me.

Jasmine [00:35:09]:
Yeah, it's an interesting moral debate. I've seen some very unethical things where some coaches will poke and prod on, why can't you afford this? Is there anything you can change to be able to afford this? Why don't you take out a loan? I've seen some insane things. I do not agree with any of that. But what I do do is I keep the financial situation, my client's decision, because that's what I think is the most ethical. Not me worrying about their debt or their situation. This is the price. If it doesn't work for you, that's okay. And that's where I leave it, because I do believe if you go too far into that conversation, you can influence it in a negative way or go down an unethical path.

Bob [00:35:55]:
I think what I like about a lot of the things that you describe, coming from an engineering background, variables are fixed and the sales variable is fixed. The price variable is fixed so that you have a machine, you can predict what's coming out the other end. If you're constantly fiddling with all the variables, the machine is unpredictable. And I think for me, this is the big lesson. I pride myself on being very flexible, but I think a lot of us could do with some constraints, fix the price, fix the product, fix the audience, and then the question is, how much energy are you putting into the machine?

Jasmine [00:36:37]:
Yeah, I was going to say that, too. If you have all variables that are not fixed, you expend a lot of energy in adapting rather than having something set and expending your energy into more useful places. So not only does it help for predictability, but also for efficiency perspective. I also believe fairness as well. I don't believe maybe if somebody told me I can't do it right now and somebody told me I'm willing to invest, that I should bend the rules for somebody who told me that they need the extra things because maybe the other person was just afraid to ask and they're willing to make it work either way, and maybe they both have the same financial situation that they could afford it. So I try to see it from the perspective of, like, it's not my business, it's not my chair, I won't sit in it, and I will never urge you to go into debt. I will never push you to pay a certain thing. I will never ask you about your financial situation.

Jasmine [00:37:33]:
I will always support you talking to your partner, but I leave that for their responsibility and their business and not mine. And I keep things standard for efficiency and predictability perspective.

Bob [00:37:43]:
I have had a great time tonight. I would love to have you back again another time, but I'm aware of the time and I don't want to abuse your goodwill. I am very grateful for the time. And yeah, I learned a lot. I need to ask you the question I ask everybody, and I nearly forgot again. What's one thing you do now? You wish it started five years ago.

Jasmine [00:38:08]:
I think the biggest thing that I wish I did earlier in my life, not only for business, but all aspects, was not people pleasing. It's so easy as a personal brand, too, for that to really affect your growth. When I first started my business, I remember going back and forth with a non ideal client for months over email because they were asking for certain things that I don't do, and I was considering doing them just to make them happy, asking for certain services, certain ways of paying, certain things that I've never even debated doing. And I was just trying to entertain it from a people pleasing perspective so many times that I compromise in areas that I shouldn't have and being able to set like we've been talking about, honestly set my standards and my boundaries and be true to myself and not worry about ruffling feathers like I do in my content and speaking with conviction. I wish I had started that from a long time ago. I think I grew up again. It's like a first generation mentality. You want to make your parents happy.

Jasmine [00:39:12]:
You want to make others happy. You feel a little bit guilty that you're given a gift that other people that you know from your family are not given, and they're in more situations, and so you want to feel and please others. But I've learned that this is the best situation for me and others when I don't please them. And I am myself, and that's the biggest thing I wish I could have done from birth. Honestly.

Bob [00:39:32]:
It's a really good answer. Thank you, Jasmine from Jazz media. Thank you so much. If people want to find out this witchcraft that's going on in TikTok, where can they find it?

Jasmine [00:39:42]:
Yeah, my socials are Jazz Media, LLC on Instagram and TikTok, and that's where you can find me and my content. And my full name is jazz. So, August, if you look me up, and I look forward to connecting with anyone who reaches out.

Bob [00:39:57]:
Well, thank you very much. And that does bring us to the end of another episode. Thanks for listening. And if you did enjoy the show, I would welcome you to leave five. That's five star reviews wherever you listen to podcasts. If you did enjoy the show. You will love the personal brand business roadmap. It's 50 pages of everything you need to start, scale or fix your expert business.

Bob [00:40:18]:
Just visit amplifyme agency roadmap or tap the link in the show notes. Jazz awesome. Thank you very much and see you all next week.

Jasmine [00:40:29]:
Thank you for having.

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