Content marketing is a ton of work. Making it work and being consistent is really hard and the secret to unlocking it sustainably is repurposing. Natalie Hailey runs content & repurposing agency ‘Hot Content’. In this episode she shares her journey and what makes her business work.
About Natalie : Natalie works with business owners and entrepreneurs all over the world who podcast or produce video to MAKE THEIR CONTENT HAPPEN! Taking the initial piece of content she takes the pressure off content creators, handling the entire publishing, promotion and repurposing process to help them produce top quality content consistently and grow their audience.
Links and mentions
Natalie's website : https://www.hotcontent.co.uk/
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Hi there. Welcome back to gravity, the digital marketing entrepreneurs podcast. I'm Bob Gentle. And every week I'm joined by creators, consultants and practitioners who share what makes their business work. Whether you run your own business, or you're just thinking of stepping on your own for the first time, you're in the right place. If you're new to the podcast, and welcome along, just take a second right now to subscribe to the show and your podcast player. That way you don't miss new weekly episodes, and you can take it to some older ones when you finish this one.
Content Marketing is a ton of work, making it work and being consistent is really hard. And the secret to unlocking it sustainably is repurposing. Natalie Haley runs content and repurposing agency content. And this episode, she shares her journey and what makes her business work. So welcome along and let's meet Natalie
Next week, I'm joined by Natalie Haley from hot content. Natalie, do you want to start by introducing yourself who you are, where you are? And the kind of work you do? Yeah, absolutely. And so yeah, as you say, I have a business called hot content. I'm based in Cumbria, which is just on the edge of the Lake District. And it's a very beautiful but very wet, and I run my business from home, I'm lucky to have virtual team and I am able to be based from home which I absolutely love. And mainly I focus on helping other businesses and other entrepreneurs actually produce, promote and repurpose that content. So I tend to work with either youtubers podcasters, or people who produce a regular blog. And so for a YouTuber For example, I will take
edited video and physically upload it to YouTube publish it onto YouTube optimize it and then repurpose it into a blog post for their website and into various other things such as their broadcast to their email subscribers and a similar thing for podcast as well as you know yourself produce it a publishing a podcast weekly or fortnightly is very time intensive. And so it's really just letting content creators do that part focus on what they doing best doing the interviews for the podcast, recording the videos, and then me taking over from that point and getting it out there to be seen by as many people as possible. I think that that pretty much sums it up really. And what proportion of your your customers would be content creator types as opposed to traditional businesses that we may sort of most work with? Yeah, I would say thinking about it.
Probably about 5050. So I would say 50% of the clients of my clients are running businesses. And they are creating, you know, probably traditional, you know, traditional businesses and creating blog content or a podcast alongside that, and then probably the other 50% or more personal brands. So they may be, you know, they may speak internationally and have a YouTube channel which helps them then get more speaking gigs. And that kind of thing. So yeah, that that other 50% they're more focused on the personal brand, and they're producing their content that blogger podcaster video to actually further establish that that personal brand to help them do whatever it is they want to do, like say whether it's getting more speaking gigs or whether it's sell more books, basically. So, yeah, it's it's quite varied, but it's probably a 5050 split really at the moment. And obviously, that's a very specific slice of the digital marketing space that you occupy their content.
repurposing, you're basically taking all the creators generated and making it work for them. Obviously, that is taking you and you've been on a journey to get to that particular slice. What did that journey look like? Yeah, it's, um, well, I think like when you ask most people, they often say that they haven't quite ended up where they thought got hurt. And actually, it's really true that, you know, your, your audience kind of dictates where your business goes, not the other way around, actually. And when I first started this business a couple of years ago, I had envisaged that I would be involved more in the creation side of the content and really the focus was more on blog content, and actually helping and physically creating businesses blogs from scratch.
And I wouldn't say I kind of stumbled into what I'm doing now, but I was given the opportunity and bicycle
Your current clients to help them with their YouTube videos and it's actually mutual friends of ours and repeat and they sort of said they were looking for somebody who had the copywriting skills and could help with the content creation side of things but also do the more kind of technical side of things like the YouTube optimization and physically uploading
to YouTube and physically working on the the backend their website uploading the blog and formatting and everything and so I started doing that kind of work for them and sort of realized that it was kind of a bit of a niche really just say it's fairly easy to find people who still easy to find copywriters and it's fairly easy to find people who are working on the more you know, techie side of things, but you don't often get the two combined. So it kind of made me think, you know, if I can do it for clients like like them, there must be so many other people out there who need
A similar service. And from there, I kind of put some packages together. So packages for youtubers packages for
podcasters and for bloggers. And at that point in my business, that was when it all changed, really. And I think before then, you know, I was sort of sporadically helping businesses with blog sporadically. And, you know, you doing copywriting what here and there. But it was only when I put packages together and got really clear in my mind about the kind of people I could help and what I had to offer. That was when everything turned around for me really. But it's not. It's not always easy to get to that point. As you know yourself. There is often a period of time where you're, you think you want to do something but you go down a particular path.
And either something happens or you make the decision that you've got to make something, make it the big change. You've got to pivot. And for me, yeah, it just happened to be I was given that opportunity and it
Show me that there was a real opportunity there. So when you said that, that's when things turned around for you. Often when we're discussing a pivot is not a turning around is more of a an adjustment. When that happened for you, where you were at the point where you actually weren't very happy with the way things work.
Yeah, and I think
everybody goes through it. But we all have those times where we think of those really low points, we just think, is this all worth it? You know, genuinely Am I ever going to get anywhere my advocate really start, you know, making a real business out of this? Should I just go and get a proper job? And I've had so many of those periods of time. And yeah, I think
that was the turning point for me. And obviously, I still have those moments. You still have those moments of doubt and you still have to, you know, the down days but
And for the most part, you know, since since that sort of pivot or adjustment, as you say, and I haven't had as many of those, which is, which is fantastic. Yeah, it's very, very liberating when you actually hit this sweet spot of one to enjoy doing. What's really aligned with your
vocation is such an overused word. But your own personal sense of mission when it's fun, when it makes money, when you feel this is actually a journey I'm enjoying, rather than a journey. That's hard work. And it's such a cliche and people talk all the time about finding a niche and owning a niche and
before you found it, so frustrating to hear because, you know, it's true, and everyone says it, but until you found it, you're like, well, what am I supposed to do just you know, pick something and you know, it isn't easy getting to that point. And for a lot of people, I guess they don't ever get to that point, but
When you do it is true what they say that things start slotting into place and it becomes easier to do everything it becomes easier to sell yourself because you know exactly what it is you're offering. And you know exactly where your strengths are and how you can help people becomes easier to create content because you know exactly who you're talking to and what they need from you. And you know, even things like creating you know, lead magnets and you know, what we offer to an exchange for somebody to email ebooks or, or whatever else or downloads or checklists, even that becomes so much easier because, you know, you can pinpoint exactly what your audience needs from you what little problem that they have, what quick when you can offer them with a, you know, a checklist or whatever else, things like that becomes so much easier. And, and your confidence builds as well because, and that's sort of a lot of the self doubt and questioning disappears, because
You much firmer on, Say what? who you are and what you can offer. So you can be much more confident when you're, you know, selling and marketing yourself. So it it is yeah, as I say it's frustrating until you found it, but it is true that when you do everything just starts falling into place Really?
Yeah, I have to agree. I mean, I put off nourishing for a long, long time when it happened and I would say happened rather than I planned it. The sense of freedom, clarity that you get from that
a lot of it is I think they're really resist that punishing because they're saying no to so many people
not realizing how much more effective everything else suddenly becomes. Teachers definitely and I think what you know, in this this industry in this space, everyone's doing something very similar, but we are all different somehow. And you know, like you say, it is the
liberating when you work out what that differences and how you how you can stand out from other people, and you know, and it just helps everybody else is what makes it. The other thing is it really makes it a lot easier for people to refer business to you as well. Once they understand exactly where you sit, and it's a, it's a momentum, it's a snowball effect, because you then start getting more business, I think through referral, because people are just much clearer on how you can help them and how you can help their clients or, or the people that they're trying to help. So, yeah, it's, it's got many, many benefits. One of the things with your ideal customer now, which is the content creators, it's actually people think the internet is a very big place, but in terms of the Creator space, it's actually quite a tight knit community.
And I'd be interested to know from you
what your marketing
No, it looks like in order to reach your ideal customer,
could you paint that picture for me a little bit? Yeah, so mainly, was a few things really, I would say,
the podcast and so I started the podcast. Well, the next episode which comes out and cheese will be answered for nothing. And I could be wrong on that. And so I started that early last year 2019 and that has become my main form of content. Well, it's really my only form of content creation now.
I target that the kind of guests that I get on the sort of advanced content, new advanced content creators who are giving away sort of their their one hot thing there, one, you know, big hack that they use to kind of grow their business. And so I think because the content strategy
is slightly more advanced. Hopefully that's attracting people who are really serious about creating content and quite dedicated about producing content on a regular basis. And they are the kind of people that I'm interested in, because there's no point working with a client who hasn't yet grasped the concept of, you know, regular content, production and the importance of that. It's really hard work, when you have to, you know, still convince somebody that that's important. So, I'm only really interested in working with people who already get that and who already understand how important that is. And that kind of person would be interested in listening to my podcast because it's all about that kind of thing. And I guess that's, that's the first thing it was thinking about. What's the best medium for me, I did have a blog, but to be quite honest with you. I just didn't enjoy it. I just didn't enjoy putting it out there and I would it would handle me and I would dread it whereas
podcast Never thought I'd have a podcast but I absolutely love it is the best thing I've ever done. Even if I didn't have the business, I probably still do.
Yeah, right there with you. surprisingly fun.
I love the people you get to chat to and I love the whole process. I love the whole process. And I think that as well is what helped me work out how I could help other people because I've done the whole setting up my own podcast and producing that on a used to be weekly. It's not for an hourly basis. So how much time went into that and every tiny detail is involved and actually really enjoyed it. So again, that's been great for my business just from that that point of view. And but yeah, in terms of my marketing, the other thing was I kind of thought that my social media channels so again, I went down the classic road and made the mistake of trying to be everywhere
and, and actually kind of made a bit of a shift. I wasn't on Instagram until
Probably not even a year ago. And now actually, that's where I do most of my, that's where I am, I put a lot of personal stuff on there. And I use it very much from a personal life as well. But I use it just as much for, you know, for the business side of things. So that's where we tend to promote the podcast most heavily. That's where I tend to,
you know, talk about the business most I do have a presence on the other channels, but I don't know Instagram just seems to be for me where my ideal clients are present. And they tend to be managing their own accounts on Instagram, whereas I'm never sure whether because of the sort of the caliber level of claim that I'm dealing with whether they necessarily manage their own Twitter or Facebook account, but I do know that they are the ones that are on a daily basis on Instagram. And so it's, it's thinking about that, but again, I didn't know before when I was on all of the channels. I didn't really know who my clients were and
In the early days, I had this lovely notion of kind of working with women and women in business women who, you know, was juggling home and family work life, which is, you know, my situation, and, and had this lovely, you know, this lovely dream of just helping helping women. But in reality, the kind of women and businesses that I was targeting, they needed the support and the help, but unfortunately, they didn't have the budget to work with someone like myself, which, you know, sounds, it sounds brutal, but the end of the day, you know, we all have to make money and work with businesses at the end of the day, so I had to really rethink that strategy. And so, so yeah, again, not only sort of finding your niche and what you offer, but working out who your client is, that means you can work out where they are. So for me think that the two biggest elements of my marketing other podcast and then promoted
podcast on Instagram talking about my business on Instagram, but it's just as important for me I think to reveal my life behind the scenes which I do quite a lot on Instagram. I love Instagram Stories now. And you know, I'll document things such like we've been renovating a house. And so I've documented quite a lot of that on Instagram stories and I think it just gives people an insight into who you are outside of work hours and gives people an idea of your personality and you get to know people and and it is true because people want to work with people. So you know, I think it's Instagram is a great platform for that. And I have to say I love your new kitchen.
See if it wasn't for Instagram, you'd never know. Although I did post it on Facebook as well. But thank you young very I'm a very, very happy lady to
know I grew up
On a building site, my father built his own house. So I know how you feel. Yes, just a long, long process, you don't appreciate how long it takes know, there's still so much to do. But this, this has been a big milestone, it's made a huge difference already. So the rest of it, yes, well, there's still a lot to do. It feels much more manageable now.
And that kind of neatly, brings me to another question which I would always ask anybody who's involved in the content space
really boils down to, how do you manage your time because content is probably the most time hungry piece of the marketing mix. It's so easy
to get lost on rabbit holes with content, we have a process that you typically work rigidly to, or is it a time management process or think I've gotten to quite a good routine now. So
in terms of my own content,
I, I do most of the podcasts while I obviously do the interviews myself and I do most of the publishing and promoting it myself, I do outsource a little bit of that. And so the bit that I do, I tend to try and have I'm only doing my fortnightly now, still, obviously quite a chunk of time, but it has taken the pressure off slightly, but I try and set aside a day to just focus on on that basically, and try and really do that justice. And then in terms of client work, I do try and have a set day a week for each client, because they attend they tend to be producing
content on a weekly basis. So they'll have a set day when they YouTube video is published or when their podcast goes out. So that's quite good for me because it means that I can then work backwards from that and say, Well, you know, if their podcast or video goes out on the Thursday, I'm going to make sure that Tuesday is my set date. For example, to work on.
content. So for the most part, yeah, I've got into a good rhythm. But as you say, it's it's the biggest challenge for any.
Any business owner, particularly when you're working from home as well, there isn't been that same divide between, you know, home and work life. And for me, I tend to work around the children and their school drop offs and pickups. So I'm very lucky in a lot of senses that I don't have to put them in after school club, I don't have to rely on childcare. St. Obviously, that does limit me to quite a short working day. So I will often more often than not catch up in an evening. So, you know, we'll break off when they finish school and then when they've got to bed, I'll tend to catch up, just you know, working on the laptop on the sofa. Well, Steve's watching TV, which I actually don't mind, you know, it sounds. You know, I think to people who don't have their own business, they think that sounds pretty grim.
But I think when you do have your own business, you don't mind. Because you know, you're doing it for you and your family. So yeah, and I think it swings around the boats, there are trade offs all the way through running your own business. And you may go, you can go out and do the things you need to do during the day and pick up the evening. to trade off as you get a great business. That's all yours. Yes, exactly. And that flexibility, like you say, that freedom if you need to take the morning or for the afternoon off, or even the full day, as long as you know, you're happy to catch up with that evenings, you know, bit of time over the weekend, and I wouldn't I wouldn't have it any other way. But you know, it's I am a fairly I am a fairly self disciplined person generally. And but even you know, there's even even that, you know, like today I've had one of those days where I've not been particularly I've been doing stuff all day, but I don't think I've been particularly efficient. I've been flitting between
One thing and
it was like that too. And I have been able to quite just get stuck into anything. And it's been a bit frustrating. But, you know, we all have those days, I think it's as well sometimes that managing your expectations. I think I wake up every morning, I think, right. What we're going to treat achieve today and the bar is set so high. And I think I think it's just kind of accepting that we can be amazingly productive and efficient all day, every day.
But, yeah, I think I think just settling into some kind of routine and working out what works for you, because what works for me will be totally different to everybody else. We all have our, you know, our little ways and different things work different for different people. So I think it's just experimenting and, you know, listening to other people talk and listening to, you know, productivity podcasts and stuff like that and getting these little tips and, and just trying
Lots of different things until you find what works for you, I think.
So your clients? Now, I'm curious to know how they find you. Obviously, you have the podcast, so the content marketing is there. But, and this is a question I always ask every guest is to understand across the split of content marketing, outbound sales, activity and referral.
How does that work typically find you? I would say
I don't know exactly in percentages, but the vast majority of my clients have come through referral, and which is fantastic. And and then I would say the other chunk has come through people that I've got to know through online membership communities. And so for example, I'm part part of repeats atomic community and
I've been a number of other communities in the past. So I would say that's the other the other way, I can't think of a current client or a previous client, who hasn't been somebody that I've either met, or been referred to me or somebody that I've got to know, in a community. So it's quite interesting, really, when you think of it like that. I don't I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about that. But yeah, the answer is what I would have expected because of the nature of your clients. Yeah, that they tend to exist in a community. Yeah, I know, if you're part of that community, they'll find you. Whereas, yes, each service to vets? Yeah. That would, and it was across the world, then you would have to market in a very different way. Yes. In terms of the community, I know you were at social media marketing for world For example, and you go to other events and things like that, but I'm particularly interested to look at Social Media Marketing World and what happens over the
with that internationalization of your network has that internationalized your client base?
And yeah, whether or not as a direct result from that, it's hard to say. But I would say that probably 30% of my client base now is US based. And yeah, and yeah, I seem to be having more and more conversations where time zones
are an issue or not an issue, but something to get my head around. So it kind of shows. That's the way it's potentially going. And, yeah, when you go to conferences, it's not always easy to directly pinpoint, Oh, I got that client or that job because I went to that conference, but I think it's more about the relationship building. So for example, you know, I've got a couple of upcoming podcast guests that there is no way I would have got them on the podcast had I not been to that conference and talked to them
Yeah, and and then who knows where that might lead? So I think, yeah, it's it's a really important part of the, the building relationship process as it were. And I think just to be seen to be going to those types of events as well.
You know, things like I had some photographs taken by Laura Pearman when I was over there, and I thought well, it you know, I'm going so I'm going to make the absolute most of it, you know, this, this opportunity, and kind of really shout about it really. So, you know, things like that. I think it is a big part of it is about seem to be part in a big part of that and be there. And it was a an amazing experience. And quite overwhelming because it is it's huge. It's absolutely huge. But, you know, you just have the opportunity to talk to people that you would never, you know, any other conference really
I think it's about, you know, pushing yourself to make the most of that opportunity. And it isn't easy. And especially when you're an introvert, it's not easy to push yourself to go and talk to these people. But
if you can, it's so important to kind of push yourself and make the most of that opportunity. I'm interested to know, you're saying sort of 30% of your clients are us base now.
With the podcast being your main content marketing platform, is that reflected in your podcast audience from the stats you get?
I do not look. Well. I do look at my stats and vitamin A look a bit addicted to logging on every day and looking at podcast downloads. But interesting, that isn't one thing that I've looked at, and not enjoy their account on my particular platform. But I must look because it would be interesting to interesting to see what I do know is that my
my email list
It does show that quite a significant percentage of the people that are on my subscriber list and who interact with my emails are US based. So it'll be interesting to see that reflected in the podcast starts gonna have to have a look. Yeah. Yeah, much like you. I'm addicted to looking at the stats. Yeah. I have it on my home screen of my phone, which is one tap. And and yeah.
Obviously, your podcast is called one hot thing, and I really couldn't possibly have you on the podcast
and not ask you of all the guests that you've had. What themes do you feel? Or do you notice coming across? In the answer's
no. I would say it's repurposing. Which is quite good for me. This is kind of what I focus on. But yeah, and
by any stretch, they don't all focus on something related to that. But the general theme that seems to run through it is
How can we keep doing this consistently? And better?
And, and if I think back to, you know, previous episodes that they will be variations on that. And it's really I'm trying to be very, very specific with it. But ultimately, it's quite productivity, how can we be more efficient? How can we do more in less time? And I think it's a reflection of the fact that, you know, I'm talking to business owners and the people who are listening to it, tend to be business owners, and we are all responsible, pretty much part of what we outsource, and everything's down to us. So I think we all feel that pressure to do more and more, and we want to do more and more, but it's not always you know, it's about finding the time so it's how can we streamline those processes and be more be more efficient. So let's say that's one of the one of the main themes and I suppose the
Do the second main theme seems to be around video. And again, whether that's because I am focusing quite a lot on the YouTube side of things, you know, getting involved with that for the different clients, and whether that's affected who I choose to come on the podcast subconsciously. And, and therefore, that's, you know, genuinely what they're going to talk about. But I think video is definitely the other the other big thing that that people are sort of saying, Well, if you want to be more efficient, you want to be able to repurpose, and video is the best place to start because, you know from a video, you can then take the audio, you can then you know, repurpose it into a lot of different ways more than you can with a podcast or a blog, for example. So yeah, repurposing video would say two key things that stick out and also being a podcaster. It's an audio format.
Obviously, we're doing
This on video now because for very much the same reason that if we have the video we also have the audio.
changed your plans for your own content marketing from what you've
learned from those guests? Yeah, well, whether I will tweak things in the future near future, I'm not quite sure at the moment. I did actually experiment the end of last year with with that actually with recording my podcast interviews live on Facebook. And so that meant that Yeah, I did have the full the full video, which I then just stripped the audio from and put it on the podcast. But I think the problem with that, yeah, got some engagement. And yeah, it was, it wasn't really any extra effort, basically to do it this way.
But I don't think Facebook is where my audience are. So I think that was the problem with it. I think if you if it is that
would definitely be the way to go. But I think I think for me, that's probably why it didn't gain traction because people that that I'm kind of engaging with engaging with me necessarily on my Facebook page, it's let's say it's more Instagram.
But yeah, whether I decide to do something more video based but on Instagram, it's definitely something that I could think about and probably should start thinking about the near future. I'm curious to know. And again, this is a numbers question and don't feel you need to give me a specific answer. Obviously, specific answers are great, but in terms of before and after the pivot and working with this particular niche client. What kind of impact has that had on your, your revenue or profitability?
Well, it has, when would I say that I pivot truly occurred.
it you know, obviously happened over a couple of
months, but you know, I've been, I've known where I'm going and what I'm doing now for, I would say about about a year. And,
and in that time, my revenue has quadrupled. Genuinely it has. And not only that, but I've gone from unpredictable income to now having all of my clients on retainer, which has just made such a huge difference, because now I have that predictability. And I have that stability. And whereas before, it was very sporadic, and there was no predictability. So, so yeah, it's made a huge impact. And I think that is, it's the best way it's the only way really to measure you know, your business success really, isn't it by you know, the bottom line what actually, you know, how has it affected your revenue So, so yes, that the proof, the proof is in the pudding as it were. And but yeah, the
Getting people on retainer and actually where you can I think putting packages together, grouping services together into packages really, really helps your potential clients, you know, make that decision and work out what might work best for them. What are the worries I've always had with packages? And I know, it's very much like an issue that you should have set pricing. niche. These are the two things we're all told. Everybody says, Yeah, but not me.
With packages, again, if there's if somebody wants something that's not in the package,
or they're willing to spend much more you think, whether they're not going to connect with one of those packages. I'd be interested to hear from you.
What impact those packages had when you wrote them out.
What happened you were not expecting maybe.
Um, well, I think the most
how I did it was I don't so much have a page on my website where the package is are displayed as it were, but I have a services page on my website, which explains a little bit about what I offer. And then people can download the price guide which is essentially a brochure which lays out the different packages for video content creators podcasters bloggers. And as the main thing that surprised me was that people started downloading it
didn't think that they would. And so that was nice. And but I think that the key thing is not to feel that you are boxing yourself in because what I done, and anybody who looks at the price guide can see that I have I've done a set package with a set price per month for each each of the types of content creators. But then I've also made it very, very clear that it's kind of picking mix as well and that nothing
is off the table. And then we can put a bespoke price together for somebody who wants something slightly different. And so I think that's the best way to do it is to try and offer set packages with a price because people do want to know people do want to get an idea of what roughly that could be looking at, well then make it very clear that you can validate can be made bespoke. Yeah, certainly the feedback that I've had from everybody that's done that is, it does work that people are much more ready to engage with you and or what it's going to cost. And the traditional agency model is we don't tell you our prices, you have to come and talk to us and everything is bespoke. And it's actually from the client's perspective, very well pick. They really have to put in a big commitment to you before they're going to even find out how much it costs. Exactly, you know, and nobody wants to waste their time and in all the agencies time either so i think i think it's beneficial for everybody.
I think Natalie, we're probably like to go next as people want to connect with you. How would you like them to do that?
Yeah, absolutely. So I think Instagram, as I said before, is probably my preferred platform. And so I am Natalie underscore hot content on Instagram. And if you wanted to check out the website and as a show on the services page, you can see if you want to get an example of how you know your listeners might be able to put you know, display their packages, and that's hot content. co.uk. I am on twitter at Hot content. UK as well. But yeah, connect me on Instagram and then you can see work stuff on behind the scenes stuff as well on your friends in your kitchen. And the fans and you get
a great guest and so much great content there and
I can't wait to see you. Again. Are you
We're going to see you in November.
Yes, I'll be at you printer in November and then after that, I think it'll be a comic con one tip. Yes, I'll see you there as well. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. It's been great.
I love Natalie's business as it clearly fills a powerful need. Our customers are content creators, but that doesn't make them content marketers. It's so easy to assume the creators have everything buttoned down. But as the most successful people will tell you in any field, delegation is one of the most important keys to success. Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe and if you haven't already joined our Facebook group. You can find a link from the website at Bob Gentle com Or just search gravity, digital marketing and Facebook and you'll find us easily. If you enjoyed the show than I would love for you to review it on iTunes. It would mean so much to me and it's the very best way to help me reach more subscribers. My name is Bob Gentle. Thanks again to Natalie for giving us her time this week.
to you for listening and see you next time.