About Bob Gentle

I work with businesses of all sizes on digital marketing, host the Amplify digital marketing entrepreneur podcast and work with entrepreneurs to help them amplify their business online.

Episode Overview

So the truth is that if you want to get noticed on social media you have to earn attention on somebody else's feed. This week’s guest does that - pretty much every day on instagram. There’s frankly nobody else whose posts I save and share more often.

Prolific creators are people I pay attention to - particularly when they give me such value so I’m thrilled to welcome Travis Brown to the show this week.


Automatic Audio Transcription

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Transcription on the way.

Thanks for listening!

It means a lot to me and to the guests. If you enjoyed listening then please do take a second to rate the show on iTunes.  Every podcaster will tell you that iTunes reviews drive listeners to our shows so please let me know what you thought and make sure you subscribe using your favourite player using the links below.

Episode Overview

All over the world there are great people in great businesses that get overlooked.  They fail to meet their potential for reasons that have nothing to do with ability. They’re often the same issues which small business owners face out in the entrepreneurial world.

So this week my guest is Max Habeck.  Max is a very big hitter, working with partners and leadership teams at the biggest consulting firms in the world to help them unleash their PartnerPowers.

About Max

Max has worked in consulting all his life. First, at Kearney, a strategy firm, where he made partner and practice leader. Later, becoming a managing partner at EY, looking after 1,100 people in one of the fastest-growing practices globally. He also wrote two books on post-merger integration, his career theme

Now, he support partners to build standout practices and teams while having a life.


Automatic Audio Transcription

Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription.  There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.  

[00:00:01.870] - Speaker 1
Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show. Today on the show, Bob is speaking with Max Hobeck.

[00:00:12.110] - Speaker 2
What I never imagined, I think how the business has become virtual. Initially, when I set out, I thought, now I need to be going to see people constantly across Europe and whatnot. And I think that has totally changed. I think the entry barriers for me as an individual service provider, they really have shrunk in quite a nice way.

[00:00:42.930] - Speaker 1
Hi there and welcome back to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneurship. My name is Bob Gentle, and every week I'm joined by incredible and inspiring people who share what makes their business work. If you're new to the show, take a second right now to subscribe to whichever player you use. And if you are listening on Apple podcasts, make sure and click that new follow option in the top right hand corner of the page or in your app, rather. That way, Apple knows to queue me up every time I publish a new episode. And that way we both win. So before I jump into introducing this week's guest, just a quick reminder once again that after nearly 200 of these interviews, I've learned a thing or two about what makes business work online. And it turns out success doesn't leave clues. And I want to give you that map, jump over to my website and grab your copy of The Personal Brand Business Roadmap. It's everything you need to start scale or just fix your personal brand business. It's yours for free as a gift from me. Now, most weeks on the show, we focus on how to stand out as a small business or as an entrepreneur.

[00:01:43.030] - Speaker 1
But what if you want to stand out inside a large organisation, as a personal brand entrepreneur, so to speak, rather than as an entrepreneur? It's safe to say that in large organisations, the same rules apply as in regular business. You want to stand out inside or outside an organisation, same rules apply. So this week, my guest is Max Habeck, and we're going deep into how to stand out in a global Corporation. Max, welcome to the show.

[00:02:11.410] - Speaker 2
Thank you. I'm delighted to be here.

[00:02:13.210] - Speaker 1
So I'm really excited to speak to you about this particular thing because a lot of my contacts, a lot of the people who know me, they're not running organisations. They're not business leaders, so to speak. But it still matters to them that they're visible in their organisation and that they're making the best out of every opportunity they can. So I know this is really your area of focus in a big way. So that was why I wanted to have you on the show. But for the listener who doesn't know you, who is a Max Habit, and what do you do? What's the Max Habit story?

[00:02:49.990] - Speaker 2
Yeah, the Max Havoc story. It's really about leadership development in the big four. And I work exclusively with leaders in the big four. Firms, which are the major accounting and integrated professional services firms. Just think Ernst and Young, think Deloitte, think KPMG. Pwc and similar firms. And it's really for me helping people leaders in those firms build stand out businesses while having a life. I used to be a leader at one of them myself, looking after 1700 people in one of the fastest growing businesses globally and basically in a way figured it out and been struck by the fact how important the behaviours I been learning over the years are also now in my change life. For me, it's really about bringing excitement, confidence and joy to people in the big four and similar firms and wherever they may be.

[00:03:59.250] - Speaker 1
So one of the things we've had conversations in the past, one of the things that strikes me about working in these big organisations is the pressure is on. What is the pressure like for these people day to day? What are the expectations on them?

[00:04:14.200] - Speaker 2
Well, the interesting parties. You enter the profession as a junior consultant, as a junior auditor and you become a subject matter expert. Usually you like numbers, you do deep dives, you get excited about it. You are totally waked up by showing your client new insight and you're progressing throughout your career. And then all of a sudden more and more other things become important, for instance. And the major part is selling. So the pressures people find themselves under is and even after having reached the highest level and the highest level in these professional services firms, it's a role basically a partner. You are a co owner of the business and you are supposed to be running your own business, finding clients, developing them, serving them. So you're finally in the role you always wanted to be in. But all of a sudden you find out and say, oh my God, this is much more demanding than it ever has been. The firm is expecting so much from me. You always pride also yourself on being a subject matter expert. And yet again the firm says, well this is all great, but now you need to become a sea level advisor.

[00:05:38.570] - Speaker 2
You need to be working with the top executive. You need to bring to bear all the services the firm has to offer and really be an integrated provider. Services you need to generate the revenues and you get your scorecard and the firm is expecting from you a certain top line, you're contributing and once in a while you're getting desperate saying, So where is this coming from? Oh my God, you have team members and you always provided say it again. Here you have team members, people supporting you, working yet again, that's fine. You're working with team members, people supporting you. And you always prided you on being a great people person. But you sense they have all become more demanding and you need to figure it out. And Moreover, you wouldn't be there if you hadn't been able to work really hard and you get to a point also where you start realising, will this never change? The hours remain brutal. The strain may be showing at home and you look around you and you want to know, why are some of the others so much more at ease? So that's it not quite in a nutshell, but these are kind of the five, six areas I always see people dealing with and I dealt myself with as a former partner in one of the major firms.

[00:07:24.580] - Speaker 1
So listening to that, I think there's a lot of parallels just with regular business ownership. That a lot of the time people grow into a business ownership role because they were a great technician. You speak about subject matter experts. Most people are great at what they do, which is why they do well in business, and then they find themselves as a business owner trying to grow, building a team. It's the same when you come in as a partner, I guess, and the rules are different, the expectations are different and you have to grow in other areas, I guess. So for me, there's a lot to relate to there within your Practise. Then how are you helping them grow in these areas? What are the tools that you bring to bear? Because these are busy people, they don't have time to waste and they don't suffer fools gladly, I imagine. So what is your process for helping them get to a point where they're probably in crisis or sometimes to a point where they are at the same level of ease or similar as those people that they look up to?

[00:08:33.540] - Speaker 2
Yeah, it's a great question, Bob, and I'm just reflecting on a discussion I had with a partner in one of the firms just yesterday, and I was stuck by the fact that he has about 40 years old. He has been a partner for three and a half years, so he has been really on the fast track and he is starting to realise now and say, oh, my God, I still have 20 years to go, what am I going to be doing now? How is my future going to be panning out? Is this just continuing? Is it going to be more and more and more and what I have done and I have been part of the industry for all my career. I started out in the 90s as an associate in the strategy converting firm and then moved on from there. But what I really have defined is what I call the three partner powers, and the three partner powers are market up, team up and lead up. And I'm pretty vocal about that. These are the three areas you need to be succeeding in in order to have a great career. And what is so interesting about it is it's not really different from what you need to be doing as an entrepreneur.

[00:10:03.090] - Speaker 2
For instance, market up. It's really about shaping your profile, define your ideal clients and develop your go to market system. Think about it for a moment. In the major firms, you have hundreds of partners. What is great about the major firms is there's tremendous market access. However, your co partners need to understand what you do in order for them to be able to present you and your service at one of their clients. So it's really, I mean, get clear your profile, tell them who is your ideal client. And then also you need to have kind of a rigorous system how you go about developing your market. And clearly in the big four, it's more internally, I would argue, than externally, because the market reach is very strong. Moving over to the team up part, it's really about determining your role, how you cooperate with others, how you leverage skills you find in the firm, how you find people willing to support you. And it's really about establishing your relationship outside of the corporate environment. You probably would say, how do you partner with other firms? Or so here you need to partner internally. And that's what I call team up.

[00:11:43.330] - Speaker 2
And then I think what really makes a difference is the lead up part. You find yourself after having been a partner for a couple of years, people start to think or you start to think there are quite a few around me. How do I stick out? Is there a next step? For me, it's really about you setting your agenda, articulating your core beliefs and sharpening your presence. And I think that is so comparable to the outside world. But at the same time, very few have a clear system determined, a clear system, a clear pathway for themselves. And that's where I come in and that's where I help because I think it is really about keeping up the excitement, the confidence and also the joy you as a professional experienced in the early years of your career. But as I said a little earlier, and then you are a partner and you find yourself and saying, oh my God, I still have a couple of years ago, I have decades ago. How do I keep the energy? What is interesting and I think you can shape it.

[00:13:04.170] - Speaker 1
I think what's interesting to me, listening to what you're describing there is when you're great at something, people promote you and you hear the stories of the great sales professional that was put in a sales manager role. He never wanted to be a manager, but because he was great at his job, he was sort of drawing up the organisation a little bit. And the problem with celebrating success like that is it means that those people who are great at something, as long as they're continuing to do their best, they're constantly being put in positions where their comfort zones are being tested and they're constantly put in positions where they're uncomfortable. And I think that's why these partner powers. They give your ideal customer a tool set with which to become comfortable, to move from a state of distress through discomfort to a state of ease through discomfort. If you see what I mean.

[00:14:05.430] - Speaker 2
Absolutely. And I would totally Echo your point, Bob. I have seen over the years in this industry too frequently. I mean, partners getting promoted to a regional position, more of a leadership position, and they used to be the greatest Rainmaker the world had ever seen. But somehow the firm felt there was a need to provide him or her with the next step up. And Interestingly enough, the teams in the firms many times have been much more observant than the leadership level that within the younger ranks. You heard so and so was promoted to such and such and people looked at themselves and said, really? I mean, come on, he is a great client handler, great salesperson and whatnot. But he cannot stand in front of any group. I mean, he cannot talk, he cannot. Has he ever said anything really engaging? So it's kind of really interesting. And I think, granted, we all cannot become the greatest leaders the world has ever seen. But I think with a plan in hand, you can start working at it. And I think also you need to be don't go all over the place, focus on what makes the difference.

[00:15:50.610] - Speaker 2
Unfortunately, these firms, there are so many systemic behaviours. You join the firm, you observe what the quote unquote elders are doing and that must be right. And you will also find that certain behaviours are just totally silly. They're not adding anything and still people keep doing them and what the partners powers are helping clients with, it's really about, let's make sure you get your focus right and you start working at things that truly matter. And also be clear what you say no to. And unfortunately, over the years and you know what? I've been as guilty as any other partner. There is certain things are thrown in you and you pick them up well, knowing well, this is not quite fitting. You're not really ready to have a discussion right now with your managing partner about it. At the same time, you feel a little, in a way, honoured and say, oh, yeah, cookie, and trusting me with this, but it's not really helping you. And funny enough, after people have become partners, I have had quite a few discussions when I was still a managing partner with junior partners at the time who immediately got approached by the system and saying, hey, couldn't you do this and that for us?

[00:17:31.770] - Speaker 2
And Thankfully, I remember one of the partners calling me up and saying, hey, Max, is this really adding anything right now to what I should be doing? And I thought it's almost like, thank you for that question, Daniel, because no, it's not. You need to be focusing on really something else right now. And the role they offered you. That's great after you got your swimming certificate as a partner but not right now. Make sure you're not getting confused and the big organisations have a tendency to confuse people too.

[00:18:17.940] - Speaker 1
So a place I would like to go I guess is you had a great career in a giant organisation and now you're doing things your own way. It's really jumping from one end of the spectrum right through to the other as a solopreneur so to speak. Although I know you have a team but nevertheless it's the Max Hibeck organisation, it's not Ernst and Young or KPMG or any of these big boys. So how have you found that transition and what I guess the real question is selfishly. It's one of the biggest lessons that you've taken from being in a giant organisation and applied to your own small business. What have been the greatest assets from that experience in your new experience?

[00:19:09.870] - Speaker 2
Well I think one of the greatest assets definitely has been that I don't shy away from presenting myself whether it being little LinkedIn videos and I don't have because have been talking to groups of couple of thousand people and so I think that is definitely one of the assets. I think my career has provided me with the ability to basically climb on any stage and ticket something sensible and worthwhile for the audience. So I think that is really great. At the same time the challenge as a solopreneur it's quite different. I also had to learn and I'm most definitely one of the perfectionists out there and it was really easy with the team you had been working with for years, team members knowing what these standards were as a soloprene that is much more complicated because it's really you, you are the team and in order to really grow the business you need to start leveraging yourself better. I mean I'm totally clear on where my strengths are. I always been a creator, I like to stand in front of people, I like to generate ideas, I have certain expectations for delivery and I think the realisation hey that the workbench is not just the creator or the R Amp D and design Department but also the workbench and they all are called Max.

[00:21:21.280] - Speaker 2
I think that's one of the biggest challenges but I think the realisation is really important that also to establish a real business you need to put a plan in place and you need to work the plan and there are really lead indicators and there are lack indicators so I think really monitoring lead indicators that certain activities are happening. It's really key to generate or produce the lack indicators and for simplicity sake it's really from the number of client contacts as a lead indicator you have had over the course of the week and then as a lack indicator later on the revenues generated basically and I think that kind of understanding has been tremendously helpful and I guess another question I'm always very curious to ask is with your business now.

[00:22:24.850] - Speaker 1
Which parts of it do you find personally the hardest? Which parts are really not your comfort zone?

[00:22:35.230] - Speaker 2
I really like a lot the market facing activities. I'm getting incredible energy out of talking to potential clients. Also in the marketing space, I really like whatever has to do with developing clients, serving clients really love it. I think the struggles really are when it gets about checking things, certain things are really happening. And my whole career I think I've always been a very strong believer that people want to do a great job. I think one of the learning stand for me has become that I need to do a better job in explaining what I want. Where in the past it was kind of easy because somehow people around me got me. They understood from the get go. And I think that definitely has changed and that is a challenge and something we kind of struggle with it weekly.

[00:23:58.320] - Speaker 1
To be honest, I think something I hear from a lot of entrepreneurs is on the one hand, systems that they don't have the systems in place, they give them the freedom. I think when you're working in a large organisation, you have the back office systems there. There is built in efficiencies, whereas when you have to create them from scratch or depend on other people to bring them to you, they don't have those systems necessarily. And so then you're left vulnerable in the situation where you either educate or you do it yourself. And that's not a nice place for someone like you who's used to having these systems just work, I'm guessing.

[00:24:42.510] - Speaker 2
No, I think you are absolutely right. I think one of the challenges I'm all for systems, but there's also the realisation. They are not created by someone else but me in the end or I bring in other people who help me create the system. I think that's exactly where I'm at right now. I think over the last year or so it's been quite clear to me that I need to build a team and I need to really enable them to get certain things in place. And it may not be the picture perfic solution Max would have created, but it's much better than what I think that's part of the realisation too. You're getting to a point more in a way of look at it and say, by God, I mean, I can design a long list of what I need, but we need to kind of start doing and get it executed. And I think that's kind of the constant challenge. It's about priorities. What do you do first, what can be delayed? And clearly when you start out, clearly you start out and say, hey, let's kind of work first on the top line, find some clients and the rest will take place later on.

[00:26:08.370] - Speaker 2
But I would urge all entrepreneurs make sure you're not losing sight of what else needs to be taking place as well. And I think as an entrepreneur, I've been looking for kind of guides people who have done it before. I simply don't have the time and the capacity to educate myself on each and every aspect of what is feasible right now. And, for instance, watch YouTube videos and there is no time for it. So I'm looking for people who can help, who have done it before and either farm it out on a per job basis or bring someone on and say, hey, can you be my integrator here, for instance?

[00:26:59.990] - Speaker 1
So one of the things I know about you is you're busy, you're a really busy guy and you are ambitious, although you're no longer working in Big Four, and that was your choice, you are ambitious for the Max Habit partner Powers business. And I think there are some people listening thinking he only works for four or five different organisations. For the person who doesn't necessarily know how many people work in these organisations.

[00:27:32.330] - Speaker 2
Well, the Big four are 350,000 plus globally. And what is really attractive about them for me as a provider, services targeting them. There are individual country organisations. I think also what I never imagined, I think how the business has become virtual. Initially when I set out, I thought, now I need to be going to see people constantly across Europe and whatnot. And I think that has totally changed. I think the entry barriers for me as an individual service provider, they really have shrunk in quite a nice way. So when I just look at the big four right now, for instance, the big four are present in more than 120 countries. It's sizable. They are structured all the same way. So they are kind of divisions, they are sub business units. So the opportunity for me and also having the experience in these businesses, I mean, it's really a great market to be in right now.

[00:29:01.590] - Speaker 1
And I want to ask a question about that market in a little bit for anybody that's thinking, you know what, I think I have something to serve that audience with. But what I wanted to focus on and the reason I asked the question was people hear people in my chair talking about the importance of Niching all the time. And when I first looked at what you were doing, I thought, that looks like an incredibly narrow niche, but actually it's broad enough to support a good sized business. And that was really where I wanted to go. That you at the moment, it's Max HABIC driving this, but I know you have plans to grow and that sort of projecting yourself five years into the future is really what I wanted to look at is how do you see this organisation growing?

[00:29:52.890] - Speaker 2
I see it really become a true partner, to be honest. I think there is a great opportunity for people like me who have been there, done it. I think one, in dealing with clients, I have kind of immediate credibility because I used to be one of them, I have been through it and I think there is this big discussion between coaches, oh, should the coach know? And it's not really about advice, but I think it's a lot about empathy. What clients tell me is, oh, my God, we definitely see that you understand that the first day of the new fiscal year, your revenue metre starts pretty much at zero and you better get busy. And I think that is something which you can, it's very hard if you haven't been there. And so I see this really grow with a group of partners over the years where we really address the issues partners are facing and really helping them yet again, build stand up Practise while having a life. And I think that's kind of key what we do and that's what we want to be recognised for here.

[00:31:26.310] - Speaker 1
And I guess selfishly, on behalf of the listener, there will be people thinking, yeah, I think I have something to bring. These big four businesses, obviously you have credibility because you were one of them, but they represent quite a healthy, affluent market. And if somebody was listening thinking, okay, I have something that I would like to bring to that audience. How would you mentor someone like that to go about it?

[00:31:56.590] - Speaker 2
It's interesting. The moment you are running a decent sized business and one of the big four, you're getting approached by the outside market people trying to pitch you, coaching, training, presentation, drafting, whatever services. And what I find so interesting is over my career I only worked with a very selected few. First of all, did not have time to and I think this is critical, make sure people get what you offer and what it does. And I think that is one of the observations I have had as a buyer. It was like, I'm not getting it, how is this helping me? And I think it is also executive search services, for instance, they all pitch a good game and so on, but they never understand really that whoever I want to bring into the business, I still have a boss and they need to make it easy for me, make it easy for me, so I can kind of further the course here. And I think that is sometimes it's totally convoluted and I didn't have the time to really take a bite and it was impossible. So I think really be totally clear, think about the potential client and sit back and make it kind of clear what is it they get from you and how does it make their life better?

[00:33:35.770] - Speaker 2
Other than that, there are incredible hurdles to get in there. And if that is not, and if you're not finding promoters to really see the value, I think it's going to be hard.

[00:33:48.190] - Speaker 1
So really, I guess it boils down to relationships. You need to build relationships first. You need to build an understanding of the organisation and the people in that organisation. You need to demonstrate value before you've taken any money and then hope one of those people that you've gone out to bat for reciprocates, but you don't get nothing for nothing.

[00:34:10.710] - Speaker 2
Yeah, I would probably say before you take money, before you take anybody's time.

[00:34:15.520] - Speaker 1
I would say, or you extract value, won't have time.

[00:34:20.550] - Speaker 2
And so make it compelling and make it totally clear. Other than that, I think in this kind of business, in this kind of environment, people are really ambitious. They are kind of goal getters whatever. If it's distracting the interest or if it's complicated, they're not picking it up.

[00:34:52.490] - Speaker 1
So, Max, I'm looking at the time. We should probably bring things to a close quite soon. If somebody's listening, thinking I like the sound of those partner powers, or if they would like to get a little bit closer to you or connect with you, how would you like them to do that?

[00:35:07.970] - Speaker 2
Well, I guess great starting point is my website, Maxabic.com. I also have my partner power scorecard out there, which in essence leads people through 20 plus diagnostic questions and providing the score where people are at. I have also a couple of articles out there and a couple of very pointed videos, which some people may be helpful because I'm also totally clear it's not just applicable in the big four. It's almost in a way, that's how corporations work and what corporations want to see.

[00:35:58.130] - Speaker 1
Max, what's one thing you do now that you wish you'd started five years ago?

[00:36:03.600] - Speaker 2
The thing really, it's almost like and you hear it again and again and it applies. It's kind of keep building your list, start building your list way earlier and make sure that all the contacts you have assembled over here find their way into your list. I think that's kind of key. But yet again, how much can you handle as an individual? I think that's a permanent struggle as a solopreneur entrepreneur.

[00:36:37.970] - Speaker 1
I think that's absolutely true. This is the most common answer that I hear. And it's this whole thing of what's the best time to plant a tree 25 years ago? Absolutely. What's the next best time right now?

[00:36:51.080] - Speaker 2
Right now.

[00:36:51.750] - Speaker 1
Max, you've been an awesome guest. I've had great fun. It's been great to borrow into your business a little bit. I feel so yeah, it's just such a privilege for me to get to be so nosy. So thank you so much for inviting me.

[00:37:06.130] - Speaker 2
I really appreciate being here. Thank you very much.

[00:37:10.280] - Speaker 1
Thank you. Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe and join our Facebook group. You'll find a link in the show notes or visit Amplifyme. Fminsiders. Also, connect with me wherever you hang out. You'll find me on all the social platforms at Popgental. If you enjoyed the show, then I would love a five star review on Apple podcast it would make my day and if you shared the show with a friend you would literally make my golden list. My name's Bob gentril. Thanks to you for listening and I'll see you next week.

Thanks for listening!

It means a lot to me and to the guests. If you enjoyed listening then please do take a second to rate the show on iTunes.  Every podcaster will tell you that iTunes reviews drive listeners to our shows so please let me know what you thought and make sure you subscribe using your favourite player using the links below.

Episode Overview

Some are motivated by money and others are motivated by purpose.  Most of us fall somewhere in between.  

This week on the podcast I’m speaking about purpose, passion, making money, doing good, taking chances and living like life is short with Richie Norton. 

No matter what motivates you, you’ll find something to fire you up for the year in this very special episode.

About Richie Norton

Richie Norton is the award-winning, bestselling author of the book The Power of Starting Something Stupid (in 10+ languages) and Résumés Are Dead & What to Do About It.

In 2019, Richie was named one of the world’s top 100 business coaches by Dr. Marshall Goldsmith. He is an international speaker (including TEDx & Google Startup Grind) & serial entrepreneur.


Automatic Audio Transcription

Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription.  There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.  

Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show today. On the show, Bob is speaking with Richie Norton.

If I tell myself, how can I get that dream when I retire and you're going to work 40 years to have that dream when you retire, whether you get it or not is unknown and likely not because things change too much over 40 years. But if you say, how can I live my dream today and create work in a way that I'm paid, that helps me live it. Now you will think differently. Doesn't mean you have the answer yet, but your brain works like a calculator. If you tell yourself I can do this, you know what?

You're probably going to learn and figure out some way to do it somehow. If you tell yourself you can't do it, it's not true that you can't necessarily, but it is true that your brain is going to stop thinking about it. So by asking a better question, how can I do this thing without that bad thing happening in this amount of time? It can create space for your mind to be able to dwell on that while you're running or getting ready or working out or doing whatever.

And then you start coming up with Creative Solutions.

Hi there. And welcome back to Amplify The Personal Brand Entrepreneurship. My name is Bob Gentle, and every week I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. If you're new to the show, take a second right now to subscribe and whichever player you use. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, make sure to click the new follow option in the top right in the app. That way, Apple will queue me up every time I post a new episode. And that way we both win.

So before I jump into introducing this week's guest, just a quick reminder that after nearly 200 of these interviews, I've learned a thing or two about what makes business work online. And it turns out success doesn't leave clues. And I want to offer you at least a partial map. So jump over to my website and grab a copy of the Personal Brand Business Roadmap is everything you need to start, scale or just fix your personal brand businesses yours for free as a gift from me. And speaking of gifts this week, my guest is the author of The Power of Starting Something Stupid.

One of my favourite people on Earth lives in a crazy place where the time is all upside down. Richie Norton, welcome to the show.

I'm so excited to be here from Upside down land.

I love that it's 10:00 A.m. For you. It's 08:00 P.m. For me. Every time this happens, it's very hard to get my head around. So, yeah, how are you today?

I'm just waking up. You're going to sleep? Yes, I know. Hawaii is wonderful. It's nice and warm, but as we were talking pre show, it actually feels super cold, relatively speaking, because it's raining, but happy days are here, as they say. And I'm Super excited to be talking to you. Scotland, of all places, is my favourite place in the world and excited to visit there again soon and gosh wherever we live in the world, we can just make the most of it. I hope some places are harder to love than others, but I think everywhere you live you can make magic.

So it's a good day for the listener who doesn't know you. Why don't you start just by telling us a little bit about who you are, where you are and what your universe looks like?

Okay, you know what I'll do it chronologically. I'll do it real quick, but I grew up in San Diego, California. Born and raised, I lived in Brazil for a couple of years, actually, as a service missionary, I speak Portuguese, so when I visit Portugal, it's really fun too, to be able to speak Portuguese there. But I miss Brazil. Brazil's. Amazing. I now live in Hawaii. I'm married. I have four boys. Our youngest actually passed away. He caught pertussis or whooping cough as a baby. We've had foster children and we do our best to just love everyone where they are and do whatever we need to do to help and really, just to find ways to be happy, even when you're not happy.

Life's hard and our family experienced a lot of grief. My wife had a stroke at one point and lost her memory. My son got hit by a car and almost died. I go on and on and on, but these weird experiences in life gave me an interesting perspective on business, and that perspective is what I call Gavin's Law. My son that passed away is named Gavin and also my wife's brother, who had passed away at 21 in his sleep, was named Gavin. I call it Gavin's Law, which is live to Start to live, which means live to start those ideas that are pressing on your mind right now and you'll really start living.

Too many people just wait and wait and wait and they wonder why things aren't changing when in the same moment they're having these wonderful ideas. I know it's hard to get to push through the inertia and all that, but my work with my book, The Power of Starting Something Stupid, has been to help people feel and hear those inner promptings and to do something about them, but not to do them later, but to do them right now. And even if you don't have the time, education, experience or money that you can leverage existing resources, find people to help you and work around that.

So there's a little synopsis there, but I write. I have these books. I do coaching, consulting. I do courses and I realised a lot of people wanted to make physical products. I have a background in social entrepreneurship and helping people create and sell products to work their way out of poverty. And I'm working with all kinds of people, influencers and people in academia, professionals, big Fortune 100 companies where we actually work on all kinds of different projects, including making physical products, everything from the ideation phase to creating it, making it packaging, it warehousing.

It the whole deal, fulfilling it. At the end of the day, people say why you do so many different things. I even have a company where we edit videos for creators. And I go look to me, it's not many different things. Honestly, to me, Bob is one thing, and that is to give people their time back is to work in a way that creates time that takes time. And so all these different tangents that would look like to me, it's like one store and inside of different products and services to help you get what you want, feed your family and have the time and ability to be flexible and live the way you would hope to live.

So that's real quick background what I'm doing and kind of why I do it. And I hope that even in our conversation, we can talk about ways we can just help people figure it out. You never know what the future holds, but that's why we work in the present.

Well, figuring it out is something that I want to speak to you about today, and it's actually very rare that I have somebody on the show with an agenda. I have an agenda. Usually these things are simply like that person looks like they're doing something really cool. I want to know more about it. But this particular thing that I want to speak about today, I often find myself thinking about it, and I often think I wonder what Richie Norton would think. I mean, I think that a lot.

What would Richard Norton do? It's kind of my north star.

I like you. You're awesome.

But this particular thing, I think Richie is probably one of the few people that I could speak about this and have it mean something. And the question is, I work with people. You work with people all the time. And some people are super driven. They know where they're going, they know what they want to do. But sometimes you meet people that are incredible. You can tell that there's a magic in there. They have genius. But that genius doesn't seem to just spark. They don't seem to have direction.

There's no burning hunger. And if you look at anybody in the world is doing incredible things. They're driven, they know where they're going, they know what they're doing. But there are others. And there are many others that they just never quite seem to work out what they're for, who they're for, what lights them up. And I remember reading a book the other day, and it was a work of fiction. But this phrase, working in the board of minds leapt out at me, and it hasn't gone away.

I just keep thinking about all these people who are working in jobs in order to make a living so that they can buy food, pay rent to live so they can go to work to make a living. And it's just this endless hamster wheel that can't be fulfilling in the way that I'm imagining. So I guess I'm trying to come around to the question. You can probably sense what the question is. I probably should have written it down, but how can we help people? I mean, this question all began with the idea of Niching, how do you find your niche?

But it's actually bigger than that and says, you're a smart guy, and you can probably hear the question, is there anything jumping out for where you would go with this question?

I think it's what you're saying. First of all, people want to do things, but they don't do them, and then they don't really know why they don't do them, right? And there's intrinsic motivation, which is from the inside. There's extrinsic motivation, which is pressure from the outside or rewards that you could get from the outside. But then it starts to get complicated when you start bringing in like the way we think the way we were raised, you know, maybe we even have add. You know what I mean?

I don't know what it is or depression. At the end of the day. It all happens in our brain, right? And we either see opportunities or we don't. But it's really frustrating when we see an opportunity and we still don't do something about it when we want to. It's actually super. It might be easier to talk about an individual and then expand that to others rather than a group of people, and then see if it distils down to the individual. But whoever's listening to this, I hope you apply this.

There's something that Aristotle talked about. He called it final cause. He had these four causes, and I won't go through each one of them. But the idea was at the end of the day, an Acorn becomes an Oak tree, and the final cost of the Acorn over these four stages, eventually or whatever it is, is to become this Oak tree. And there's an example that people like to use too of a table. Let me give you this example. And then we can talk about the motivations of getting things done.

And then, maybe even more importantly, whether it actually needs to get done at all and stop punishing yourself when you're not doing it or also how to do things differently and think differently in a way that works for you. I personally believe that it's not actually like a goal. If it's something you already know how to do, that's just a task you're going to give yourself to. This is Richie Norton speaking, making things up right. To me. People just set goals beyond their current abilities. Otherwise, there's no stretching, you never grow, you never become something else.

So in that sense, it's not about getting out of your comfort zone, really, but expanding your comfort zone so far that your goals and dreams fit within. This is a very different way of thinking, because each time you set that goal outside, you might be stressed out about not doing it. When you picture yourself expanding your comfort zone to make that goal fit inside, even though it's in the same spot, you're unable to do things and think differently. Here's where I'm going with this final cost thing.

If somebody says, for example and I've read this example, but I'm going to apply it in different way. If someone says they want to build a table, they're going to go out and they're going to get either the wood or the metal or the parts or whatever they need to do to build the table. They have the materials. Somebody's going to the actor, the person that does the actions, someone is going to put it together. The table is going to be built, and eventually the final cause of that table is going to be dinner with your family.

Let's just use that as an example.


What's interesting, though, is this is where it gets like, I don't know, something to think about. If you're trying to accomplish something and you tell yourself your goal is to build a table, you're going to build a table or buy a table, something's going to happen. But if the real goal, the goal beyond the goal was the dinner with your family. If that was in essence, the whole purpose of this goal for a table, then, in essence, you don't need the table at all. You can go to McDonald's, you can go to a food truck, you can do Uber eats or whatever delivery systems going on over there in Scotland, right?

You can do something else and then you go, what's the purpose is it a dinner with my family? Is it by myself? Am I bringing guests over? Is it a legacy table I want to have here for 100 years? Or wouldn't it be more fun just to go to the park? The reason I say this weird example about final cause is because when you begin with the finality of your goal, then it makes all the means to get there insignificant, because there are millions of means that makes a lot of sense.

But here's another perspective, and I guess this is probably a more articulate way of asking essentially the same question or introducing the same topic. If I take anybody who is incredible, Pat, somebody I know, you know quite well. So he's probably a very good example. If you drop me into Pat Flynn's business right now and say, Bob, run this, I would destroy it probably within a week because I'm not Pam Flynn. I haven't become the person that I would need to be. I haven't had the experiences that I would need to have to be able to run that business effectively, not just run that business, but to be the personality that expresses himself out to the world the way Pat does.

And a lot of people, they want to jump to the end, but they don't want to go through this process of becoming. And it's like this whole idea of the quest that at the beginning of the quest, there was an urge. But at the end of the quest, you probably end up somewhere completely different. But the winning was in the questing. So what is this urge? What was Pat Flynn's Genesis? I guess what motivated him. And why doesn't everyone have that?

Well, I would say Pat would probably tell you not to become Pat Flynn. He would say, be yourself. From what I understand, he was an architect, and eventually that job didn't work out. And so he was thrown into entrepreneurship, and he worked his way his way through. But you know what's interesting, though, is whether he had become an entrepreneur or not, whether he became a podcast or not, whether we started creating products or not, one thing built on the other, but the thing that stayed for my outside looking in and also knowing him and talking to him, the thing that stayed the same was his focus on his desire to be there for his family and to have flexibility of time and income.

So that's what I'm saying about final causes. The final cause is flexibility with his time and family and the income from multiple sources passively, possibly. So once you understand that it doesn't matter what you do means don't necessarily create the ends. But the ends do help you dictate what means you're going to use to support it. Let me give you one more example. Like the quest example someone sends you on a quest. And a lot of these quests, you might not even know what you're doing.

You're just kind of there, and hopefully you'll make it back or get this thing or do that. It's real life. It's also fantasy. It's all these things. But if someone says, what's the quickest, fastest way to reach my goal or the goal beyond the goal, someone today might tell you, go take a personality test. They might tell you, go take a strengths test. And unfortunately, you would take that test, and it would tell you who you are, what you should do. And if it said, you're really good at digging ditches and you have a really good personality for that.

And that's your strength. Then you would keep digging ditches and you would wish you weren't digging ditches. But someone told you, you're really good at that. So you do that's the danger. Maybe there are some nice qualities of a personality test or strength test, but what they don't include necessarily is the ability for a human to learn exactly.

And for the comfort zones to change. And yeah, discovery for discovery.

And so I like to say this if you match here's, also the challenge that you find, too, if you tell yourself you're going to go find yourself, you could be wandering forever. And that actually might be the greatest journey of all right. And they always say, hey, I didn't find myself until I came home after all these years. And home was a new place because I saw it differently. There's lots of poems about that kind of stuff. Right at the end of every movie, I'm going to use a Castle example, a lot of castles in Scotland.

I use this example a lot. But I like to say, Build the Castle, then the moat. Not every Castle has a moat. I understand. But if you're going to build a moat, there's usually something that it's protecting. The challenge is most people today in the 21st century, and this is caused by 200 years of the Industrial Revolution, more or less. Well, 200 years ago, right at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution post and how we work today because before it was all just farming and then we moved to the cities.

And now this affected our time, management and created ways that we work. And here we are. Even though we can be living on a farm and doing work, you would have to be normally doing in a city, we still work in a way that looks like we need it in an office. I say that because even with what's happened recently, with the pandemic, things have changed dramatically. So people will start with a moat and the moat is work and they never get out of the moat.

They never built the Castle or maybe it's there and they just look at it and they never walk towards it. They never go across the bridge or whatever. But if you start with the Castle literally start with the dream. This is the example. Start with the final cause, and then you build a strategic moat and an economic moat around it to protect it. Then in that way, you can decide how you get paid and how you work, supports your dream as opposed to leading towards it later.

So now we've actually come to the question that I should have asked you.


Which is how do you pick the dream? That's good, because I think that's for a lot of people that's the thing is if they could just pin on something and say, this is the thing that lights me up. This is the thing I want to spend the next 20 years moving towards that's.

Really good. I'm going to start super practical because most people get really high in the clouds with this. But I'm going to get really practical. If you need money next week, then you're dreaming goal is to figure out a way to make money, to pay your mortgage and feed your family next week period. That's the way it works. And then you go, Well, I have a bigger picture drain that later. I'm going to do all these things. Fair enough. But for now that you can ask a better question.

I'm a fan of the answer to your question. Really is I always tell myself, and I've learned this from a mentor of mine. Ask a better question, get a better answer. And this isn't feedback to you. This is like because you're asking good questions every time you ask a question, not you, just me collective us. You get an answer based upon the question. So if I tell myself, how can I get let's pretend I already have the dream for a second. If I tell myself, how can I get that dream when I retire, then you're going to work 40 years to have that dream when you retire, whether you get it or not is unknown and likely not because things change too much over 40 years.

But if you say, how can I live my dream today and create work in a way that I'm paid that helps me live it now you will think differently. Doesn't mean you have the answer yet, but your brain works like a calculator. If you tell yourself I can do this, you know what? You're probably going to learn and figure out some way to do it somehow. If you tell yourself you can't do it, it's not true that you can't necessarily. But it is true that your brain is going to stop thinking about it.

So by asking a better question, how can I do this thing without that bad thing happening in this amount of time? It could create space for your mind to be able to dwell on that while you're running or getting ready or working out or doing whatever. And then you start coming up with creative solutions.

Yeah. You pay attention to things and they start to resolve.

So the reason I brought the timeliness thing is because if I tell myself I have to manage my time in a certain way, I might be really efficient at it, but it might not be effective in getting me my goal. So if I prioritise getting money for next week, sure, that's good. But if my goal was just to be, I don't know, laying on the beach in the Bahamas, that doesn't really help me get there, necessarily. And those things are totally unrelated. Or maybe they are. Maybe you have to pay off debt first and you start going down this rabbit hole.

But if you were to say, how can I be swimming in the Bahamas with my family right now and create work that helps me get there? Then paying your bills off next week is very essential and important, but it's a bump in the road on your way to getting to that bigger picture dream.


So the idea that would be to take that big picture dream, break it into smaller, more manageable parts and then work on them or rather prioritise your purpose rather than prioritise random priorities.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

But I know I didn't answer your question. I know about how do you choose your purpose and your dream, but keep going, keep going, keep going.

But I think the truth is there isn't an answer to that question, but I think it's a little bit like every time you look at the sun, you have to look slightly to the left or the right, and eventually you look around it long enough you'll find an answer that's close enough to the truth.

That's good. That's beautiful. Yes. In the small you go because, look, we don't live in the future. We live today. We also don't live in the past, like the past may have got us to become who we are and think the way we think. But everything we do moving forward is based on who we think we're going to become or what we're going to do or what we're trying to avoid in the future, because the past is the past. So it's all about future thinking. But acting in the present.

And it sounds like a Riddle. But like, this happens every day without us thinking. So as far as like, well, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? That question is interesting because you could say today I'm going to go for a walk or I'm going to send this email or I'm going to do this thing. There's nothing wrong with that. But if it's aimless, then it's more based on just trying to get through the day.


And if someone really doesn't know, I have no idea what's going to happen in the future. But a big dream doesn't look like details. A big dream looks like an outcome. So I would say this. Let me use it. I'll use an example of Jeff Bezos. He would ask himself when he decided to start Amazon. He asked himself because he had to quit his job on Wall Street to run off and do this thing. And people told me it was a bad idea. They said it was a good idea, but not for someone who already had a good job.

Essentially, I remember thinking.

Who's going to buy books online, right?

It's bizarre, he said, Well, I regret it when I'm 80. So one of the things you can do is ask yourself when I'm sitting in a rocking chair looking over whatever. When I'm 80, what would I regret not doing? This helps you decide in many ways what your dreams are and how you want to live. And essentially it will come down to probably a lot of things about love and family and forgiveness and being nice to people. But when it gets to actual business and getting things done, people will create ideas and dreams.

You know what I found when I wrote The Power throwing something stupid. People came to me with their stupid ideas every day. Still, which is awesome. I love it. That's why I wrote it. But I was surprised when I would talk to so many people with their stupid ideas, because even if the idea was great and they could make money with it, and they did make money with it, it wasn't their real objective. They were starting something to escape one thing and to eventually have this other thing, keep them busy so they could one day eventually get what they really wanted.

So they say, I want to do this thing. Okay, cool. Well, let's do it. Let's go. Let's go make a million dollars. Yeah, why not? But then what? Oh, it's so I can have more time with my family and we can travel the world together. Okay, hold up. How long is this going to take? I had a guy told me he had a 15 year old and no 15 year old and a 13 year old, and he had this dream, and he says it's going to take him five years to do it.

And I go way. So you're an executive making $250,000 a year. You're going to leave your job to do this thing. It's going to take you five years of grinding when your kids out of the house and the other one's, 18, leaving the house, he's like, oh, I'm like, yeah, people don't think through it. So if you just say our dream is to travel the world, travel the world. I know I'm oversimplifying travel the world and build a business around it. And I oversimplify the beginning on purpose to break the mould of but what?

But I have to. But my parents will say, but what about my kids school. But what about this at the end? It's like, yeah, that will always be there, my friend. You think that grinding for five years that's going to disappear? No same problem.

So what was the answer in that situation?

Well, it was easy. He wanted to start a gym, and he was going to need two gyms, and he was going to need to be there every day. And I said, Who's going to unlock it in the morning and lock it up at night? And he said he was a micromanager, and he would. And I go, look, man, you can do a gym. This is prepondermic, too. Who cares? It's going to make tonnes of money. It's going to do whatever you want to do. But if your real goal is to have freedom of time, you need a manager doing that for you, don't you?

Or let's get really creative. Here one of those gyms where it unlocks and locks itself with a key card by the members that are using it 24/7. There's so many different ways of thinking it. That's why Final Cause is so important. If he says, my goal is to have time with my family. Therefore, I'm going to start a gym that will not give me time with my family. He already failed before he started, even if it makes millions of dollars, because that wasn't the real goal.

But he can still have the same thing. Steven Covey would say, begin with the end in mind. He did not say begin with means in mind.

Yeah. So what's interesting there is, actually, it's just some mechanical adjustment.

There you go.

That makes perfect sense.

It's a series of questions. What do you want to do? I don't know, but I know that once you know who you want to become, you'll know what to do.

I think what's really useful in this conversation is lots of people just know they want more. They want different. And they may have a clear idea of how they could get there, but they're going to have to do some hard things on the way. And unless they have confidence that they can reach that end goal, it's often very unlikely that they'll do those hard things.

That's true.

And that's why I think that working through it like this is really useful. Breaking it down. Actually, this is a dream, but this dream is achievable, but it means you're going to have to do this. You're going to have to do this. All these different steps. The business owners and entrepreneurs are used to backtracking or reverse engineering.

The hard thing with smart people is that smart people instantly ask themselves how that stops the gears completely.

I put my hand up. This probably helped me for the best part of a decade because I'm somebody that needs to have a master plan before you'll take action.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with the master plan. There's nothing wrong with asking how. But when you ask how makes a big difference. How can I dream? If every time I dream, I ask how it is impossible to dream. Asking how it is impossible to dream. Asking how? Because you are thinking how from your current state of mind and your dream lives outside of your state of mind. You don't know how my client longtime client, Ben Hardy, wrote a book with Dan Sullivan called Who Not How? And his answer to that is simply don't ask how.

Find a who. That's how businesses work. How do you send a rocket to the moon, hire engineers?

I asked Daniel Priestley how do you manage to launch all these different businesses? How do you manage to maintain attention across them all? And he said that I launched new businesses like criminals, Rob banks. I get okay, what am I going to need? I'm going to need a driver. I just puts the team together. And then he just stands back and lets them run.

Yes. What I want to do in the future, it's a hard question, but you can get within usually ten years is too far. Usually 40 years is too far to think usually you can do it. But I found that two, maybe three. But I, like, two years is a good timeline. What would have to happen in the next two years for me to feel like I'm progressing, and then you go after that. Architects don't build buildings, they draw them. General contractors do not pick up Hammers. If they don't want to, they sub everything out.

This is how entrepreneurs work. Okay, if you think, like an owner operator, you're instantly going to think how because you're going to think I have to do it. But if you think, like an owner, that never crosses your mind because you're going to have who's to do it. And then, of course, a smart person is going to say who's, my who and How's my how and we go along in circles. But none of that actually matters. Let's go all the way back to the beginning conversation when you think about final cause, why are you doing this project in the first place?

Oh, I'm doing it so I can have freedom of time. Well, then you better not put yourself in the middle of that because you will have less time. Most people start businesses, entrepreneurs, lifestyle, entrepreneurs to get their time back and they lose their freedom of time in their business. And they go, yeah, but I have to be here and you go, really? Because the most scalable business is when someone comes to buy it. If you're still there, they might pay you. But they're going to make you become their employee for a year or two.

It's actually better if you're not personally involved every day. It can actually be more scalable, more profitable and more business savvy. And you have more freedom of time if you build from your actual goal and not from your sub goals. The sub goals are means to creating the ends, build from the ends, not the means.

Honestly, I think that's probably a lovely place to end it. I think this has been really an unusual conversation for the podcast, but that was quite intentional.

I love you, man. You're so good to me. You're so fun to talk to. Oh, my gosh.

I think the one thing I would maybe like to ask is what's the question that I should have asked? Because I sense you know where I'm going with this, but you can only ask the questions that I ask you. No question.

I don't know. But you could have gotten super personal and asked about a project you're working on, and we could have worked through it. But we can do that offline.

The thing is, if we spoke on a year ago, that would have been super pertinent. Actually, I have very clear vision. Now I know where I'm going. I'm very motivated to do it, but I feel so lucky in that.

What got you there. What got you there asking the questions? Yeah, that's it. I think that's it.

And more importantly. And this for me, was the game changer that you can't have all the answers. You can't know the meaning of life. You just can't. It's just impossible. We're here on this planet in order to be ignorant to the purpose of life. It's not our job. Our job is to take action and our job is to be there for the people around us and just grow as much as we possibly can. I love that purpose and mission resolves over time. The more action you take, the more purpose and mission resolves into clarity.

But the action is the price.

Yeah, that's good. I agree. I think a couple of things people need to remember money and meaning can go together. Too many people think they have to waste their time making money so they can eventually have meaning or that they have to use all their time making meaning and not have money and rely on other people. That is lack of asking a better question. How can my meaning and money go together? And then once you have a purpose, like what I do, what do I want to be in the next couple of years?

What are some big projects I want to do? You come up with them and then I try to prioritise my personal stuff by my people. You know, things I want to do to play my profession. And then these priorities are around my ultimate purpose. They're not priorities toward a purpose, a picture, a timeline and your goals at the end. So you're going to work or work to get there. What if you just took that goal and move it to the front of the timeline? Because the effect, the essence, the sake of what you're doing that actually can happen regardless of money.

So you build around that you're more likely and faster to get that goal by working that way than pretending you're going to get there someday.

Yeah. And I guess the final thought I have on purpose is that every time you get close to it, it just moves away again.

Yeah. You want something else? Things change.

Yeah. It's like a will of the Wisp. It's always on the horizon.

I love you said the night the coolest thing.

You just have to keep moving towards it and trust.

Yeah, we're dynamic people. You can have many purposes at the same time. Yeah, that's okay. I like it.

Richie Norton, you have been an awesome guest. I am so grateful for your time. If you are over in Scotland soon, it would be great to catch up. I know you're coming next week.

Yeah. So excited. I hope to see it would be amazing.

Yeah, but for now, have a great day. Thank you so much for your time.

I know it's been a huge honour. Thanks so much, Bob. Really appreciate it. You're a great interviewer. That was really fun. Thank you.

Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe and join our Facebook group. You'll find a link in the show notes or visit Amplifyme Fminsiders. Also connect with me wherever you hang out, you'll find me on all the social platforms at Popchantal. If you enjoyed the show, then I would love a five star review on Apple podcast. It would make my day. And if you shared the show with a friend, you would literally make my golden list. My name is Pop. Gentle, thanks to you for listening and I'll see you.

See you next week. Bye.

Thanks for listening!

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Episode Overview

Back in the 90’s people thought the internet wasn’t relevant to them.  That looks hilarious now.  Well crypto and blockchain are a bit like that now.

This week I’m joined by Joseph Bojang from Life. Money. Crypto. And we’re going to explore what all this means for every day folks, creators and how you can get a piece of the action.

About Joseph

Joseph Bojang is on a new mission to help educate business owners and individuals about crypto and blockchain technology. He’s the owner of Web Champs, a digital advertising company dedicated to helping clients grow online. He's a sought-after advertising expert and routinely handles 6 and 7-figure budgets for clients who advertise online.


Automatic Audio Transcription

Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription.  There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.  

Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show today. On the show, Bob is speaking with Joseph Bojang.

I make a living off of these companies, so I'm not bashing them. I'm just saying these are the facts as I see them. These companies, the people that get rich from Facebook growing are not the users. The people that get rich are the investors. And I have no problem with that. With cryptocurrency, the people that actually become wealthy is everyone that's involved. So Bitcoin goes anyone that invested actually becomes more wealthy. So it's even a paradigm shift of what these crypto technologies, the blockchain other use cases are allowing.

Hi there and welcome back to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneurship. My name is Bob Gentle, and every week I'm joined by incredible and inspiring people who share what makes their business work. If you're new to the show, take a second right now to subscribe and whichever player you use. And if you're listening on Apple podcast, make sure you click that new follow up in the top right page. That way Apple will queue me up every time I post a new episode. And that way we both win.

Before I jump into introducing this week's guest. Just a quick reminder again that after nearly 200 of these interviews, I've learned a thing or two about what makes business work online. And it turns out that success does leave clues. And I want to offer that map to you. So jump over to my website and grab your copy of the Personal Brand business roadmap is everything you need to start, scale or just fix your personal brand business, and it's yours for free as a gift from me.

So this week we are speaking with my friend Joseph BoJack. Joseph is a super smart, multi talented, personal brand entrepreneur, and there's honestly, so many places we're going to go tonight. So Joseph, for the person who doesn't know you want it, you start just by a welcome to the show and B, tell us a little bit about who you are, where you are and what you do.

Bob Gentle, thank you so much for having me on the show again. It was great to talk to you and be on your podcast earlier this year. We got to talk a little bit about marketing, and that's primarily what I do. Started my company in 2015, and since then I've focused on marketing and primarily digital advertising on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and doing a lot of Google as well. And over the years, like any business owner, you love the business you create. But things change, and I always say things change when you change.

So a lot of what I've been doing recently is actually getting into cryptocurrency and finding ways to actually add that to my business. But in doing that, it's been interesting to actually create a new brand as well.

I think the reason I was quite keen to borrow into this is a lot of people get quite fixated on what they're about. And I think it's important to be clear about what you're about, but you don't have to be about one thing. I think it was Chris Tucker, who has been a big mentor for me. He said that your personal brand is the last business you'll ever need, but it doesn't have to mean you'll always do the same thing. You build the audience, you build the connection, and the connection comes with you wherever you go and whatever you do.

And you'd be quite courageous about stepping out of the ad world. Not out, perhaps, but maybe straddling the ad world and other new interests. So that was why I wanted to speak to you. But how has that been going so far?

Yeah. I think it's something that a lot of my customers have had before. And you'll see that they have their business that they're doing, and they're either trying to create a new stream of income or they're trying to do something different. And it can be very difficult to understand what to actually keep under the same umbrella. And that was a process that I was actually going through. Was I've been building this brand for my company, being known for marketing, funnels and advertising. But then when I started thinking about adding cryptocurrency, I struggled a bit to actually bring it in.

And like you were saying, Chris Tucker, you can bring this along with you. But part of that, just being honest, was understanding how long I would be into this idea of cryptocurrency. And I laugh a little bit because I'm thinking if I were to make $2 billion in a day, what would I continue doing? And I'm kind of joking there. But part of it is I have interest. I have hobbies, and I usually go deep in them. But when creating something, that's the question I was going through.

Do I actually want to include this in a brand that's already known for something else? And people are going to my YouTube channel for marketing videos or following me on Instagram for marketing. And would they be confused if I started creating crypto content? So that was part of the process that I've started going through. And I probably would have made a few decisions differently now. But creating a new brand for the crypto content, I think, has actually freed me to make content in a way that I don't normally do it.

So I would say that's probably been an upside to creating totally different social handles, a new website, a new YouTube page.

And I guess part of me wonders if you really needed to do that. But certainly I can see it. Probably it gives you this comfort blanket of you're not to use a Ghostbusters analogy crossing the streams. You're not cross contaminating audiences or confusing people, I guess. But what was your rationale for just not continuing with the same audience, but bringing in the new content rather than setting up new profiles for everything.

Yeah. So part of it was just an understanding I have about how algorithms work, and for anyone that's not in the marketing world, but you're marketing something. An algorithm is really just the way the machine is going to categorise your content. So if you post on Facebook a picture of your beautiful kids, you might see that there's tonnes of likes and comments and hearts on it. But then let's say that you post something that is not as endearing to people and they don't respond to it. They don't like it, they don't engage.

Well, then you might start posting particular content to get more people to react. So the thing that makes this happen and makes you do the things you do online is based on these algorithms. And one thing that I noticed is that algorithms really start to categorise you based off of the content you've made, and it begins to understand your account. So there's been a lot of changes on Instagram. I didn't have a really big following on TikTok already. And with YouTube, I wanted to start getting into more shorts.

I believe, Bob, one of the best things you can do is create a lot of content consistently with high quality, of course. But I wanted to create so much content in this new vein that I didn't want people to ask, well, do you still do marketing? And I also wanted it to kind of have a different feel. So as I think about branding, and I know you've said certain things like this before, but there are colours that I wanted to go along with it. And there's a feel that I wanted to go along with it, that the marketing content wasn't the same.

And there's this concept of ugly marketing. And one thing about it is in this crypto world, a lot of people look like scammers, and you really can't tell what's true and everyone's saying, get rich quick, and you can't really find the information you want because these algorithms are really promoting a lot of I would say this poor quality content. So I wanted to create something that wasn't as polished as I normally make. But at the same time, I wanted it to have a certain look, a certain feel that when people see it, it comes across really with true authenticity of this is how I am.

I'm not going to hype you up. I'm going to explain these things that I think people want to understand and the amount of content I wanted to create. I didn't want that to interfere with the other marketing content.

That makes a lot of sense. The algorithm I hadn't thought of that. That makes so much sense that you need to if you want to get any kind of traction, the algorithm is extremely important. And if you're confusing the algorithm, never mind your people. You're going to struggle to get traction. Additionally, one thing you kind of alluded to is in the crypto space. There's a lot of risky information, and having trust with your audience is of singular importance and holding that. So being seen to be serious about it and not being another dabbler is probably really important.

So those are two really good justifications for doing it the way you did it that I hadn't considered.

Well, thank you, Bob.

Speaking about the information side of things, crypto is not new, not by any means, but it is new for a lot of people. So anybody listening, who's thinking crypto? Is that something to do with cryptography or Second World War code breaking machines or what's cryptocurrency, Joseph? Yeah, we didn't even say cryptocurrency. We just said crypto.

We just said crypto. So what I'll do is I'll just give, like, a big overarching view. And one thing I would say to anyone listening. So no matter if you're in the marketing, if you are an accountant, if you're a lawyer, if you have a business now and you're building a brand, I wouldn't necessarily say, do what I'm doing. I just tend to have a lot of marketing background and capacity to create a lot of content. But if you have a business and you serve people a service, I would consider getting into this field.

And I think as I started explaining why, I think it'll give you at least a head start on people that might be around you that aren't offering services now. So as an example, if you're an accountant, a lot of people are making money with crypto, and they're trying to find the best way to handle that for tax purposes. A lot of companies are being onboarded now and looking to accept cryptocurrency and are not exactly sure how to code for that. If you're a lawyer, there's a lot of developers, a lot of companies that actually need smart contracts, either for what's happening or what will start happening with smart contracts and real estate.

What will start happening with other businesses as they start using smart contracts. So there's a lot of different things that can happen here. And I know just over the past year, the explosiveness of the industry is huge, and it's at the very beginning. So I wanted to put that out there as just one thing for you to start thinking about. It is still very early. But now I'll kind of give a view. So if you've never heard about just this industry of cryptocurrency, I like to explain it just by using our normal money.

So when you think of a dollar or a pound or a Euro or yen, whatever your currency is, you can take that. I'll just use dollars, because that's what I use where I live. You can take that dollar. I can give it to a business. I can put it in a bank. I can exchange it with a friend. But that system that I exchanged that dollar on, meaning that it might go into the bank, or it might go to the friend. Whenever we talk about crypto, that dollar equals a cryptocurrency.

But that cryptocurrency sits on top of the system that we call the blockchain for us. That would be your bank. That would be the friend. That would be those things. So you need a blockchain to actually move the cryptocurrency around. That's the most basic it can get. What starts happening a little bit more is that we have these other type of products within the cryptocurrency world that get very confusing and very fast. You might have heard of something called an NFP. Now an NFP sits on top of a blockchain, but it's not necessarily a currency without going too far.

Some really cool use cases for an NFT would be something that GaryVee is using. So if your audience has heard of Gary Vee, what he's done is he sold something that's called an NFT. And I can explain what that is here in a second. But he sold something called an NFP, and he's created a community. So people already trust him for his brand because he's known as a marketer. He's known as a businessman, he's known as an investor. He's done all these things. So when he got into cryptocurrency, there's all these folks that followed him for what he already did and wanted to be a part of this new project.

He was doing. A lot of those people that got in and bought his NFT, became a part of his community, were able to go to his events, were able to participate in certain things that he's doing because they're a part of his community. So one cool aspect of an NFT is that if you have a community, you could start doing something called tokenization. And that tokenization gives people value for being in your community. But over time, that value is something they could sell down the road.

If you are a soccer or football fan, what you'll find is a lot of these football clubs are actually doing the same type of thing, whether it's PSG or Manchester, they're all kind of creating these NFPs or these fan tokens and allowing their fans to buy them. And then there's many other use cases. Bob, I could probably keep talking about it, but I want people to know that spending a little bit of time now to actually understand it and start getting into crypto, understanding what a cryptocurrency is, which we kind of alluded to.

But it's just currency that is cryptography created now that can be exchanged between friends, between businesses. But understanding these basics actually gives people a head start in what's to come. And I think the future of it is very bright. And I think this is a great way for people to start jumping on this train.

I think having observed the industry for quite a long time now, I think anybody listening, you do need to start paying attention to this. It isn't going away. And I think a lot of people thought that it was going to go away. The governments were going to ban it. What we're finding is the opposite. Governments are jumping in bed with it. Governments are building it into their own economic infrastructure. It's starting in the developing world, but the momentum is pretty much unassailable. I would think so. If you're somebody who doesn't understand anything about cryptocurrency, you're probably going to need to address this sooner or later.

And as you're describing at the moment, Joseph, there are huge opportunities within the crypto space outside of actually putting your money down and investing in cryptocurrencies simply the expertise that you can bring to bear. It really is an industry at the stage where even the person with a little bit of information can find some huge advantages because the majority of people have no information.

Yeah, and one thing to that, Bob, I don't always start with the investment aspects. I usually start with the use case, meaning that businesses are using blockchain technology and they're using cryptocurrency for more than just get rich, quick schemes. But I do want to kind of give a bit of a background into why I actually started paying attention to this and why I wanted to give it my energy, my time, my resources. I started my business and I had goals that I wanted to achieve. And over the years, I started to reach those goals and got more coaching, got more mentoring.

And one of the things someone said to me is whenever you have a business, you want to take the profits that you're making from your business and start to invest them ideally and reinvest those profits into real estate. And I recently spoke to probably a mutual friend that some of your audience might know as well. And we were talking about this idea of business and maybe some real estate or some investments. Now, real estate is not something I had time for. I didn't want to go out and look at apartments or look at condos or look at homes and figure out how to buy them.

I just don't have the time for that. But I started understanding that if I could find either another business or another investment, I could actually reinvest the profits from my marketing business into that, because ultimately, I do want more time freedom. And as I started going down the road of investments, there's just a lot that I didn't know. So I really didn't understand the monetary system in my country. I didn't understand a lot about how banks worked. I just knew I put my money in the bank, and then at the end of the year, I made .02% but I knew inflation was going up.

I knew the banks were making a lot of money off my bank or off my money that was in the bank. It never bothered me. And I never really understood it. But the more I started understanding what my money was doing, the more I started to look at cryptocurrency. And one story I love to tell is of Peter Till. I don't know how it is where you are, Bob, but here in America, we have something called the SEC. Now the SEC is kind of governs who can do what, who can invest in things early.

So let's say when Facebook is around or other companies are around and they want to offer something called the security. And that security just means I can invest in this company. And I believe I will get my investment will have a profit years from now in America, certain people can do this. And how it's been defined is if you made a certain amount of money, you could be an accredited investor. But if you didn't make a certain amount of money, you couldn't be. And one thing that's wrong with this is that just because you make a certain level of money doesn't mean you have certain knowledge.

So there's people that one person I love that talks about this is Tom Billyu from Impact Theory. He says at one point he didn't make a lot of money. And then all of a sudden, he made multiple millions of dollars, and he was able to be an accredited investor but didn't know anything about investing. So there's something up with that law that really prevents people from getting ahead. And when I mean getting ahead, here's the quick example. So one gentleman, Peter Thiel, invested $500,000 as an angel investor to Facebook in 2004.

So $500,000, he was able to invest. The public really wasn't able to invest until 2012. So we have Peter Till, who puts in $500,000 in 2004. In 2012, Facebook becomes public, they open it up so people can buy stocks that year. In 2012, when Peter Till took out his money, he became a billionaire. He netted over $1 billion off of a $500,000 angel investment. Now, that is something that normal people like me cannot do. When I understood that cryptocurrency was my ability or my opportunity to start investing like the Peter Tills.

That's when I started to understand it from an investment perspective that later led me to all the other just regular business and real world use cases. And we can talk about that as well. But that's really why I'm so into it is because I see this as it is speculative, right? Everything in crypto could go to zero. Yeah, it could go to zero. But I believe it's highly unlikely. I believe it's highly unlikely. But even with that in mind, I never invest more than I can lose.

But if someone had invested in Bitcoin years ago or they had got to start it and they just leave their money, I say you invest in Bitcoin, you leave it like a five year savings plan. Don't worry about it. You're going to see your returns are going to be similar to that of what the Peter Tills and the rich people are able to get, because unlike a Facebook, unlike a TikTok, unlike Instagram, unlike all of these social media companies or these tech companies that we can't invest in until they go public and they use our data by us donating, I make a living off of these companies, so I'm not bashing them.

I'm just saying these are the facts as I see them. These companies, the people that get rich from Facebook growing are not the users. The people that get rich are the investors. And I have no problem with that. With cryptocurrency, the people that actually become wealthy is everyone that's involved. So if Bitcoin goes, anyone that invest it actually becomes more wealthy. So it's even a paradigm shift of what these crypto technologies, the blockchain, the other use cases are allowing. I'll say one more thing with the fan token that I mentioned earlier.

So let's say that you're a Manchester United fan or Liverpool or whatever football club you like. Let's say that they have a fan token. Now, there is a difference between a token or a coin, but for this example, just think of them as the same. So let's say they come out with which they have come out with a fan token for Manchester United. And if you purchased this token or purchase their tokens, what could happen is that they could say anyone that actually has this token now owns a certain percentage of our club or get certain benefits that you can come back after a game or you can get discounts on your membership, or you can get exclusive access to these video calls that we're going to do with the players.

The cool thing about it is that okay, that's fun. We can kind of do that now. But the thing that you can do with these tokens on a blockchain is the person that owns it, can resell it. So if I own it and it goes up in value because our football club is doing great over the next five years, something that I bought for $20 might be worth $500. And I get to decide, do I want to keep my steak in this club and all the benefits I get?

Or do I want to cash out and sell that to someone else that wants to buy now? And the benefit is everyone that's involved actually benefits from that. And that's unlike a lot of the systems we have now. So I think as people start to get their head around this and understand what's coming, they can actually position themselves, position their businesses and even their brands, which is why I've been putting a lot of time into this is one to get this message, this education out there for people to understand that this is coming, it's not going anywhere.

Get involved if you can start learning, but they can do the same thing, not saying you have to change your career, but you might even look at your skill set in the crypto world because there's a huge need for it. And I see developers and marketers are moving over to this industry and getting paid more because there's not enough. So I know that I went long there, but I do get passionate about this potentially being the biggest thing that I will see in my lifetime as far as the opportunity for a new asset class to replace existing systems that we have, and people that have as much as $1 are able to get involved.

And I just think it's amazing.

I think around the entertainment space, there's a lot of potential. I know a couple of people, Mark Schaefer and Joe Pelosi, they've both gifted me their own cryptocurrency tokens through rally. I haven't really looked to see what I can do with them yet because there wasn't very many of them. To be honest, it wasn't that generous a gift. But I'm grateful, guys, if you're listening. But yeah, I think one thing that stuck out to me was Peter Thiel when he made his $500,000 investment. He would have known this Facebook.

It's not a certainty. There's no guarantee this company isn't going to have a new competitor and just get wiped out. You know what? Everyone might just have left Twitter instead. So, yeah, you never make an investment you can't afford to lose that. Would it be in Peter Thiel's perspective if this all goes? That's okay. I think the difference is with cryptocurrency, and this is the problem. At the moment, there's no sandbox for major investing. There is a sandbox for crypto. You can start playing, as you said, with $1 with $10 and you can learn how it works.

You can learn how to play safely and build your competence and your fluency with the products and the landscape and then become a sensible citizen of this space. Anybody who just jumps in with $500,000 and throws it all down on Ethereum deserves to lose it if they've made no effort to understand the platform.

Yeah. And Bob, one thing to that, I think that's a good caution. And people that are investing in any type of tech startup or company knows that a lot of these companies, 90, 80% of them are going to fail. So I know about his Facebook investment because that's amazing. I'm sure there is 20 other ones that failed that he lost money on. But this one was the one that went well. And I think this is just a great example for people who are interested in any type of cryptocurrency as an investment.

And there's many other types of ways. Facebook changed its name to Meta. So there's a lot of Meta universities, and all of this stuff is new, and everything is so new right now that we really don't know where things will land. And it's similar to when the Internet was here. And I think a lot of people mention is that the adoption rate of the Internet in 1997 was huge. And cryptocurrency is like just blowing that out of the water, like its growth rate. And many people every day are getting online.

And it's not that you have to play big. But like you're saying, start building your confidence, start understanding what's happening around you, figure out ways that maybe you might even start to accept cryptocurrency. And that's one thing that I plan to do over next year is find ways for people that buy marketing content or courses that I have is how actually, can I incentivize people to get started with crypto by giving them a ridiculous deal if they buy this course with crypto? And one that's a way for me to set people up to get them into the world.

But then making the price so ridiculous that if they feel like they lost their money or they did something wrong, they wouldn't care. And for me, that's how I'm thinking about it, because I do think the people that don't get involved will be disappointed eight years from now. But for those businesses out there, start thinking about that because you will attract people that are looking for that. And this doesn't even include all of the use cases around the world where people are able to now secure their identity because it's on the blockchain because they live in countries where their printing is horrible.

They might not have the documents. The government just comes in and says, you don't own this home and they take it away. But a lot of these use cases now, how do we put that who owns this title on a blockchain? Or how do we put your identity or prove that you graduated from school? And now you can prove that because it's on a blockchain. You don't have to have these documents that were lost in a house burning down. But now the school that you graduated from is closed.

So there's all these kind of use cases that aren't just about money. But it's about the way that our world will start changing. And people now, I think, are at a point where they're ready for this type of change, to where not everyone goes to one single source for all of their information. They're kind of hopping around. So I think that would be the big thing for people to consider. And I think even as I'm building in it, I would say, as you start learning, share that with your audience.

And I love that you said that earlier, Bob is bring people with you, don't leave them behind. And I started getting messages on Facebook and on Instagram, like, Tell me more, can we meet up? My friend said this. Can you actually, what are your thoughts? And I didn't realise at first that people would be that interested. But just because I said it and they knew me and they knew what I've done before to where they thought. And I had one person actually did a consult recently.

And the woman that said, I never even thought about it. I thought it was all a scam until you said something. Then I decided, okay, let me pay attention to it. It's really important for people to consider their brand as they're doing this. So be careful and give caution. But this is something that I think it's important for you to know and for you to consider how you actually either on board that into an existing business or even potentially help your clients with it as you were speaking.

And this has kind of popped into my head a few times through the conversation. We're speaking about things like Blockchain digital assets, hyper connected world. And you must have seen the movie what's it called, you know, the one.

I mean, ready player one, ready player one.

That's the one. And what I know to be true is gigabit internet, at least in Europe, is going to be the standard for most people within a few years. I'm expecting it this year. My son, who lives like a mile away, he has it already. Vr is ready. It's wholly ready for that kind of experience. That's why Facebook is pulling the meta cat out of the bag right now. And with Blockchain to be able to own real tangible assets in a virtual space coupled with VR coupled with a hyper connected world becomes a very interesting conversation.

And what I can see very clearly is in ten years time, our experience of the digital space will be completely different. And it's time to start laying the groundwork for that now. Yes, we work in marketing, both of us. Marketing will be completely different through this. And I'm seeing things like clubhouse and everybody's, all the platforms. And I'm introducing voice spaces. I'm thinking, What's that for? It's for this, because Town Square in real time will become the new content hub if you like, they'll become a communal space.

But they'll become communal spaces where you can actually own tangible assets and you can trade them. And this is the future. So it's been a really useful conversation for me.

Yeah, I want to just respond to that real briefly. I think what I sense in what you're saying is getting people to start thinking about and preparing for the future. And one thing about that is right now for many people, things look normal. So I'm not great at math, but I understand enough to know that we have a linear curve which starts at the left and the bottom. And then over time, it gradually goes up like a line that gradually goes up. But then when there's exponential change to that linear curve, it looks like a hockey stick.

So there's linear time. And then it goes up exponentially. If you have people doing the same exact thing, there's going to be a period where the person that is prepared for the future and their business is set up that way to where they look the same as the person that's going to grow. I can't say that word, but you know what I'm saying over time in a linear fashion. So they're going to grow the same for probably two to three years. But then there comes a point to one person actually grows linearly because they prepared for it.

And I think that's what's happening now when you think about even what I do. So for what I do. Yes, I am specialised. I know a lot about digital ads more than your normal person. But if you put me against your Google algorithm or your Facebook algorithm, they're matching and they're targeting, in most cases, will perform better than me or just as the same in many stores in America. If you walk in, there used to be a clerk and they would cheque you out, they'd ring up your groceries.

And then as soon as you are done, there'd be someone else bagging your groceries for you. That's all changed. Now everyone does it themselves. And there's one person that supports 16 different automatic teller devices. If you walk into a McDonald's here, there's a kiosk. You go up to the kiosk you put in your order and then they make it. So there's all these things that we're seeing now that are being primed and being prepped, like you were saying. But in a matter of years, there's this exponential change and a lot of people aren't prepared for it, and they're not prepared for it because they don't understand how much data is being collected and how these machine learning programmes can actually make great decisions.

With that, we have genome sequencing, we have data storage, we have blockchain like, these things are so big. We've only had one thing that was somewhat exponential, and that was the Internet, but that's grown over years. Now we have five that are growing all at the same time. So when I talk about education, I'm not just saying it as this is important. Please pay attention. I'm saying it in. Amazon is creating trucks that does delivery. So there will be less truck drivers with jobs, there will be less kids that can go work at a burger place and get a job.

There will be less jobs for people because a lot of systems are doing that to me. People who can invest in cryptocurrency is a way to actually get involved in this new technology that's going. So I think it's more than just something that's cool. But the whole systems that we're used to look the same. But if you actually start looking at it with different eyes and seeing what jobs people used to do and how they're being replaced. I think when you take that new lens and start looking at cryptocurrency, you become shocked and you want to learn more and you want to position yourself for the future.

I think that's probably an awesome place to bring things to a close. I could keep going on this all night. It's really interesting. I think about even my job now. I have a hard time explaining what I do for a living to people in the street. I can't even imagine what that's going to be like in ten years time. So yeah, I think anybody listening thinking, how can I invest today in a skill that will set me aside from everybody in even five years time? You just found it.

Joseph, if people want to connect with you, if they want to go further with you, how would you like them to do that?

So the best way, if you're interested in any crypto content, I've created new social channels. It's life, money, crypto and that's everywhere. And it's really about investing in yourself. Before you invest in other things, you can find all the crypto content that I'm doing there. Bob, I'm also launching a funnel course because as you can tell, I'm getting more out of the done for you and helping other people launch it because there's great software out there. So I'll do something special for your group. And if people want to go to Josephbojang combo, we're going to find a way.

We'll just set up a waiting list for them. I might do something as the first crypto sale with your group, but also you can sign up and be notified about when that course comes out. Should be here pretty soon and would love to help you all out as well.

Also, knowing what you know, outside of crypto, purely in the marketing funnels, particularly for the personal brand entrepreneur. I'm going to be there because you are my guy when it comes to ads. Thank you, Joseph. One last question. What's one thing you do now? You wish you'd started five years ago.

If I could do anything differently five years ago, it would have been I would have bought $20 of Bitcoin every other week. It seems like one of those things that isn't really that significant, but I would have so much money in the bank that I could either invest and do so many other things with. If I just would have done that one thing five years ago for the listener.

What would the result of that have been in terms of dollars?

I would probably have to add it up, but I would venture a guess over multiple millions. It would be where I would be now, but I would need to go back and cheque. And that's why I would say if you're going to buy it, just keep it for five years and then make a decision then. But yeah, that investment would be huge.

Joseph, thank you so much for your time. You've been a great guest and I can't wait to speak to you again.

Thank you, Bob.

Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe and join our Facebook group. You'll find a link in the show notes or visit Amplifyme. Fm Insiders Also Connect with me wherever you hang out, you'll find me on all the social platforms at Popgentle. If you enjoyed the show, then I would love a five star review on Apple podcast. It would make my day. And if you shared the show with a friend, you would literally make my golden list. My name is Bob Gentle. Thanks to you for listening and I'll see you next week.

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Episode Overview

You already know everyone you need to have an incredible business. Most people put all the emphasis on winning new audiences, growing email lists or building communities without giving a moment's thought to the people who already know, like and trust them.  

This week on the podcast I’m speaking with Robbie Samuels, author of ‘Small List, Big Results, Launch a Successful Offer No Matter the Size of Your Email List’

About Robbie

Robbie Samuels is an author, speaker, and business growth strategy coach recognised as a networking expert by Harvard Business Review, Forbes, Lifehacker, and Inc. He is also a virtual event design consultant and executive Zoom producer recognised as an industry expert in the field of digital event design by JDC Events.

Robbie is the author of "Croissants vs. Bagels: Strategic, Effective, and Inclusive Networking at Conferences" and "Small List, Big Results: Launch a Successful Offer No Matter the Size of Your Email List." He is a Harvard Business Review contributor.

His clients include thought leaders, entrepreneurial women, associations, national, and statewide advocacy organizations, women’s leadership summits, including Feeding America, California WIC Association, and AmeriCorps.

Robbie is the host of the On the Schmooze podcast and #NoMoreBadZoom Virtual Happy Hours.

Robbie's Bonus : http://www.robbiesamuels.com/gentle

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Transcript coming soon.

Thanks for listening!

It means a lot to me and to the guests. If you enjoyed listening then please do take a second to rate the show on iTunes.  Every podcaster will tell you that iTunes reviews drive listeners to our shows so please let me know what you thought and make sure you subscribe using your favourite player using the links below.

Episode Overview

Some people have no problem jumping into personal visibility and building their authority but for many it’s a huge challenge.

Often those people who struggle most - either with the idea of visibility or the practice of achieving it are the introverts of the world.

I know I’ve struggled with this and we speak about it often on the podcast, but when Susanna Raey writes a book about it, then it’s time to jump in and focus on it. 

About Susanna

Susanna Reay is an Online Business Coach, Digital Course Expert, Author and Speaker. She helps introverted coaches package and sell their expertise online so they can achieve the sustainable income and lifestyle they desire. Susanna is the founder of The Introvert Way™ and has worked with over 1000 introverted women globally since 2015.

Get the The Introvert Way™ Roadmap at at https://susannareay.com/roadmap/

Automatic Audio Transcription

Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription.  There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.  

Transcript coming soon.

Thanks for listening!

It means a lot to me and to the guests. If you enjoyed listening then please do take a second to rate the show on iTunes.  Every podcaster will tell you that iTunes reviews drive listeners to our shows so please let me know what you thought and make sure you subscribe using your favourite player using the links below.

Episode Overview

This week we’re talking about money with my personal money muse - Tara Newman. We’re talking about a particular kind of money - it’s what we call PROFIT - and here’s the thing…  not all business make money. 

There’s a sliding spectrum of solvency, ranging from life support through to dream business.  

Today we’re going to talk about how we can move you off of money life support and a little closer to the business of your dreams.

Tara's Website : https://theboldleadershiprevolution.com/

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Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show today. On the show, Bob is speaking with Tara Newman. Are you able to have the lifestyle that you want to have? Are you able able to hit those goals of financial independence? And by the way, you're not getting there by renting a hut in Maldives with a glass bottom. You're getting there because you're saving more than you make that you're living within your means and you're saving, and then you're investing what you've saved. In order to build wealth, you need to pull three levers.

You need to make money. You need to spend money intentionally, and then you need to invest what you saved.

Hi there. And welcome back to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneurship. My name is Bob Gentle. And every week I'm joined by incredible people who share what makes their business work. If you're new to the show and take a second to subscribe in whichever player you do use. And if you're listening on Apple podcast, remember to hit the new follow up in the top right hand corner. That way, Apple will cue me up every time I launch a new episode, which is normally every Monday. So before I jump into introducing this week's guest, just a quick reminder that after nearly 200 of these interviews, I've learned a thing or two about what makes business work online.

It turns out success does leave clues, and I want to give you the map. So jump over to my website and grab a copy of the Personal Brand Business roadmap everything you need to start, scale or just fix your personal brand business. It's yours for free as gift from me. Now, this week we're talking about money with my personal money muse Tara Newman. And we're talking about a special kind of money. It's called profit, and it's apparently quite rare. Here's the thing. Not every business makes money.

And it seems to me that there's a sliding spectrum of solvency ranging from life support through to dream business. And today we're going to talk about how you can move from life support and a little closer to dreams. So Tara Newman, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. And I love being called a money muse. I might have to use that.

So, Tara, we're going to be talking about money today, and a lot of people think, especially in the UK and Europe. Money is a dirty word, but it's the lifeblood of any business. It's absolutely central. No money. You have all the problems, but sometimes more money means more problems if you don't have your systems down. Right. So this is why I wanted to speak to you because we're going to be talking all about how to make your money work in your business. So for the listener who doesn't know you haven't met you, why don't you just tell us a little bit about who you are, where you are and the kind of work you do, and then we can just talk money for the next 40 minutes.

Sure, I am Tara Newman. I am the CEO and founder of the Bold Leadership Revolution. I am from New York. If you cannot tell by my lovely melodious accent, I have been in and around small business since I was a teenager. I was raised by a small business owner. My husband and I first started our first small business back in 2005, which got really banged up by the Great Recession. And by 2010 we were bankrupt. So I think that that's a really important part of my story, especially when it comes to money.

And I always tell folks I went bankrupt, so you don't have to. And so I share very openly about that experience. I currently work with primarily women experts, service based businesses who are looking to use their business, leverage their business to generate wealth. And I think that is a really important distinction to make because it's not necessarily about having a shiny seven figure business, or I think now online they're talking about eight figure businesses, but that they have a business that allows them to generate wealth.

And my background I come out of corporate. I have very large clients that have revenues of $100 million a year. But my sweet spot and my favourite thing to do is the under a million dollar crowd.

A lot of people forget when they talk about the turnover in a business, turnover is not profit, and some sort of mid to low six figure businesses can be making more profit than some seven figure businesses. And this is really important because a lot of people judge themselves on their revenue. But actually we need to judge ourselves on the profit because I've worked with business owners my whole life like you. And what often surprised me was that the people with really well run six figure businesses had far better lifestyles than people who run terribly run million turnover businesses.

So what is that?

Well, it's the absolute truth, Bob, that's what that is. And when we look at reasons why people start businesses, it's because of two reasons personal freedom and financial freedom. And oftentimes that personal freedom gets sacrificed for this chase for financial freedom, which people don't actually understand. They equate financial freedom with a lot of revenue. Or I think this is what you call turnover in the UK, and it starts to infringe upon people's personal freedom. And the interesting thing is I talk about creating wealth, right? I talk about financial true financial freedom and independence, and people who are working in a nine to five job can experience financial independence and financial freedom and build quite a bit of wealth because it's not about how much money you're making, it's about how much money you're saving and investing, and then how much time you give that money to grow.

And in some cases, people who are in a nine to five job have more benefit to create financial freedom. I know in the United States we call it a 401. I'm not sure what your pension or retirement plan is called in the UK, but in the States we also have employer matches to people's 401K. So what you put in the employer will match to a certain point. So there's a lot of opportunity to create financial freedom. You can have a nine to five and have a little bit of a side hustle.

So really, if you're a small business owner, it's not about the financial freedom. It's about the personal freedom. It's about the time freedom. And that's the thing that business owners are sacrificing the most for something that they could have a lot easier even if they worked in nine to five.

So one of the reasons that I was keen to speak to you is obviously the profit first angle. So for the listener, Mike Mccallowitz, who's coming on the show in the early New Year. Thank you, Tara.

You're welcome.

Wrote a book called Profit First. Now for me, Profit First changed my business, the processes and the principles in that book. I remember reading that book and throwing it on the desk and discussed it when I got about a third of the way through realising how much I was going to have to change and how many mistakes I've made. But fixing those things fixed everything. And I've gone from running what was the business on life support to a business I'm really happy with now, and it provides that confidence and certainty that I'm building something worth building rather than building something for the sake of paying other people a lot of the time.

I think what you're talking about goes beyond that. What you're talking about is life margin, not just profit margin. So how does your approach sort of build on Profit first and augment it in order to maybe make it a bit more 360 degree business owner rather than just the business owner?

Yeah. So Profit First for anybody who doesn't know is basically a pay yourself first system for your business that if anybody had a great grandma or grandma who used the envelope system for their budgeting in their home, where you had different envelopes for groceries or rent or those things, that's basically the envelope. This is basically the envelope system for your business. And so it really answers the question, what in the world do I deal with the money that I'm making? Where does it go? It first goes to profit.

And they talk about people say to me, Why profit? Why is profit important? And Mike and the Profit First team talk about profit as your reward as a business owner for putting in the effort that you put in and that profit you can take out of your business on a quarterly basis and go on a vacation, buy your holiday gifts or the way I like to use it is to build more wealth, to turn that into cash generating assets like index funds or stocks or real estate or anything like that that becomes truly passive income that is working for you over a long period of time.

Then you have owners pay. You pay yourself. And what you pay yourself is for the support of your lifestyle, to provide for your family, and then you pay your taxes and you pay your operating expenses with what is left over. So it forces constraint. It's Parkinson's law. Yeah.

Well, what I was going to say is that for anybody who's paying attention is really flipping the whole script on how most people run their businesses. Most people it's operating expenses. And then, oh, my God, what's left?

Yes. And it's really the way that we've been conditioned. You make good on your debts. You pay your bills. Right. Like, think about some of the stuff that maybe we've been taught and have grown up with and especially from non business owners who might have a different mindset. So that's kind of the system of how you pay yourself first in the order and operations of how you do it, so that you're priming. I pay myself first rather than I pay everybody else first. And so it's a very simple system.

But it's not always easy. And it's not always easy. If you read the book, I hear from a lot of people. So if you're listening and you're like, Well, I read the book and I threw it down. I was super frustrated that's most people. As a matter of fact, I didn't actually get through the book until after I was certified. I get that some people might have picked that up and have been frustrated and put it down. But I really want to encourage you to try that again.

And I think that we hear a lot around knowing your numbers in business, like, know your numbers. But people don't talk about what numbers they need to know. I want to just share this a little bit. Mike in the book talks about taking you from a cash eating monster to a money making machine. And that is wholeheartedly important, right. That is what the goal is. But then I want to take it a step further and go, how do we take this from a money making machine to a wealth generating machine?

If your small business, I see it as your primary cash generating asset that then feeds these other assets. And so if that's the case, I want everybody to Zoom out. And this is a bit of a tricky conversation. But a KPI is going to be your net worth. And when I talk about net worth, I do not connect that to yourself worth. So I just want everybody I like to make that distinction. This is not about your worthiness. As a human. We are all inherently worthy.

But what I want you to consider is is your business positively contributing to your net worth. Now our net worth is going to fluctuate. Right? So our net worth is our assets minus our liabilities, our cash on hand, our home value, our stocks, our index funds and real estate investments you have minus your liabilities, which are your debts, your mortgage. I know in the UK, you guys don't really have credit card debt, but in the US, like high leverage credit card debt, student loans, that kind of a thing.

And there's a lot of things that can impact your net worth. Like if you have a lot of stocks and the stock market didn't do great, right? It may wobble, but that's not the point. The point is, is your business positively contributing to that, or is that a priority? Are you priming that in your personal life? Because that is what's going to get you that financial freedom and that financial independence that you want. We want your money working for you. We don't want you working that hard for your money.

And so the first number that I want you to know is your net worth. That's your KPI, your key performance indicator. Revenue, in my mind, without anything around it is a vanity metric. So after net worth, what's the most important number for your finances? Your profit, that's how much you're keeping and then your revenue. Of course, we need revenue coming in because we don't have profit if we don't have revenue. But if you're solely looking at revenue, revenue for Revenue's sake, or you don't know why the revenue goal you've picked is your goal, then that's really about vanity and ego, and it's unhelpful and it's unnecessary.

So net worth profit. Those are KPIs. Those are key performance indicators metrics. Those smaller numbers that you want to be looking at to me are things like that's, your revenue, your revenue is a metric. It's not a key performance indicator. And so that's kind of how I think about knowing your numbers and how you can really look at your business differently to ensure that you're getting closer to that actual financial independence and financial freedom that you're looking for.

So one aspect of this that we spoke about before we started recording was sales, because in order to have a business, you need to be bringing something into it and you operate your own kind of framework which has profit first as a component of that. Can you describe that for me?

Sure. So my programme is the Bold Profit Academy. And in there, as I see myself as building bold profit businesses. And when you look at profit first, the profit first equation is sales minus profit equals expenses instead of how people usually look at it, sales minus expenses equals profit profits that you have left over at the end. So in order to get to profit, we need revenue. And in order to do that, we need to be able to generate high quality leads. In my mind, people show up all the time.

I have no leads. That's not true. So we need to find those invisible leads. You need to be able to understand where they are in terms of lead category. Are they hot? Are they warm? Are they cold? And then you need to amplify what's working, then the next problem that small business owners have is inconsistent revenue, inconsistent sales. And that comes from a number of things. If you're in the online space and you're operating a launch model, you are going to have inconsistent sales coming in because you're selling during time periods and not on a consistent basis.

We're training our buyers to only buy from us when we have a cart open or a cart closed. I'm not a big fan of that. That's not how I like to see businesses run. So how do you get to that consistent sales? We need to have an offer that allows you to be enrolling in it consistently. It needs to be your boldest offer. In my opinion, it needs to be a premium offer. I like to see businesses find that sweet spot between having a premium offer so we can lower volume, lower volume is more profitable.

So can I ask a question at this point? One person's premium is another person's low rent. So how do you define premium to your clients?

Okay, so I will give you my definition and I will give you a caveat. I work with service based business owners who are experts. They have been doing what they've been doing a long time. They have honed their craft. They have a true service to offer in the world. They've paid their dues. About 3000. $5,000 is a premium offer. In that respect, I understand that we need to possibly look at what's premium for your audience. So depending on who you're selling to, that might be different. And then that comes with trade offs.

So how you position your business? You can position your business to be more profitable. Or you might have to look at different strategies for how you're going to grow that in a way that is more profitable because like I said, sometimes when you get involved in volume, profitability takes a hit. Then you have to align your sales process with your values, with your personality, with your strengths. This is for anybody who has said to me, I'm an introvert. I'm an introvert, too. Or I don't have the skill set.

Or I'm not charismatic or whatever. We find a way, we find a way. And then what everybody does not like that, I say, is you have to sell every day. If you want consistent sales coming in every day, you have to find the revenue generating activity, the activity that leads to sales, and do that every day, no matter what happens.

So I have another question. Then, given that you are working with competent, successful experts from the service based industry, I'm guessing that that consistency leads to a consistently successful sales approach. What do you see most commonly working? Well, what are the levers that you generally find people need to pull on a daily basis?

It depends for everybody. It really depends. I do hear that people feel a lot of embarrassment and even shame if their business is highly word of mouth or referral. I don't I think that's a very highly profitable way to run your business. So building those relationships and being a helpful, thoughtful human being really goes a long way in terms of things that you can do every day, making sure I'm being really committed every day to your clients and showing up for them and helping them get the results that they want to get because that will result in repeat business that will result in referrals.

And again, that's highly profitable. That's sales that you're making that you don't have to pay for client acquisition costs on.

I think this is really good to get into, because it's very easy for people to fall into the trap of thinking, oh, Tara just wants me to go on Instagram and shout about how awesome I am and why they should go and jump over to my cart.

No, actually, I'm happy to make you a millionaire and you never have to touch Instagram. It depends. Right. I think right now anything high touch is disruptive because we're seeing so much low touch, so much automation, so much eight second reels. Right. So I'd rather see you send 32nd video, but do it in a way that's so much more high touch that will really start to lead to a sell because people are craving that right now in my programme, the Bull Profit Academy, we go through an offer creation cycle and everybody wanted to create a down sell because nobody's comfortable selling at a higher price point.

And I wouldn't let anybody, to their dismay, create a down sell offer. And so the ones who created the upsell found that they were able to sell that offer the most when the summer hit and people were like vaccine waxed and not really paying attention to life or the business. Right. And buying things, and that really saw them through what some people experienced as a slower summer. But really it's about starting conversations. I'm a big, huge proponent of email because it's cheap and because it's intimate and because it's a great way to start conversations.

As a matter of fact, I think people are more engaged in email because nobody's watching them have the conversation than, say on an Instagram post that is out in the open. So my engagement is a heck of a lot better in my email than it is on Instagram. Anything that doesn't require you to run ads, ads can be very costly, and so ads can make things happen quickly, but it's going to come with a trade off. So if you just sit down and you look at what's worked.

And for you to make a sale, where did the last three sales that you've made come from? You're going to get a lot of information around what your highest priority tasks should be every day. There are things like this is a new trend that I'm seeing around, like, don't do sales calls. I am selling high ticket programmes without doing sales calls. And I'm like, I don't know why you would want to do that. I get that sometimes the sales call can be draining, but I rather fix and adjust that because having these calls properly gives you a lot of insight and information into the people who you want to support, and the more you can get to know them.

The best thing you can do is become like a method actor with your best fit client and really be able to speak to them so directly that you know them better than they know themselves. So any activity that allows you to do that round table conversations, sales calls, even a Facebook group where you're asking questions and people are engaging, but you're using that information to get to know them better. That really works.

I think what I really like about that is something you described. And there's the phenomenon of people not trying to avoid sales calls. And I can imagine if you've filled your funnel with lukewarm contacts who don't really know who you are and what you're into that's going to convert badly. It's going to be a poor use of time. But if you've far less people in your funnel that are much more well suited and more warmly predisposed to who you are, that's going to be a much better investment of time.

So sometimes quality is more important than quantity in that sense.

Yeah. And I think also understanding some basic math and statistics. So I think I read a statistic that 50% to 70% of your leads are not your ideal fit or you're not your best fit client. Right. And so starting to manage your expectations around that and understand that or 15% of your leads aren't ready to buy from you. Only 15% of your leads are ready to buy from you right now. So if you're doing a launch and you're first bringing people on to your email list, that's 85% of your list.

What do you do with that after the launch and they didn't buy you dump them? Most people do, right. That's why selling every day. And having these conversations every day is so important because you're going to meet people where they're at and when they're ready, they will buy. And if you can do that consistently day after day, they will convert. So like I said, you're not going to get the wash of everybody coming in at one time. And of course, that's adrenalising. And people love that.

But you're going to have more consistent, predictable income down the line. And then we answer the question like what do I do with this money? Right. And how do you pay yourself first? How do you prepare and have a rock solid tax plan? And how do you then make smart investment decisions? And it's very interesting to look at what people actually need versus what's being marketed to them. Because what do we see in the marketing? Seven figures. Make more money, that kind of stuff. Make money overnight, quick fix, get rich, quick.

Right. So my programme is all about getting folks to about $250,000 in revenue, because that's when they could start to pay themselves six figures. And so I thought people were going to come in and their first and biggest wins were going to be around paying themselves around making more money. And their biggest wins are settling up with the taxpayer and figuring out. And I don't see that. Say that facetiously at all. Like, this is real. This is really happening. So if you're listening to this and you're like, yeah, I got a scary tax bill.

You're in the majority.

I've been there so many times so much, which is what led me to profit first in the first place. And now I don't mind paying tax. It's okay. But like you, I feel for all these people who haven't got that plan in place, who are firefighting the tax bill every year. And actually for a lot of people, the tax bill just leads to more debt every year. And that's so crushing.

Yeah. And so it's not the sexiest thing to be like, hey, I'm going to help you get your tax stuff sorted. But that's really one of the first wins that comes out of the community. And the second one that comes out of the community is having some kind of like somebody said the other day in my programme, they've got six months of their owners pay saved so that if something happens in the business, it's a dip, they can still continue to pay themselves. That's a big big deal.

And it shouldn't be. This is the thing. But I've read multiple times most businesses in the US, and I know it's the same in the UK are one month away from bankruptcy as a standard state of existence, that they have enough money to cover, maybe payroll in the months to come. And that's it.

Yeah. So some of the statistics are 83% of business owners are living paycheck to paycheck. And then here's another one that I find really interesting. And I don't know how much of your listenership is women versus men. But in 2018, the Amex Small Report for Women's Small business owners, 88% of women's small business owners are not earning over $100,000 in revenue. So why in the world are we seeing marketing to seven figure businesses? That's 1%, especially the females, that's 1% of female owned businesses in 2018 that might have shifted up a bit, maybe a percent.

Probably not to where we are now. Then when you start to look at how women were impacted by COVID and Gallup did a poll, and I think it was 61% of women small business owners experienced daily worry, and it's dramatically different than their male counterparts. And when they started to unpack it, it did have to do. It came down to money. It came down to being able to get funding, it came down to getting loans. It came down to some of these money aspects.

Yeah. I'm still like 6ft behind you on how many people are marketing to people who are running six figure businesses when actually that's such a tiny minority. I hadn't really thought of it that way, but it's so true.

It makes me very rageful.

I can imagine because it makes people feel bad when they're not there. And actually, most people I speak to as business owners, small business owners. They're not there.

Yeah. Here's the other thing that we do in marketing that really irritates me. If you think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs at the top is self actualization. We're marketing to self actualization. We're marketing to aspiration. Meanwhile, are you able to provide for your family to have the lifestyle that you want to have? Are you able to hit those goals of financial independence? And by the way, you're not getting there by renting a hut in Maldives with a glass bottom? You're getting there because you're saving. You make that you're living within your means and you're saving, and then you're investing what you've saved in order to build wealth.

You need to pull three levers. You need to make money, you need to spend money intentionally and then you need to invest what you've saved.

It sounds so simple. I think this is the important thing for people listening. There are probably some people whose businesses are struggling and they think I can't pull these levers. I don't know which levers to pull the levers are there for you to pull. And this is why I would encourage anyone to read profit first because I thought there was no way to fix my business. I thought I had to go and find a new one. How often do you meet somebody and you look at their business and you think that's not going to work every day.

So here's the other thing I hear from folks is like, I'm an expert. I've done the things I've paid my dues. I've honed my craft. I'm so good at what I do. I'm so much better than so. And so X, Y and Z, the Instagram account next to me. I don't understand how they're making all the money, how they're filling their programmes, how they're doing, the things they're not right, they're not. I can tell you they're not. Almost every single person that comes to work with me tells me how embarrassed they are that they look their Instagram account or their Facebook marketing.

Their marketing in general looks better than what they're actually bringing in. And let me tell you something. The people making the most money don't have the prettiest graphics because they don't have the time they're selling.

There's so many places I could go from there. Most of it involves me asking you to name names.

But I know that kind of after Bob after.

So we spoke profit first, we spoke sales and we spoke on investment a little bit. But let's dig into investment because most people listening have probably not done very much, and especially business owners, there's nobody holding a gun to your head saying you have to make provision for your future in the US. I think it's exactly the same as in the UK, whereas you're a business owner. Saving for retirement is optional. Is that fair to say? And it's a lot of people don't take.

Okay. Yes. So 100%. And I get people who say to me like, I didn't realise I could as a business owner, it's almost accepted that you don't, especially. I remember leaving corporate and everybody was like, Well, what are you going to do about a 401 or what are you going to do about your benefits or what are you going to do about some of these other things? Right? First of all, retirement in the concept is very young. It's only a couple of generations old. I believe there is a Vox.

It's either Netflix or Amazon Prime. Vox put out a special like one of their Vox explained, like mini documentaries, and they talk about retirement. So you can try and go find that it was very insightful in the sense that it's only a couple of generations old. People don't really understand it or know what to do with it. And even I work with a lot of business owners who are second generation in the process of taking over that business from a parent. And the problem is that parent thought the business was going to be a saleable asset, and that's not always true.

It's often not true. Correct. So my biggest advice here, and I'm not a financial planner, but I do want to give a very good resource for folks that I really want everybody to go and read. And if you go pick up this book and you read it, I want you to take a picture of it, and I want you to send it to me on Instagram at the Taroneymoon because I want to see how many of you are doing the work. Okay. And the book is called The Simple Path to wealth, and it's by a gentleman named Jay L.

Collins. He is an American, so he is writing it from an American perspective, but it does apply to folks outside of the US. And so it is the simplest way for you to start building wealth and gaining financial independence. Is this book he wrote it for his teenage daughter. It's that simple.

Well, what I was going to ask you is there are probably a lot of people listening who are not in their teens. They're not in their 20s or possibly not even in their 30s anymore. What would you say to anybody who's thinking I'm starting to get anxious. I've maybe left it too late.

I'm 45, and I really understand that because ten years ago, eleven years ago, we declared bankruptcy and in ten years, I've gone from bankrupt to a millionaire. It is possible. I'm not saying it is easy. I'm saying you have to understand your money and you have to be willing to think about money differently. And one of the best things that you can do to start thinking about your money differently is to start considering what it is that you need to thrive. What is it that you need to thrive?

And I have a podcast episode on this that I can give you a link for Bob that talks about this and walks you through the questions that I want you to be asking yourself because when you see what you actually need to thrive, you're going to realise one. It doesn't cost a lot of money. You're all going to put on there that you want more time with the most important people in your life. You want to hug your kids. If you're Bob, you want to get out there in the Scottish wilderness and be hiking and take in the fall foliage.

And there's a lot on there that will light you up and fill you up. That doesn't cost money. And the things that do cost money, you're just going to cut everything else and focus on the things that cost money that are so important to you. My dad is such a great example of this. My dad loves to boat, and he loves to ski two very high brow activities. He is wearing the same champion sweatshirts that he wore when I was a teenager. He doesn't care about his clothes.

He doesn't care about really anything else. And all of his time, attention and money go into those two things. And that's what it means to live by your thrive list.

I love that. That's probably a really good place to bring things to an end, because so many people that get frustrated with their businesses, they lose hope. They just think, what am I doing all this for? And it's so refreshing to hear that there is a way through it. It really just boils down to pulling the right levers. And sometimes that's just about having the right information, taking the right path and travelling with the right people. And that's why I'm really grateful you came on the show just to talk about that, because you are one of the right people.

Tara, if people want to connect with you, where would you like them to do that?

All right. Well, I have a gift for your audience.

I love a gift.

So my team and I have created something called what we're calling a revenue goal calculator. And what this does is it allows you to set an appropriate and I know everybody gets boring. And again, appropriate word appropriate isn't sexy, but an appropriate revenue goal for your lifestyle. If you want a business that complements your lifestyle, this is the way you're going to do it. And it has you put in your monthly expenses. And I have a 15 minutes training video that walks you through it. And then it's going to tell you how much money you need in salary to take home every year to make those expenses, those investments that you want to make on your own and you can go through and you can put in just basic needs.

And then you could go like, oh, if I wanted to have a more luxury lifestyle, what would that look like? And you can really start to play with what your income? What your personal income? Your take home is going to need to look at, but then it reverse engineers it and it puts it through profit first. So it's going to tell you based on how much money you want to pay yourself, how much revenue you're going to need, how much of that goes to profit, how much of that goes to taxes and what you have left over to pay your expenses in your business.

I love that because I can remember a time when I was sitting in my business thinking I'm wasting my time. I could double what I'm making in the business and I would still have nothing left a profit first fixed that part, but it hasn't fixed for me is how do I personally move from where I am now to wealth personally? And you address that really clearly in there, so I can't wait to go and play. Where do I find it?

Okay. So it is at theboldleadershiprevolution com revenue and that is where you are going to find that revenue calculator. Now, if you have a mixed gendered audience, male, female. A lot of my stuff talks to women. If you're a guy, please hang out, stay with me. You're going to learn and we can still work together. I just tend to talk to women because that's the majority of my audience, but it's all relevant to all genders.

We all know about niche ing here. It's really important. Speaking really clearly to one audience makes a lot of sense. Tara, I know you have something else on in the air, so thank you so much for your time. I have had a great time and thanks for being patient, because what the listener doesn't know is I'm experimenting with recording this and video as well, with a view to potentially building in a bit of live streaming later on. So we've been very awkwardly looking at each other as well, which is not normal for me.

Normally, it's just in my ears and my head is the wrong way around and it's all just a bit weird, so thank you very much for your patience.

Of course. Thanks for having me, Bob.

I can't wait to speak again soon.

Bye bye bye.

Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe and join our Facebook group. You'll find a link in the show notes or visit Amplifyme. Fm Insiders Also connect with me wherever you hang out, you'll find me on all the social platforms at Popgentle. If you enjoyed the show, then I would love a five star review on Apple podcast. It would make my day. And if you shared the show with a friend, you would literally make my golden list. My name is Bob Gentle. Thanks to you for listening and I'll see you next week.

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Episode Overview

What does prolific really look like?  Today’s podcast guest has written 29 books, runs a daily podcast, has a Youtube subscriber base of 125k and has given 4 TedX talks.

We’re talking about discipline, confidence, mental toughness so tube into this week’s podcast, meet Dre Baldwin and learn how to work on your game. 

About Dre Baldwin

In just 5 years, Dre Baldwin went from his high school team's bench to a 9-year professional basketball career. At the same time, Dre built a content publishing empire. 

Blogging since 2005 and publishing videos to YouTube starting in 2006, Dre has published over 8,000 videos with his content being viewed over 73 million times. Dre's daily Work On Your Game Podcast has over 3 million listeners. 

Dre's site : http://ThirdDayBook.com

Automatic Audio Transcription

Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription.  There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.  

Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur show today. On the show, Bob is speaking with Dre Baldwin. Any situation that occurs, anything that happens in my life, I don't care if it's me going and picking up a pizza from the local restaurant or I'm outside working on my computer and it starts raining on me like it did yesterday. Or I am on somebody's podcast like we're doing right now. Anything that occurs in my life, I can find an angle that takes it from the story that actually happened to something that is part of the work on your game philosophy and the work on your game system.

In other words, everything that happens to me can become content. That's the first thing. The reason that I have my mind set up in that way is so that everything that I do over the course of a day could possibly become an email. It can become an article. It can become part of the keynote that I give. It can be something that I mentioned on my podcast can be an anecdote to support a bigger point. So that's one reason I'm able to create so much material is that everything that happens in my life, every single thing could become kind of a ball on that fire, so to speak.

So I'm not going to lie. I know nothing about basketball, but I do know when I'm impressed. And this week's guest has been a professional basketball player for nine years, has written 29 books. Now that all alone is impressive, but has a YouTube channel with 137 subscribers Additionally. And this is where I really feel quite ashamed of myself. He has a daily podcast, but not like one of these Mickey Mouse daily podcasts that are five minutes. It's like a proper full on podcast every single day. This guy has got his game on.

Dre. Baldwin, welcome to the show.

Very thrilled to be here. Bob, thank you for having me. Thank you for a great introduction. Looking forward to the conversation.

I think when I looked around your stuff, I was really surprised because lots of people write books. Lots of people have podcast. Lots of people have YouTube channels, but they don't go in as hard as you've gone in. That's just really, really impressive. And there's so much that I want to pull out of there, especially when I look at the topics of your books. But I guess for the listener who doesn't know you, why don't we start just by you telling us a little bit about who you are, where in the world you are and the kind of work you do and who you work with.

Sure come from the city of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Now I live in Miami, Florida. My background as an athlete played basketball overseas for nine years. While doing that, I started publishing content to this brand new platform called YouTube, and that's actually where the bulk of people started to know me initially was through YouTube and even basketball players more than know me from YouTube than know me from actually playing overseas. And while I was publishing that content and started to build an audience of mostly basketball players, those players started asking me about mindset because they just heard about my background and how I struggled to even make my high school team and had to walk on in College, meaning I didn't have a scholarship because I wasn't a highly ranked player coming out of high school.

And even then, after College, I had to really hustle in order to get into professional basketball, I really had to sell myself because the level that I played at in College wasn't a super high level. So when I started talking about mindset, the interesting thing happened, Bob, is that I started to draw an audience of people who were not athletes on my videos because they said, Well, Dre, I know you're making these videos for athletes, but the way that you break down and talk about mindset, it can apply to anyone, and anyone can learn from it.

So that planted a seed in my mind, Bob, that I could take this aspect of what I was doing and I could apply to anyone, even outside of my experience as an athlete. So when I stopped playing basketball in 2015, I already knew what I was going to be doing. I was going to take the mindset tools that worked for me as an athlete, and I could teach those to anyone, even if they had never picked up a ball in their lives. And I understand you're not a big sports guy, so it's perfect.

So that's where the whole work on your game philosophy came from just taking the mental tools that you need to succeed in sports and teaching people who didn't play sports, how to apply them and in the process. And I'm sure we'll talk about this. I started writing books, doing public speaking, doing Ted talks, creating courses, coaching people, et cetera. And that is the foundation of the entire work when you gain brand framework, philosophy and business, which I now run full time as an entrepreneur again. Like I said, I stopped playing ball six years ago, so that's where it all came from.

And what I do now is mostly work with. I work with professionals, basically from all industries. So my philosophy and my brand is somebody called it agnostic. It is industry agnostic. I like that because it doesn't matter where you come from or what kind of work you do. The type of stuff that I teach and talk about can apply to anyone because I know how to break it down and explain it.

I think one of the things that caught my attention was the kind of content you're creating. It's around discipline, it's around confidence, it's around mental toughness. And these are success traits that I see universally. Anyone super successful. They have these in abundance. And from what you're describing in terms of your own career in sport, you didn't start this way. And I'm curious to know from you, when was it that the work began? What does that look like?

The work, for which part of it?

Well, there's ordinary Dre sort of before College, maybe the before pro athlete Dre. And then there's the pro athlete Dre. Something changed in terms of your mindset. And do you remember when that began and how either natural that was or how much you had to work on it?

Absolutely. And it was actually something kind of in between those two things. It wasn't exactly natural, but it wasn't manufactured. And it's not even something that I had to work on is really something that I had to uncover. So there were two specific incidents, incidents that occurred. So when I was in College, there was a coach who had recruited me to come to the school that I ended up graduating from and recruited me to play basketball. But he got fired and was replaced after my sophomore year.

So I still had two more of College basketball. But now a new coach was in, and this coach had not recruited me. So there was no connection between me and this new guy. Now I was skilled enough, talented enough to still earn a spot on the new coach's roster. But the thing is, the new coach and the old coach kind of didn't like each other. So the new coach didn't really want any of the previous coaches players in his regime. And this happens all the time in College sports, by the way, for people who don't know when a new coach comes in, that new coach kind of wants to clean house the same thing that happens in corporations.

The new CEO comes in. A lot of the people who were working for the old CEO lose their job, not because they can't do the job, but because the new person wants to bring in their own people. So this happens in sports. So I became a casualty of the change in regime. So my last year and a half of College, I wasn't even on the basketball team, even though I was not injured. There's nothing wrong with my academics. I just wasn't on the team simply because I wasn't part of the new coach's playing.

So in my mind, I knew that I would watch the games. I still have friends who were on the basketball team, so I would still go to all the games and watch them play. And I still play basketball all the time, just not on the team. And I had a story in my mind that, listen, I'm better than these players who are on the basketball team. But the problem is because I've always tried to look at things as objectively as a human can be. We all have our own biases.

But I try to be objective even with myself. And I said to myself, even though I believe I'm better than the players on the basketball team. If I wasn't me, what would I say to myself? And I would say, Well, look, you can think whatever you want, but right now you're in College and there's a basketball team on this campus and you're not on it. So for you to sit there and say you're better than other people, well, you can't prove it. You need some proof.

Talking about it is one thing, but proving is another. So I knew, for posterity's sake, the only way that I'd be able to prove that I was better than these players who were still on the team at this point was I need to go to the next level and next level was the play pro. So that was part of my motivation, part of my drive to make it as a professional athlete, despite the fact that again, it's not like I had a bunch of offers I had to choose amongst.

When I got out of College, I had to go create those opportunities. And the second thing that happened that really created that drive for me, Bob, was when I got home from College. I graduated, came back home to Philadelphia. I'm at home home with my parents, and my parents asked me, Well, okay, son, you have a College degree now, what do you want to do? And I told them I wanted to play pro basketball and they don't know. My parents aren't athletes. They don't know a lot about the pro basketball world, especially overseas, in which there's not a tonne of official information.

Even to this day, most of the information about how to play overseas was created in fact, by me over the last ten years. As a matter of fact. So imagine how much information there was when I was trying to put. So my parents, they just start asking me some logical, reasonable questions that anyone would ask another person when they say they're getting into a certain industry, such as, do you have a plan? Do you have any idea how you're going to do it? Do you have any offers?

Is there any structures to how you're actually going to make this happen? And I didn't have answers to any of those questions. So my parents, my mom, mostly was doing most of the talking. I talked about this in one of my books, and she was basically saying, Well, look, you don't have any kind of plan to do it. You still need to figure out what you're going to do as an adult. Here, maybe go get yourself a job. You have a College degree, get a job somewhere so you can make some money.

You can get yourself an apartment, a place to live, get yourself a car, start living like an adult. I understand you want to play basketball, but if you don't have any plans for that, then you can't just sit around and wait on that. And she was absolutely right. And it's not like she had anything negative towards my idea of basketball. She was just trying to help me get established as an adult out in the world. And clearly there was no plan for me to do it with basketball.

So when that conversation happened, I wasn't even mad at my parents so much, but that I was mad at the circumstance, I was mad at the situation. So those two things between what happened with my College coach again, I wasn't even mad at my College coach. I was mad at the circumstance that I had found myself in, and I needed to prove a point. And again, the situation with my parents, it was a circumstance I need to prove a point. And it wasn't to a certain person.

But it was just to myself and kind of to the world. Like I said, I crafted this story in my mind that I don't think anybody else really cared that much about it. But I told myself the story that that was what everybody else was thinking. And I used that the power of my imagination to push myself to go make it happen. So yes, I had talent. I had ability, I could jump high, run and shoot, jump shots and dribble to basketball and all of that.

But there are a lot of people who had those same physical abilities who didn't make it as pro athletes. And the reason is they were very much concerned with how am I going to do it? And Bob, as I just said, when it comes to playing overseas basketball, the how is very murky. There's not a lot of clear information on exactly how to do it even to this day, except for what I've created. But I was asking myself two much more important questions when it comes to creating success in life, which is what do you want?

And I had a very clear outcome. And why do you want it? That was the drive that was pushing me to go do it. And I just gave you the two stories that I always tell people are the real reason that I became a pro athlete. So if you ask yourself the what and the why instead of asking yourself how because when you ask yourself how you're trying to think logically, when you ask yourself what and why, you're thinking more on the emotional level. And we all know that people make decisions and are driven more by their emotions than they are by logic.

Logic is a secondary thing that we use to justify our emotional decisions. And many people get themselves stuck trying to figure out how. So to answer your question here, was there something that happened? Yes, those two things happened. They activated more of the emotional drive, passion side of things. And through using that energy, I was able to figure out the logical how strategic side of things.

So that all makes perfect sense. And it really brings me on to my next question, which is you are a super productive person. You've 29 books, four TEDx talks, the daily podcast, the YouTube channel. You're doing a lot of stuff. And what I wonder is when you look around yourself and I see this a lot of people when they start their own business, for example, they wonder, why doesn't everybody do this when you look around at people, what do you think about other people's productivity, other people's mindset.

Why do you think everybody doesn't do this? Because it clearly works.

It's an interesting question. I don't really think about that that often. But when someone let's just say someone comes and asks me about it, let's say they are trying to be more productive or they want to get more of their ideas and more of their content out there. But they're not doing it. And I really get a chance to take a look at what they are doing. Often, one of the challenges that they're asking themselves a lot of the wrong questions. I was just actually talking about this on my Instagram yesterday is that a lot of times people ask themselves the wrong questions, then they get the answers.

They get the right answers to the wrong questions, and it doesn't lead them to where they want to go. So a lot of times it's just the insight is incorrect. What are you actually trying to achieve here? And someone in one of my mastermind programmes was asking about this in this past week. They're coming up with these solutions or what they think are solutions to the wrong problem. And I'm trying to help reset their mindset and help them understand. Listen, though, you're asking a question. It's like ten questions down the road.

We need to answer question number one first before we answer question number 17 to help them understand that we got to go one step at a time here. So that's one of the challenges when it comes to that another one when it comes to productivity, specifically is sometimes people just don't have enough to say, or at least they don't know that they have enough to say is a better way of saying it. It's not even that they don't think they have it. They have it, but they haven't organised it well enough, or they haven't created a system that allows them to organise it well enough so that they can continually put out material.

So I publish to all the social platforms, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram podcast, and I even send out articles by email. Damn there every single day with the emails and all those other platforms every single day. The reason that I'm able to do that is not because I'm necessarily smarter than so many other people, but it's because I figured out a way to organise disseminating my intellectual property and my knowledge and my ideas in such a way that I can do it in a duplicatable way that I can do it every single day, and I can even teach someone else to manage it for me.

I still have to come up with the material, but I can show someone else here's how we put this out. Here's how we organise this, here's how we schedule it. And a lot of times, people just don't have the organisation around what they're doing. They have plenty of knowledge because I know people who are, I would even say, might be more of an expert at what they do than I am an expert at what I do. And that's a compliment to them because I feel like I know my thing pretty well.

The difference between me and them is that they don't have the organisation around it. They don't have the system, they don't have the structure. They haven't created a process that allows them to do it over and over and over again. And this is something Bob, that I've always thought about. Even going back to my basketball days when I was 1516 years old, just trying to get good and make my high school team was I always ask myself, what can I do every single day to make myself better?

Because I understood that if I just go to the park and Practise hard for 4 hours, one day, that's not all of a sudden going to turn me into Michael Jordan or Stephan Curry. But if I can go to the park and Practise every single day for a certain amount of time, then cumulatively that time and that investment will add up. So I always try to ask myself anything that I do. What's something that I can do over and over and over again over an extended period of time, not just something that I can do one time and again, this is all about asking yourself better quality questions.

And I think a lot of people who are trying to be productive, they just don't ask themselves these type of questions. It doesn't even occur to them. So then when they are coming up short by their estimation on productivity, it's not because they can't be productive. It's not because they're lazy. It's not because anything is wrong with them. It's just because they're not asking themselves the right questions. Therefore, they're not activating the materials that they do have access to that would help them get the results that they want so oftentimes is a poor strategy or a lack of strategy many times.

So let's talk about strategy a little bit because like I said, and I don't want to overdo it. You're super productive and that needs systems. So just super high level. What does your content system look like?

Well, when it comes to I would say it all starts with from the foundation of it is me having my framework in place. I know exactly what my approach is when it comes to how I talk about things. In other words, any situation that occurs, anything that happens in my life, I don't care if it's me going and picking up a pizza from the local restaurant, or I'm outside working on my computer and it starts raining on me like it did yesterday. Or I am on somebody's podcast like we're doing right now.

Anything that occurs in my life, I can find an angle that takes it from the story that actually happened to something that is part of the work on your game philosophy and the work on your game system. In other words, everything that happens to me can become content. That's the first thing. And the reason that I have my mind set up in that way is so that everything that I do over the course of a day could possibly become an email. It can become an article.

It can become part of a keynote that I give. It can be something that I mentioned on my podcast. It can be an antidote to support a bigger point. So that's how one reason I'm able to create so much material is that everything that happens in my life, every single thing could become kind of a log on that fire, so to speak. The second thing is when it comes to the system, just to answer your question here on a more technical side is I have my assistant understand exactly how I want things to work, and I know how it works, and that's how I can show other people how it works.

So my podcast, for example, is a daily show. It's just me talking. I don't have guests on my show. Whenever I get an idea of something that I can expand on and talk about for, let's say, 15 to 30 minutes, I just write it down in Google Docs. I don't flesh the whole thing out. I don't write out a whole transcript. I just write down the big idea what the big idea is. For example, one recent topic was mental toughness versus mental health. I'll just write that down.

Then at some point I'll sit down and I'll flesh out all the topics that I have written down. And that's how I know what my material is going to be for. When it's time for me to record my show, those episodes. When I record, they become obviously the audio episodes of the podcast. I record those on video. Also, they go up on YouTube. I put out two YouTube videos a day. So then I take something like a live stream I might have recorded or just a regular video.

I'll record. Sometimes when I'm in my car, I'll record a video while I'm driving, not with my hands, but I have a little holster that I can set a camera up with. And sometimes I go out on my balcony where I live here, and I'll set up the camera and I'll just record while I'm standing there and record there because it's a nice view. People always comment on the view like, yeah, you always record on the balcony. So that's another way that I record to keep the videos coming.

And then from that material. This is something that I do that I don't think a lot of creators do. Actually, maybe they have someone do it for them. I listen to my own podcast. So when my episodes come out and my audience listen to them, I go back and listen to my own episode so I can remember what I said. Number one and number two, because sometimes I'll say things in an episode of a show that I wasn't planning on saying and some point that I made an episode number 15 that might become the entire episode episode number 25.

So I might say something like that. That was a good point. I need to make a whole episode just on that one point there that I just said off the cuff. So that's how I get more material. And then I'll go grab quotes from things that I say or maybe something that's related to something I say and that can become a status update on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter. And then I'll throw an image that goes with it because I have plenty of photos that go with that.

So there's a whole system behind what I'm doing that allows me to continually publish over and over again. But it's not like I need to get on each one of these platforms every day. These days. We have software that does this stuff for you so you can use one platform that can schedule your Instagram, your Facebook, your Twitter, and your LinkedIn. All in one. I have my audio person who does my audio editing. They do everything for the podcast. All I do is record the episode uploaded to Google Drive.

They take everything from there because they know exactly how things work and exactly what I want. And if I want to change something, I sent them a message and slack. They make the changes, and it's all done. So it's not like I have to be an octopus with eight arms doing all these things. It's just a system that is set up, but at the same time, I have to have the material in order to continue. We feed the system. That's a challenge that people have. And the main challenge that people have with that is number one.

They don't have the system in place, they don't have the mental organisations to do it, and they haven't created a clear enough framework for what they're doing, so that it's easy for them to come up with angles for what they're talking about. Me I can come up with angles very easily simply because I know what my angles are, anything that happens. Like I said, I can figure out a way to bring it back to what I talk about.

See, I didn't appreciate the importance of a framework until about a year ago that once you have a framework, you have stories to tell all the time. You always have a place to go. It's really useful. And I was encouraged. I really struggle to think of any business where a framework isn't going to support you isn't going to give you a competitive advantage, isn't going to help you actually explain your value to other people for the listener. I wouldn't be doing my job properly if I didn't ask you how much time you spend on an average day in content land in creating content.

Yeah, an average day creating content. I'd say maybe an hour. Let's just say every episode of my show is let's say 20 to 30 minutes. So let's just take out 30 minutes for recording an episode of my show. Then maybe grabbing some quotes from an episode or something that I said, and those will go into a Doc that will eventually end up on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter status updates. Then maybe a post that I'll put on Instagram. And maybe let's say I'll record a YouTube video. Maybe I'll go drive to the store, I'll bring my camera and I'll record a video that goes on YouTube that will take me ten minutes.

But I'm actually doing that while I'm driving. So it's not like I'm taking time out specifically for it. But the thing is, Bob, I batch all of these things, and I think that's an important thing for people to know. We're talking productivity for content. I batch this kind of work, so I don't have to actually turn on the microphone and record an episode of my podcast every single day of the year. I might record ten episodes in one day. Now people only know that because I tell you you wouldn't know it if you listen to the show.

But I might record ten episodes in one day and that's it. And I'll try to record. I always try to record more than I need. So knowing that my show is every day every week, I try to record at least eight episodes, right? Because the seven days in a week. So over the course of every month, I'm always kind of sandbagging a few extra episodes. So I'm always weeks and weeks ahead of my recording schedule, me publishing schedule rather. So if I want to go on vacation or if I was to get sick, God forbid, or something like that, I have a little bit of buffer space there in place.

And when it comes to quotes and I send out a daily motivation text to people in my text community for free every morning, I just write all those down in the Google Doc, and then I just schedule them all out at once. So I have those texts scheduled through the rest of this month, and then through the next month. I already have them scheduled. So it's not like every day I have to think about what do I need to do for this? Some days I might not create any content, but I'm publishing content if you understand what I'm saying, because I already have it set up in place.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense, but I think it was an important place to go because I meet so many people who tell me all, seriously, I don't have time for one Instagram post a week or one YouTube video a week, and it's important to get that contrast, and it's important to get that context. I do want to look at why you do this. Not right now, but I want to come to that in a little bit. What I wanted to speak about next is people don't create content for lots of different reasons.

And a big reason for a lot of people is they're really worried about how other people are going to react to it. And I'm curious to know how that was for you, particularly in the beginning. I think we quickly forget how hard it often was in the beginning. How was that for you?

No, I never really thought about that. Honestly, when I first started creating content Bob before YouTube, actually, I was blogging because I've always been a writer. I've always been a reader and a writer. So I was blogging. 1st May of 2005 was when I first started my blog, and I put a video on YouTube later on that year because that's when YouTube initially came out and when I first put videos up, it was just me on a basketball court playing basketball wasn't even speaking. People could barely even tell my face because it was just me on the court actually doing basketball practising by myself.

And the first responses that I got from that because I didn't really get a lot of traction from blogging. It's not like I had this big audience or anything, but the audience really started with the videos and it would just be basketball players who were interested in me because they saw that I looked like a half competent basketball player. At this point. I'm already playing pro, so they could tell that I could play. But they didn't know who I was. But at the same time, no one had ever put video on the internet showing basketball players how to get better at basketball.

So this was a brand new phenomenon that I was doing. So these players were just curious. They were just asking, hey, can you make a video about this? Can you make a video about Dribbling, about shooting, about dunking, about just different aspects of practise in basketball? So they were really looking at me as a teacher. I was like an educator, like an online coach to them. And this is 2005. Mind you, before, this was a normal thing to do. So they were really just hoping that whoever this random guy is here on YouTube, maybe he can make more videos because I can use what he's doing to help myself know how to practise.

So that's where it started. It wasn't like people were just coming on there, too. They weren't like internet trolls, at least not that much. Back then. It was not people just leaving their random comments for no reason. It was only basketball players who want to learn how to play basketball. So I was fulfilling a need. And as soon as I realised that Bob, that's when I put the foot on the gas and said, Man, I could just take everything that I know about basketball and just make videos about them because I can serve this audience.

And again, this was you couldn't really make money from putting videos on YouTube until maybe 20 09, 20 10. So when I started putting the videos out, the only reason I was doing it is because number one I saw it was an opportunity for me to serve an underserved audience. That's more of like a charitable way of looking at it, but also because I said, all right, these people are paying attention to me. It kind of makes me significant in a way, and I didn't know what that was worth.

I didn't really foresee that it was going to be any money to be made from it. But I said, Let me just keep doing this. More people will know my name. What's the harm in that? I'm already playing basketball. What's the harm in people knowing my name? I'm trying to play pro. I'm trying to keep getting contracts. There's nothing I can lose by somebody knowing my name. I'm not trying to be anonymous. So let me just keep doing it. And then when the opportunity to make money came around four or five years later, I already had an established it wasn't a crazy audience, but I had a little bit of an audience and I had a content base in place.

And then when the opportunity to make money from it, let's say, from ad revenue. And then I started creating my own products and programmes. I started doing it every day. At that point, I didn't do it every day until around 2009. But before that, I was doing it sporadically. But I already had a fervent audience of people because they're like this random dude who we never heard of. They knew my name by that point. But they know me from anywhere else. He is showing people how to play basketball, and one person told another person and a lot of it spread by word of mouth.

So that's how I got started with it. I don't remember what your question was.

My question was really about negative reactions or even people not understanding what you're doing. What's this weird stuff you're doing on Landry? We thought you were a basketball player because I hear a lot of people when they're thinking about getting into content, actually worrying about sometimes what the people closest to them will think about it.

Okay, so let me answer that one. When I first started putting the content on the Internet, some people close to me, people clearly knew that I was doing it. They could see that I was doing it. But it wasn't really a thing to be putting content on the Internet. So it was kind of looked at as like this little person living in the basement type of hobby. It wasn't a business. And so nobody really cared. At that time, the people saw that you were doing it, but everybody knew what's your real job.

What do you really do? It's not this because again, there was no money to be made on the Internet at that time. We're not using phrases like content, social media branding, personal branding influencer. Those phrases didn't even exist in the lingo at that time. So this was kind of like a little side thing that somebody does for fun. Some people garden, some people coach youth sports, and some people make videos on the internet. It was just a side thing that people did was not a thing.

So if anyone did have an opinion on this little thing that I was doing, nobody told me about it. So I didn't know what anybody's opinion was. So by the time the money option came around and this was the kind of the advantage for me was that I already had a foundation and an established audience. Again, it wasn't a crazy sized audience, but I had an established audience. So when the opportunity to make money came in, I wasn't just this carpet bagger coming in just because I saw the dollar signs, I was already doing it.

So it made it easy for me to go straight into it.

So then looking at the business side of it now, every business is a value exchange. You have something people need, and there are people out there that need it, and your content really crosses the bridge. It connects you. But how do you deliver value to that audience outside of your content? Commercially speaking, what do you mean in terms of charge for how do you help your customers? Sure.

So when it comes to paid material, I just have a ladder of material. You can start with books. I have 29 books. And generally speaking, a book is a pretty low ticket item. Book will cost you anywhere from three to $30. So anybody can get into my world by just getting one of my books. And I have books on a lot of different topics. Mindset, people skills, professional basketball, discipline, mental, toughness things like that. And then I can bundle those books together so you can come into one of my web pages to get one book for free.

But you might leave with ten books in one order simply because we bundle them together. And I give you a great deal. I give you a better deal than anybody else can give you, even Amazon. So that's the starting point of where people can get in. And I used to, let's say, five plus years ago I would sell courses. I still have a lot of courses that I would sell, but I really got away from selling digital courses individually so much because I found my audience wasn't really connecting to the courses as much as they were connecting to my book.

So I put all the courses into one offering so you can still get all my courses, but I bundled them into one offer so you can make one payment or you can make a series of payments to break it down and get access to every course I've ever made in one place. But I'm not going to sell the courses individually anymore. It's just not my thing. And then I have group coaching programmes. I have one on one coaching programmes outside of the direct to consumer stuff.

I do professional speaking and consulting for businesses, and I'm putting together some other higher level coaching programmes that will be invitation only. And then outside of all of that, really looking at a way and working with some people right now to create some software where I can take my intellectual property and put it into something that people will use over and over again with or without my personal involvement, but something that people will continue to pay for, just like, let's say something like Zoom or WordPress or click funnel or something like that.

I'm not a developer, though, so I'm going to need some help with that. But my business partner is working on the developing side. I'm working on the IP side, but that's something that's kind of further down the road.

Yeah, it's very easy to focus on the competence side of things because you're doing a lot of things, right. And you're very skilled around a lot of areas, but I'm curious to know reflectively which parts of your business do you feel you struggle with which parts are you're not comfortable with?

That's a really good question. What parts do I struggle with? I think one of the parts that I struggle with at first, let's say pre 2013. That's about 2013. I paid a lot of attention to because, mind you, I'm playing professional basketball this time. I'm travelling the world playing basketball, so I didn't really care what happened with this Internet stuff. I cared enough that I kept doing it, but I didn't really care if it was going to make a lot of money if it was making no money.

I didn't really care. I was making money, but it didn't matter because I was playing basketball. So I wasn't really focused on making sure that there was a return on investment for everything that I was putting out and also didn't even know about building an email list. I didn't find out about building an email list around maybe 2013. So I'm sure I left a lot of emails on the table. So to speak because I didn't know about that. Even when I put my first book out for free, I just let people go download it, didn't even ask them for an email in exchange.

So something like that, I just didn't understand the business concepts, just the mindset around making sure if you're going to give people something, ask them for something in exchange. I didn't get that until. I guess it was later in my process, but it was probably earlier than a lot of other people. But nowadays I understand all those things. So I help business people and help them understand it to make sure that they can build some equity and make sure they're maintaining equity and building equity in their business when they're putting things out there to their community, even if they're putting something out for free.

So I would say that it's just not understanding the structure of how especially online business works and how you can make sure you're creating a return on investment for yourself every time that you're giving something to the audience and also understanding mentally that your consumers are willing to give you something as long as you're giving them something of value. I didn't know that, but now I know it, and now I help other people not make that same mistake, or at least not for as long as I did.

No, that's a really good answer. And honestly, you have nothing to be ashamed about in the list building side of things, because honestly, that's probably the most common thing I hear from some really big names online is I wish I'd started building my email list a lot earlier. It's something people so often anyone listening. It doesn't matter how small you start, but start because it will feed you forever if you start.

That's right.

What's the biggest thing going on in your world right now? What is it that you're working on? What are you building?

Biggest thing I'm building right now is actually three things. Number one on the basic level of new automation funnel, which is emails that I sent out and a lot of articles. I do a tonne of writing, so I send out articles either every other day or damn near every day, depending on where you are in my automation system. So I'm working on another one right now. This one's going to be probably about two to three years long worth of emails that I'm sending out between offers and articles a it's pretty long one, but I'm almost done actually, today I'm not going to finish the whole thing.

I'm going to finish putting in some past articles that I've already written that I need to add in. Then I have a new batch I need to add into that one. So this automation funnel is going to be over 600 days long. At least I haven't finished adding everything. So it'll probably go maybe in the 700 days. So that's the number one thing that I'm working on that I need to finish today because I've been working on that for the last three weeks. The second thing is, I'm putting together a higher level coaching programme, so I have group coaching.

I have one on one coaching, but I'm offering a higher level programme is going to be invitation only, and this is going to be super high ticket. I'm working on finishing up that offer and just how I'm going to lay that whole thing up, because that one I'm only offering certain people who are already working with me one on one. And the third thing is and this one is not completely in my control because I'm working with other people on it. That software thing that I just mentioned there.

I'm working with some other people on that on the development side and putting all of that together, just taking my IP and really putting into something that people can use over and over again, figuring out exactly who we want to target with it. And that's a much longer term project that is in its very early stages. So those are the three biggest things I'm working on right now.

So I'm going to come right back to what I said at the beginning. You are prolific, and that's a word I don't use often because content creators create content. That's what they do. They're supposed to be modestly prolific. You are terrifically prolific.

Thank you.

I would be interested to know what you would say to anybody that's listening who's trying to find the motivation to just be modestly prolific? What is it that's different in your mindset when you wake up in the morning? What do you say to yourself? What's your internal conversation about why you're going to do these things that other people want to?

That's a great question. So, Bob, I'll tell people I'll give people the simple understanding that there are three strategic ways to draw people into your world, and only three. And I'll tell you what these three are in terms of how quickly they can turn around and produce results for you from fastest to slowest. The fastest way is advertising. You put one dollars in and you get some people to come to your website. You pay Facebook, you pay YouTube, you pay Bing, you pay Instagram, whoever, and they bring people in.

The good part about advertising is that you can get as many people as you want to come wherever you want them to go to, as long as you're willing to spend enough money to do it. All right. That's advertising. The second way is collaboration collaboration. You can look at what we're doing right now is collaboration because there are people listening to the show who have never heard of Dre. Baldwin and maybe never would have heard of me had I not appeared on Bob's show. So in collaboration, you go connect with someone else who has an audience that is probably different from yours in many ways, and you get in front of that audience.

And if you offer something useful that catches somebody's here, hopefully some people in that audience now also add you as someone that they pay attention to because it doesn't take away from Bob. For someone in Bob's audience to also be in Dre's audience, you could be in as many audiences as you want as a consumer. So the second way is collaboration. It's not as fast as advertising, but it is effective. It takes a little bit more work, a little bit more time, a different set of skills.

But it doesn't cost you money most of the time. The third way is content. Content is material that you just create yourself. You don't have to collaborate with anyone. You don't have to talk to anybody. You don't have to pay anybody. It's you putting out your own material on your own platforms, or even if it's on Facebook or YouTube or your own website. However you want to do it, you put that material out. And hopefully that material is useful enough that it draws some people into your world.

Now, the challenge with the good thing about content is that it's completely free and you don't have to have any people skills to create content. You don't have to talk to a single human being ever. The challenge is more of a long play. It's a long game when you're creating content. Content is kind of like running a marathon. So creating some content today does not necessarily mean you're going to make a whole bunch of money tomorrow just because you put some content out. So this is the long game that you play and a lot of business people or people who want to be business people who are creating content.

One of the biggest challenges that I hear from people often. And, Bob, maybe you hear this yourself is people say, Well, I put these posts up on Instagram, but I only got this many likes or I put these videos up and only got this many views. Or I've been writing articles, but I'm not getting a lot of hits to my website, and I'm like, Well, how many posts did you put on Instagram? Well, I put up three last week. I'm like, Well, what do you think is going to happen here?

This is like creating content is like planting a tree. It's not going to become an Oak tree tomorrow and have a whole bunch of squirrels in it and birds nesting in it. Just because you planted the seas two weeks ago, you got to give it some time and you have to keep doing it continuously in order to let it build up. So what I suggest to people is you have a mix of doing all three of these run ads, collaborate with people and create content, understanding and having the right expectations around how long it's going to take for each one of these to turn over so to speak and produce results.

So to answer your question, long answer to a short question here, Bob, is that my mentality when it comes to content is knowing that content that I create today is not necessarily going to turn into dollars tomorrow, next month, or maybe even next year. But you're planting seeds in the minds of your audience. You are nurturing your relationship with that audience. That's what marketing is about is about the relationship that you are building and nurturing with your audience. It does not necessarily mean that they're buying anything because there are people in my audience who have followed me for years before they bought something.

But once they get in, it's your job to keep them in. So that's my mentality around creating every day.

That's a really good answer. And I think moving on. Actually, I'm looking at the description for your new book, The Third Day, and I'm willing to bet you go a lot deeper on almost the same question in that book. So maybe tell me a little bit about the third day.

Sure. So the third Day is one of my is actually my most popular framework. Let's just say that work on your game is the overall framework. But the Third Day is the most popular one within that framework. And it's all about your willingness and the decision that you make to show up and deliver every single day, even when you don't always feel like showing up and delivering. This is something that is really important in the professional sports world, where you can't pretend to be working hard. You can pretend to be working hard at an office job, and you can't pretend in sports because every time you're at work, everybody in the world is watching you.

So if you're not delivering, everybody knows about it and they might be talking about it the next day on TV. So the third day is all about, yes, it's a situation. It's a circumstance like the first day you show up to the gym. You might feel great about it because you chose to join the gym. You got new workout clothes, a new personal trainer, and the workout kicks your butt because you're not in shape yet. But you're like, hey, I'm doing this the second day. You got a little bit of fatigue from the first day, and the workout is a little bit harder because you had a fatigue on your body from day one and that same workout that you're not in shape for yet.

But you look into yourself in the mirror when it's over and you say, hey, I'm still doing this just a little bit less enthusiasm, but you're still doing it by the third day. Already, you're questioning your decision making process. By the third day, your body and mind are having a difference of opinion by the third day. This is one of those days where you might grab your phone and text your trainer and say, hey, just charge me for the session, but I'm not coming. The third day is that moment when you realise that this thing that you signed up for, it's not all fun and games.

It's not going to be one big party. It's not as easy as it looks from the outside when you signed up and there's some real work that you're going to have to do to make it happen. So the third day is not just the moment that you realise this, but it's the decision. It's more importantly, the decision that you make. How are you going to show up knowing that? Now you realise this is some serious work and this is what separates the pros and amateurs, because what makes a professional professional is not their potential.

It is not what they do at their peak. It is not what they're capable of. What makes them want a professional is what they do every single time consistently. That's what professionals get paid for is their consistency and their dependability, their reliability, not their potential. A lot of people have that incorrect that professionals get paid because they're so good. Yes, they are good, but a lot of people are good who don't become pros or don't stay pros. What pros get paid for is the fact that you know exactly what you want to get from them every single time.

So that's what the third day is about.

I think that's true. In sport and in business, the highest paid professionals are the people who consistently get results. That's why we pay them.

That's right.

So yeah, I'm going to go and get that book. Where can I get it? Drake, where can I go and get the book? What's the best place for you?

You can get the book for free. All you have to do is cover the shipping if you go to thirddaybook. Com. Now, Bob, I understand you are located outside of USA. So of course, to ship a book outside of USA, we all know it costs more money so you can get the we have a bonus bundle at thirddaybook. Com. Books free. Still, you would just cover the shipping. Now the bonus bundle will give you not only the physical book, I'll still send it to you. You'll also get the digital book and the audio book so you can actually start reading and or listening to the book right now while you wait for as long as it's going to take for us to get this book shipped and over to you wherever you happen to be.

If you're outside of the USA. But if you're in the USA, of course, you can just get the paper back. And if you're overseas, you can just get the paper back to just with the understanding that you know how long it takes to ship stuff from the USA to where you are. So thirddaybook. Com we have options for everybody. We have the digital. We have the physical. We have the audio at thirddaybook dot com books free. All you want to do is cover the shipping.

And the truth is at the moment after breakfast, it's probably quicker to get stuff from the US than it is from anywhere in Europe.


There you go. The postal system here has gone crazy.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So it shouldn't take more than I would expect. Maybe two or three weeks.

I won't take that long. No, even better from the US is really quick. So, Dre, you have been great fun. I've really enjoyed myself and learned a lot. If people want to connect with you, where can they find you online? What's your favourite social media platform?

My favourite is Instagram. That's the one that I use the most simply because I'm on Instagram stories. I use Instagram stories all day every day. So Instagram is just my name Dre. Baldwin. You can DM me there. You can message me there. You can follow me there, of course. And I don't think my daily motivation text was I send every day. I don't think you can get it if you don't have a US based number. So if you are in the USA, anybody who's listening, you just text me.

My text number is 305-384-6894. That's a US number. You can get my daily motivation text straight to your phone every day.

And if you give me that number in an email, I will include it in the show notes.

Okay. Perfect.

So dry. I need to ask you the one question that I ask everyone at the end of the show what's one thing you do now that you wish it started five years ago, man.

Well, I already gave you to build a listing, so I'll do that you can have one thing I do now that I wish I did five years ago. I wish I had done more of that collaboration, like I talked about more of what we're doing right now, reaching out to people like you and talking to people who have audiences that are related to what I'm talking about, but not exactly the same as what I'm talking about because there are people listening to this show right now who are like, man, they're going to be thanking you, Bob, for bringing me to their attention.

But had I not reached out to you, had you and I not connected, they might have lived the next ten years of their lives and never knew that I existed. So I'm really glad that platforms like this, like podcasting have taken off to where people like you are looking for people like me to bring value to your audience because this is the way that we can kind of cross pollinate so to speak. And we can all get our messages out to people that otherwise never would have found us on their own volition.

So this is something that I wish I was doing a long time ago.

I'm really glad you made the time for me. It's been great to meet you. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Absolutely. Bob, I appreciate you for sharing your platform. This has been a great conversation.

Before I go. Just a quick reminder to subscribe and join our Facebook group. You'll find a link in the show notes or visit Amplifyme FM Insiders also connect with me wherever you hang out, you'll find me on all the social platforms at Popgentle. If you enjoyed the show, then I would love a five star review on Apple podcast. It would make my day. If you shared the show with a friend, you would literally make my golden list. My name is Bob Gentle. Thanks to you for listening and I'll see you next week.

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