Most people find it hard to bet on themselves. There are all kinds of things messing with your head and the brain doesn’t like it when you try new things.
This week my podcast guest is the Brave Branding Queen, Esther De Charon and we're talking about how you can move past this, learn to love yourself and lean into your engaging, authentic self and really connect with your audience online.
We're talking about Facebook Ads copy, video marketing and why there are more reasons to succeed than to fail - if you just give yourself permission.
Esthers Website : https://www.estherdecharon.com/
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Hi there and welcome back to Amplify the Digital Marketing Entrepreneur podcast. I'm Bob Gentle, and every Monday I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. If you're new to the show or take a second right now to subscribe so you don't miss new episodes and you can grab some older ones when you're done with this one. Don't forget as well, you can join my Facebook community, just visit uplifting me. Don't form forward slash insiders and you'll be taken right there.
Most people find it hard to bet on themselves. There are all kinds of things messing with your head, and most of them don't like it when you try new things. This week, my guest is the brave branding Queen Esther de Sharon. And we're talking about how you can move past this, learn to love yourself and lean into your engaging, authentic self and really connect with your audience online. We're talking about Facebook ads, copy video marketing and why there are more reasons to succeed than to fail if you just give yourself permission.
So welcome along. And let's meet Esther. So this week, I'm thrilled to welcome Mr. Sharon deciles, your man to the show. Esther, did I say your name properly yet?
You did. It's awesome. Thank you very much for joining me. I've been looking forward to speaking to you for a long time. And it's been really tough having a little bit of chat that you previously are not starting to ask all the questions I want to ask. So for the listener who doesn't know you, why don't you start just by telling us a little bit about who you are, where you are and the kind of work you do.
So I am in the Netherlands. I live all the way up in the north and I run a brave Bren's.
And so we are a bit well, it used to be me, right? So but now there's this team. So it's it's a business for women entrepreneurs, brave women entrepreneurs who are too bright to a multifaceted multi potential and sensitive to fit in the regular A to Z business moult.
So whenever they start a program, they get lost because their brains, our brains work differently. And and and so I.
I work with women like that. See what I find. I think I really like it. And on the other hand, I really don't like it that you just work with women.
Yeah. So how did you make that decision? Why did you make that decision?
Um, actually well I've been I have been working with men before, but it was a long time ago. The thing was that the men it's a little bit weird maybe, but the men who worked with me were the kind of guys who needed some sort of a firm female hand to really it's like, stop doing that. You can change this, done like this. And it made me work really hard. So there was it was definitely something I was doing.
And, um, and then and then from there it became all women. And but I do get the occasional question from men. Why don't you work with men as well? So I don't know, maybe in the future, but for now, it's it's like it's it's an old all women.
I work with all women groups.
Well, I completely understand that and and I applaud it. And I think it's not so much that it's all women. It's how you defined those women and the challenges that they have. What would you say is the biggest problem that people have when they're working with you? What's the problem that sort of drives them towards you?
There are a couple of things. One is that because they are so smart and they have so many degrees that they don't value what they already have. They think that what they they think that treats their degrees. The person who they are is just a very average kind of person. And so they they they think they need to know more. They need to learn more. They need to evolve more. They need to be more perfect, more like the others.
And they never will be like the others because they're different.
And one of the things I teach them is that the fact that they are different is it's the best thing you can have as an entrepreneur because there are so many people who are very much alike and everyone who is even if you're slightly different, it it's it's like you're wearing free advertisement the entire time. But you can only it only works when you are aware of the fact that you are different and that it's great to be different.
I think in many respects most of us are different. We all have characteristics and traits that are just ours. And I think one of the problems a lot of people have when it comes to personal branding is deciding which traits am I going to focus on? Hmm. Am I going to focus on the fact that I'm amazing at a technical thing or am I going to focus on the fact that I'm really adventurous or am I going to focus on I'm really shy, but have overcome it.
How do you sort of guide people towards creating this? I'm going to say it's almost an alter ego. They're really putting on a costume, but they're deciding what they're going to be wearing in terms of a personal brand. How do you help them through that?
It's two things. It's it's it's actually starts with the client, the audience, or what I call your soul client, the you want to attract. And if you create a brand, you want to be truly relatable for that audience.
So if you let's say you're a health coach and your audience are men in their 30s, I'm going to make this really complicated for myself. It's men in their 30s who like they like fast cars.
And I think that when that is your choice, if that's if that's your audience, then need for sure. There is a love of fast cars that you've got. So to make it really simple, instead of be like all the other health coaches, you are going to be the health coach who loves fast cars because now you attract the 30 year something guys who are going to be in love with your car. And and so you made this invisible. No, it's very visible connection between them and you.
So it's it's it's you pick one thing. That is already in your energy, in who you are or what you love and what in you, and then match it with what your social clients really love is. It makes sense.
It does make sense. And I'm trying to sort of roll through that in my head. I think one of the challenges then is really embracing who you are. I think a lot of the time from you can you can fake what you're describing there, but it won't really work very well because you won't be living it.
It won't it will never work because you will. So that's why my work always starts with self-love and self acceptance. If you. I know that many of my clients have a certain time in their life. They've heard that they are that they're weird. Why do you always talk back? Why do you always need to stand out? Why do you always need to disagree with everything? Why can't you just fit in? Why don't you fit in the box?
Things like that. And so if you if you've been hearing that for all your life, you really you start using those words for yourself and then it's like this 24/7 in our roll call that says, why don't why, why? Why can't I never fit in? Why? What's what's wrong with me? Why does my business not grow? I'm sure they hate me. It's like this whole story that we're it, that it's even when no one outside ourselves is saying it, we are seeing it to ourselves.
We are relentless when it comes to ourselves. So self-love and self acceptance changes everything because it's like this layer. It's like this this truly strong foundation in your business, in your life, that once it's there, you can basically do everything.
Something you mentioned about your clients is that they're often very intelligent, they're very smart, they're very experienced, very, very well qualified from a professional perspective a lot of the time. But the thing with really clever, intelligent, well qualified people is their second guess themselves a lot. So this sort of idea of the sole client I know when I work with my clients and we're trying to work out who is your ideal customer, and we go through this whole sort of traditional avatar process, the second guess themselves a lot.
And it's really, really hard for them actually to make commitments to a particular person in terms of an avatar. How do you help your clients? Discover this sole client, as you put it. How how do you sort of give them the compass and a map to finding out who this person is and make sure that they don't get distracted into the more traditional avatars of they need to have the right amount of money to spend on my services or you know what I mean?
Well, I have a little bit of a different kind of path because I usually start with what I call a soul whisperer, where we do some sort of a visualization and where they go to a place. And I just make this stuff up. Right. Well, so I'm just sitting with them and I'll take them to a place where there are people. And then some of the people don't look at them and some are. And then there is. And it's just it's just a whole it's a whole thing.
And then they meet people who eventually are their sole clients. And sometimes it's.
Oh, and they they tell my clients themselves what it is, what they need and why they've chosen her. And so we start from there. We start with an idea. And sometimes it happens that the people who work with me run into that person the next day. And it's really weird and I cannot explain it. I've not I've I actually have no idea how I'm doing it, but it really works.
And then I invite them to really have a talk to that person or to someone who looks like that person. And and it's very it's very often a very open discussion, like, what is it that you really need? And then I tell them to really listen to the things they're not telling. So let's let's do the example of the health coach again. If she or he is talking to the 30 year old man who loves fast cars because of the way you do the you have the conversation.
You might find out that the fear of the 30 year old man is the fear of losing the car or never get the car. And maybe that person is truly stressed out about it.
And but you can only find out about that once you once you really talk to people.
And the thing is that many people have the conversation in their own heads. And it's it's it that that won't help. So you really need to talk to people also instead of going in circles for a very long time, sometimes you just need to decide on this is my person. And so there are a couple of things that person needs. You need to really honor, love and respect that person as a sole client. Otherwise it's not going to work and it needs to be Fizer first.
That person needs to be able to pay you. If he or she cannot pay you, then it's never a sole client. And and it's someone that you want to work with now. And it's someone that wants to buy something from you that only you can give her or him.
And so it's it's all about being different from all the others. Does that make sense?
It does. It makes perfect sense. I think the whole idea of the sole client is quite easy. But then if you imagine the Venn diagram of all the qualities that person could have, but then there's a circle that also declares they must be able to pay you, that actually excludes quite a lot. Yeah. So that's that's a very interesting measure, I think. Yeah, I think for a lot of people this this idea, I think for some people it doesn't matter.
But for other people I think this sense of vocation which goes beyond making money, this is the life's purpose, is very, very important. Yeah. And I think that's where the sole client can actually give work. Meaning because once you've got past while making money is actually quite easy online. But what's this doing in order to build a legacy or what's this doing in order to really move the life forward of somebody that I care about? That's that's a much bigger goal.
That's a much bigger vision. And that's something that's much easier to get out of bed for. To be honest. Yeah. Another element, I guess, that a lot of your clients probably struggle with, and I'm making a bit of a reach here, is probably imposter syndrome and comparison. Self-love, I guess, is one antidote to that. But how do you help them through that? Because it's one thing understanding. Well, now I know who I am for me, but now I need to start showing up for them.
And there's all kinds of mindset issues around that.
I actually always think that everything comes down to fear, impulse, impulse, imposter syndrome, fear, procrastination, fear, perfectionism, fear. It's all fear. And we are so freaking afraid to show up who we really are because of all the reasons of all the things people have been telling us when we were young. And now we are telling ourselves that we come up with anything. And I and so Elizabeth Gilbert says that, oh, that's about perfectionism.
So perfectionism is a fear into a beautiful shoes wearing a mink coat. So it's it's all fear.
And I really think that. There is a little part is about. Getting over it by taking action, but the biggest part is really look into your fear and now the danger is that you're going into like this, you self development a deep dive in yourself. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you're an entrepreneur, you need to make money. Otherwise, you're you're growing a hobby.
So sometimes you just need to do it. And that's actually this is why groups work and why a community works, because it's really hard to do it by yourself. If if you and if you are afraid that your voice is horrible in new convince, your voice is horrible and that that is the reason why you can never go live, then that is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. But if you're in a group and everyone says, I believe you can do it and we would love to hear what you've got to say, and then you go live in that group, everything changes.
So it's a combination of being with others. They're all there to be vulnerable with you. It's taking action not by pushing yourself, but by falling into it and by really exploring where the web is, what's with this whole fear thing. So it's it's not one thing. It's a lot of things you need to do.
But I guess accepting that that's what it is is probably a very definitely.
Yeah. I think a lot of people let ego get in the way and that's why they don't make any progress, is because their ego will not permit them to make mistakes because they have to they're qualified, the professional, they're experienced. They can make mistakes. They can't take risks now. And something that I know to be 100 percent true is if you're going to build your business online, you better give yourself permission to make a lot of mistakes to look very, very foolish.
That's part of it. That's the price of entry.
So obviously, before I do an interview, I have a little bit of a rummage around somebody ecosystem and see what they're doing online. And what I really like about yours is, you know, a lot of people that you go on their website and there's here, download my checklist or get this thing. You've got things that people can download, but a lot of the time that's where it ends. You get the download. What I loved about yours was at every point along that many journey, there's intimacy and warmth built into it.
So when you get your download, that takes you to a page where, again, there's a lot of storytelling, there's lots of relationship building, I call it. There's a video to watch. Most people will often say you need to put a video on your thank you page, but you took this much further and it's really, really polished.
I'm curious to know how much time or thought these aren't even the right questions I'm asking, what has been your journey in terms of your lead generation business?
Not early generation business, but not part of your online world because it's so polished.
OK, thank you.
Hey, it's polished, polished isn't necessarily the right word because it's terabits of it that are not polished, but what it is, is intimate.
I, I really started my online business in 2014 and I, I had no idea who I was talking to.
So it's a little bit of a story, but I'll get there. So I focused on women, young mothers. So I did everything in Dutch at first.
So I started with young mothers who know I started with 30 something city girls who were looking for happiness. So I found it happiness school. So that was my first thing. And then nothing happened because I had no idea how to do this. But I could build websites. I loved the whole coding thing. I, I really went all left brain on it. And so to make a very long story short, I made websites and lead magnets and and and the most amazing thing, things for so many different.
Target audiences like magnets, I think I created over a five different crisis that that I'm not even using them anymore. So I'm really fast with creating something. And then I sort of. I just let it go. I even forgot about it, which is very much something that my clients experience as well. So we're really facing creating something. And then it's like, oh, it's gone. So. I actually think that's the whole storytelling and the reaching out, and I I think that started once I got over that it needs to be perfect.
I need to only speak to that person and not to the rest. And when I. I actually really love doing it, and I don't know, I think that I think that's it. I just really love doing it and I love reaching out to people. And I'm really, really introvert. I, I love the lockdown, which is hard. It's hard because there's so many people, so many people. It's impacting so many people.
But I love I'm with my husband and my son and the three of us love the lockdown. We love staying home and just busy with the three of us. And being an online entrepreneur gives me.
Gives me permission to really reach out from the depth of my heart to people without actually having them in my home.
I really like that. And I think from one introvert to another, I'm right there with you on social isolation. I think it causes a few problems. But mental health is not part of that for me. I really enjoy my quiet. Something I'm curious about then is. Everything you said, you're quite introverted, but I'm guessing you're not shy are such.
You see, you don't seem sure, yeah, no, because I I when I'm so I'm sitting here in my office and I'm at home and but the moment you take me out of the office and put me in a large room with strangers, the thing is, whenever there is like a two days event, the first day I it's almost I find it extremely difficult to talk to everyone. The second day. I'm much better because now it feels like I know these people.
So, yeah, it's I shy.
I don't know because I really like to I like to be on stage for instance. But one on one. That's the thing, that's the difference. I, I completely am OK with a small group, not so much with a bigger group right now.
That makes perfect sense. So I would like to ask you about a few of the nuts and bolts of your business. And the reason I ask these questions is lots of people will see people like Esther online who appear to have great businesses. Now, I know for a fact you have a great business. And so for a lot of people, they'll be wondering what's under the bonnet and a great business. That is really what leads me to ask the question, how does opportunity typically come to you?
Is it coming through Facebook or is it coming through network referrals? Is it coming through affiliates? What is it that actually drives most business for you? Sort of. Maybe if we leave email to one side for the moment, what is it that drives people into your world in the first place?
Facebook, definitely. Facebook ads just being present on Facebook, some on Instagram, but to a lesser account, a little bit on Pinterest. But I, I'm very inconsistent there. So it's it's mainly it's mainly Facebook.
And when new people come into your world, is it typically through us?
It's through ads. And so the client journey very often is they join for some sort of a free program. So I'm doing a free program called Become the Client Magnet next month. End of this month, and so I think around 2000 or so people will join and then they go into my free group and sort of regroup gross and I really nurturing my free group. And then part of them goes into my membership. And then a part of the people are in the membership.
Go and be in my Leape program, which is a year program or in my program that is a self love program. But the majority of them comes via Facebook ads. Or sometimes I got a couple of these clients who have sort of sometimes open it like a door for me, which I really, really love. I find it so amazing and it's like, hey, you need to learn, you need to get to know this person. And then there is this huge, huge group of Czech women is because one that you are my client right now is because one person opened the door to me.
And I am so grateful for that.
It's so amazing.
I think certainly when you do deliver value as somebody shares that you've done that that can lead to all kinds of opportunities. Yeah. So this is my impertinent question then, um, to generate those 2000 people into your free program, how much would you have spent on ads to achieve that?
Two thousand, probably, right. I'm guessing that's urines a year in euros.
Yeah, right. And I never know if that's a lot or not, but that's the amount of money I am about to invest in the next launch.
I'm really glad you told me that because I think nobody really has a benchmark for what is normal. You hear all kinds of stories saying, oh, I generated so much business from 50 pounds, but what is so much business look like really? And how true is that? Whereas somebody else will tell you or you going to need to spend 50000 pounds to see any benefit. But to understand this is what I achieved as my customer journey, this is what went into it.
It's very practically useful. So thanks for that. Thank you.
So one of the things I love about your content in particular is your copywriting that. It's again, the word that keeps coming back again and again is, is intimacy you? Express yourself and a lot of people don't. Has that ever gone badly for you now in terms of negative reactions?
Oh, all the time that it's I, I show up pretty vulnerable.
And open about who I am and where I come from, about the fact that I have been really depressed for over 10 years, about my own struggles and.
It's so there are a lot of people who like that because they completely relate to that.
It also gets me off if there's ever anyone who puts me on a pedestal, I climb off within seconds and but sometimes people are upset or they are, yeah, I get unfriendly emails, but thankfully, which is something everyone needs to do, it's I, I don't read my own emails anymore.
And so my team is reading my emails and they show me the ones that are wonderful and they destroy the ones that are mean because sometimes they're mean. And so yeah, it happens, people feel the need to say mean things, but it's never about me. It's really all about them.
I guess so I think as well, if if you want to reach out to people, if you if you really want to create the sort of beacon effect where everybody can see who you are, what you do and what you're about and who you are for, that's going to polarize. Some people are going to be, oh, my God, that's amazing. But you can't have that without the. Oh, my God, that's terrible. Yeah, that's the price of admission.
If you want to be visible online, you're going to have to accept people have polarizing views. Some people love cheese. Some people hate cheese. What are you going to do? So which part of your business do you feel you struggle with the most or is it leaves you feeling, you know what? I'm not I'm not playing at my best here.
In all honesty, I find growing a team really hard and.
So we're a team of six right now, and I've been doing all the work by myself for so long, and I'm one of those eight type entrepreneurs who go like, oh, just give it to me, I'm much faster.
I can do this myself. I've been working so hard and I think for the past years. And my office, which doesn't work, so I don't work like crazy or I just don't do anything for an entire day, but I'm mostly it's on the switch and working with a team means that sometimes I need to take my switch off and let other people really do the work. They can do much faster and better than me. And so it's it's it's all trust letting go, having faith that people will really do the work and then get all those soapies out there and systems and processes.
And, oh, I find it really hard, even though I know it's the only way to get me to the next level.
I totally get that. I think delegation is a nice idea, but it's it can be so painful sometimes because you, you know, you could do things faster and better yourself, but it's always what does that prevent you doing that only you can do? Hmm. That's really interesting, I guess. What are your ambitions for the business? What would you where would you like the business to go? Where where do you maybe feel you're called to but you're not currently at.
I, I want world domination.
I really what I if I if there's anything I want to do is to teach people. And then in my case, women who can teach their children and everyone around them and their partners and their their neighbors, that self-love really is the foundation of everything that I stop by, by by not by accepting ourselves and by. And it's not just by being courageous and brave that we can I really believe that we can we could change the world with that.
So so it's much bigger than just my business.
Yeah. I guess something that I really like to ask anybody that I see and doing what you're doing and that they're doing it well and they're doing it successfully, is when I speak to my clients and ask him, what's your biggest barrier to being successful? And they will all tell me almost universally it's not tactics, it's not content is not ideal time. They don't know how to manage their time. So looking at somebody who's doing well online, how do you manage and prioritize your time?
Yeah, it's such a good question.
I in all honesty, I very much in the process to promote prioritize my time over business time. And so I'm I'm. I'm really bad at getting up in the early morning, so just not doing that. I just I just work harder.
What is the question how I do it or how well do you have a time management process?
Oh, yes. Yes. So what? Let me see what I do.
I actually I never have clients or Kohl's or there or anything before 10:00 am, because the time before the moment I wake up, it's I start thinking about life and my clients and where I want to go and all the possibilities. And so I use the a big part of the morning to be outside in the garden, to be with the cats, to talk to my husband, to drink coffee, to have breakfast.
And then at 10:00 is this there's this work switch happening. And so I always sent out a message to my accountability body and telling her what I'm doing that day and reading what she's going to do that day, and then it's and oh, and the other thing I do, I always look at my calendar the night before I go to bed and see what kind of day is coming towards me, whether it's a day filled with coaching or Wade mastermind calls.
And then when it's an empty day, then I'm using the emptiness of my calendar to do something for myself.
Like being outside and read a book or to do something that is immediately beneficial for my business, like writing an email that I will send out or make a couple of posts. So I play with my empty time, but my but I'm always I'm really bad at calendars, so my team needs to put all my or my calendar thingies in my calendar. Otherwise, I just I've just spoken like a true artist. I don't think you need to explain anymore as though we're probably coming towards the end of the interview.
And I guess there will be people listening who think I really I want to connect with Esther if they want to do that. How would you like them to do that?
There are two things you can do. I have my copy guide on my website, on the show, on dotcom.
And I will say I download a lot of PDF, but I very rarely print them. I have actually printed your. You did. I did print it. It's really good. Thank you.
The thing is, I'm Dutch. I know my English is not perfect, but I loved writing the book. I had so much fun. It was so I, I created it while being on Skumanick. Oh. Which is a very small island in the Netherlands. And I just I wrote it in I think two days or so and I really, really love doing it. So hearing you saying that, that means the world to me.
So that was one way. Yeah. Oh right. So that's one way. And the other way is I'm doing a five days of program called How to Become the Client Magnet, which is basically showing up really like you, because that is what will bring you the clients. And so that will be on my website as well. And I don't have the exact link to it. That's OK.
I can put that on the show. OK, so for this, this will probably go live in a few weeks, so I'll make sure when it does, there is a link there. Great. I need to ask you my signature question. I've been really good with this recently. So what's one thing you do now that you wish you'd started five years ago?
So it is 2020. So I wish in 2015 I had started to stop doing it by myself.
I hiring people to work with me and to gently nudge me into out of my fear, I think if I had started doing that five years ago, I, I would be already at a different level than where where I am now.
This idea that you can do everything yourself as an entrepreneur, that you don't need others. This whole also this self. I'm a self-made men. I'm a self-made woman. I genuinely don't believe that. I believe in having it takes a village to grow a business like this. And so having support professional it all any kind of support.
That I wish I had I wish I had started in 2015 instead of almost in 2017.
That's a great answer. So has the decision to German awesome name. Why don't you say it for me once it's to the shareholders. Asherman. So you say much better. Thank you so much for your time. And yeah. I can't wait to see you again sometime. Me too. I love this. If you're listening to this as I publish it, then I hope you had a great Christmas and I wish you a very prosperous 2021 if you've struggled this year, and I really hope next year is better for you.
Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe. And if you haven't already join my Facebook group, you'll find a link in the show, notes or just visit, amplify me from forward, slash insiders and you'll be taken right there. I would also love for you to connect with me on social media. You'll find me wherever you hang out. Just find at Bob Temple. And if you do message me, let me know and I can follow you back.
If you enjoyed the show, then I would love for you to review it on iTunes. It means a lot to me and it's the very best way to help me reach more subscribers. My name is Bob Gentil. Thanks again to Esther for giving us her time this week and to you for listening and see you next year.