Scaling your business without burnout, with Andrew Sillitoe


Burnout is a something you hear about but would you know it if it hit you? Would you notice if you lost your way and didn't get fired up about what you're doing any more? Andrew Sillitoe has built his business around helping business owners scale without burnout.

Yes - scaling a business takes hard work and tenacity - but you can do it without embracing all the stereotypes we all know.

In this week's episode Andrew walks me through his business, how he built it and how he works with clients and unpacks the four keys to scaling without burnout. I loved this interview and I hope you will too.

About Andrew Sillitoe

Andrew Sillitoe is a business psychologist, performance coach, public
speaker and author from London, England. Blending 20 years’ experience as an elite international sportsman and coach along with three published books and an acclaimed TED talk, Andrew’s innovative and straight-talking views on leadership, teamwork and strategy has resulted in his advice and guidance being sought after by key figures at several FTSE 100 companies.

In 1997, Andrew made the move to Canada to pursue a professional
roller hockey career and develop his coaching skills. He succeeded in
both, becoming the first British player to play professionally while his
thriving coaching business was born. In 2004, he moved into the corporate world as a sales and marketing consultant for Yellow Pages.

In 2007, his unique and visionary approach in business saw him
headhunted by a consultancy to speak about a “winning mindset”. It
proved the spark that lit his future career path. Just a year later, he’d developed a new method to enable elite athletes and business leaders to fulfill their potential. This was the seed that eventually blossomed into his renowned 4 Keys Method

Links and mentions

Anderew's website :

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Automatic Audio Transcription

Burnout is something you hear about. But would you know it if it hit you? Would you notice if you lost your way and you didn't get fired up about what you were doing anymore? Andrew Sillittoe has built his business around helping business owners scale without burnout. Yes, scaling a business takes hard work and tenacity, but you can do it without embracing all the stereotypes we know. Hi there. And welcome back to Amplify the Digital Marketing Entrepreneur podcast. I'm Bob Gentle, and every week I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work.

If you're new to the show, then take a second right now to subscribe so you don't miss new episodes. You can also grab some older ones when you're done with this one. Don't forget, you can also join a free Facebook community to visit, amplify, meet or F m forward slash insiders and you'll be taken right there. So welcome along. And let's meet Andrew. So this week, my guest on the podcast is Andrew Senator. Andrew, do you want to start by introducing who you are, where you are and the kind of work you do?

Sure. Yep.

My name is Andrew Sillitoe and the work I do. I guess we, you know, business owners and solar producers who are perhaps struggling to grow their businesses whilst balancing their personal relationships, staying fit and healthy and avoiding mental burnout. Well, that's essentially what I help business owners do.

So I work with business owners by showing them how they can devote equal time, you know, through sort of a method to their work, their body relationships and mindset and ultimately bring their life into balance.

I think burnout is something that may quite often be misunderstood and have one quite like it maybe before we go much further. Is what's your definition of burnout? What does what does that look like? Because a lot of the time I wonder if people are maybe there and don't even realize that they are there.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, I'm not sure if there's one definition for it, but I you know, I've I've not really met anybody who feels burnout, doing what they love.

Right. So they might have a level of stress, but even that they might be thriving on on that stress.

But I think you're right. It's probably burnout is the insidious nature of burnout.

So we get very excited about a business, get very excited about our products, and especially when it's doing well. And we're out there and we're, you know, meet the clients. And we also recognize that perhaps we got to be, you know, healthy. Suess crushin it in the gym and we're doing all that. We're trying to do all these different things and be there for our families. And I think the challenge with with burnout is, like you say, people perhaps are there and they don't realize it.

And it's because of that insidious nature of of burnout.

And and often it's too late that that's the biggest challenge. And unfortunately, majority of my clients less so now, actually.

But before we were coming to me, when they were burnt out, I now I'm finding that more people are aware of it.

Maybe they've experienced it before and they do want to happen again and they'd be far more proactive about it or they see the signs, you know, so there are kind of two different types of people I work with, everyday ones that are kind of recovering from burnout who are, you know, experiencing it and the others who are perhaps I've been close to it and don't want it to happen again.

I think I'm just sort of reflecting on on burnout and my own business career. And I think what I'm maybe recognizing a little bit is there was a period, for example, I used to run a reasonably good sized agency for most of the time I was doing that. I loved the idea of being burnt out. Doing it was ridiculous because it was just so much fun until it wasn't right. But you're so used to the fact, well, you've always loved doing this.

So you obviously you love doing it. But all the challenges start to build up, pile up, and it's just piling up and piling up and piling up. That, as you said, it is insidious. Once you've been there, you recognize it quite clearly. But for that person hasn't been there before. That catching that moment, I guess it's the other end is real obvious warning signs that people can look for.

Well, I think it's you know, there are some obvious signs around fatigue, being snappy, being a little bit more short tempered than the normal, putting some of the work ahead of other priorities.

So, you know, when you when you start doing that, when you start neglecting other parts of the life, the stuff that happens outside the office for me there actually tell tale signs because we've become too obsessed with the business.

So. So it's about, you know, finding time, building in time, being proactive to take a step back and and actually building that into the diary, essentially that that is the key to avoiding it and and managing it, because there's always gonna be an element of burnout, you know.

And I'm not talking about full full on burn yourself out where you feel completely crushed and you need to take time out.

But there's there's going to be elements of sprints that we need to do in work where we have to put more more time in.

Some people say to me, Andrea, there's this is no way, you know, we can achieve work life balance. And actually, I'm not talking about work life balance. I don't I don't talk about it. My work life balance perspective.

I'm not saying every day you've got to finish at five o'clock so you can go home and spend time with the children.

It just said it's going to be there are going to be times when you have to be more aggressive with work, more focused on work.

But it's it's recognising that, knowing that and then being proactive with things like whether you would meditate or decent mindfulness work or just. Go for a walk, whether it's booking a a a trip or some time away with your family, because when we're working all the time, we forget these things.

You know, we're so in it. Months pass and, you know.

You know, whether it's are our partners have been neglected or our children. And then that catches up with us. So it's more about being proactive, I think.

And, you know, exercise, you know, not doing exercise, you know. One of the challenges I have with with people that I work with is not so much getting them to exercise and actually to because I'm very ambitious.

So they're all in on everything. Right. So it's it wouldn't be the first person to say to me, Andrea, and I've taken some advice from you and I want to get fit and healthy and get strong. So. So great news is I've signed up for the London Marathon, you know, or, you know, I've thought about doing a triathlon. And I thought, well, I might go all the way, go all in, and I'll do an Iron Man.

You know, it's like, well, hang on a minute. Right. That's the kind of stuff that leads to burn. I mean, that's like a full time job in itself. And you tell me haven't got time. So. So and I was there, you know, that was me.

You know, I've got a sports background. You know, I love my soccer. I like going to the gym.

And it's it's it's about being able to be a little bit more modest in a way, with some of these things not to be as ambitious, but just to see it as part of a lifestyle.

And less is more, you know, and and my experience has been that the more we focus on our body and our relationships and our mindset, our mental health, that the business just takes care of itself. And that's very counterintuitive for an ambitious entrepreneur or business owner who is really put in the business at the forefront. He's got that three year plan. Who is saying to his family or her family, hey, look, just hang in there with me.

Maybe no holidays for a while whilst we build this thing out. But the reality is it never comes.

It comes when we put our own oxygen mask on first and take care of our health when we're we're present with our families and we don't get that kind of stress that catches up with us, you know, where we've been pulled in so many different directions that all of a sudden going back to the insidious nature, because it's not just the burnout is driven by stress at home, you know, where you're trying to now make things work at home or because it's been neglected or all of a sudden the health has become a problem where you've ever overtrained or undertrained, you know, whatever it is, you know, that that's that's the challenge.

And then we start playing catch up with it and then the business has to be put on hold and then that suffers. We end up in this kind of vicious cycle. So it's counterintuitive for business owners, entrepreneurs, business leaders to say, you know what, I'm not going to put the business at the forefront of my mind. I want to put my health and my relationships and my mental health at the very forefront, my mind knowing that I'll be the best version myself every day when I turn up to work.

And that's where they'll find the difference is the best version of themselves, the best version of yourself as a bit of a cliche. It's exactly feels like a cliche, but it's also a truism that there are many versions of ourselves and how we put ourselves together is really what dictates that. I'm sorry. I really, really like that. So in terms of the work that you do, who's who is it you most often find yourself working with?

That's a really good question, because it's actually changed quite a bit over the years. You know, my my background was moving from corporate into the performance coaching world where I was going into organizations and working with teams predominately because of my my sports background.

So bringing those parallels in and working with team leaders and running leadership programs.

And then I start to transition into small to medium sized businesses, mainly because I just enjoyed it more than rather than dealing with the big corporates and still do in leadership.

So working with their team leaders and senior directors and the more recently in the last two years, the businesses that transition now to working with what I would call them, silo planners and and business owners, but business owners who have accepted that it's not a failure to build a business around them and just them.

And and that's something I've learned is that and I think because of changes in technology and social media, it's so much easier to scale a business, you know, and not a social media, but automation and so on.

So it's it's easier for my clients now to to to scale a business to outsource once they get a head around the idea of outsourcing and actually to grow a decent sized business, which, you know, if they if the business doesn't depend on them and they can automate and create system, put systems in place that actually has some value that they could sell one day, but not necessarily the goal, you know.

But to me and I wouldn't even call it lifestyle business, I would. Call it something that they are. I mean, some of them are some, you know, wants a lifestyle business. But they're building virtual teams. You know, they're not in particular now.

Big lesson learned know as we navigate through Cavey 19 is that people that have resisted, you know, having meetings on Zoome and working with freelancers and, you know, this work from home or work from anywhere type scenario because they want to have the office.

They want to, you know, have the team around them.

And, you know, for the most part, their motivation wasn't necessarily to have the camaraderie, you know, of having people present, which is often, you know, what people think actually it was coming from place of control. You know, if I've got people near me, I can control them. I think also vanity sometimes. Yeah, I think vanity is hoping to have lots of parties ideas.

You know, I'm up now where there's bricks and mortar or something, you know, that's got some substance to it, isn't it? You know, if you invite people into your office and you've got a nice reception and you know, you've got this team and it looks great, but I think a lot of it is driven by vanity. And people put that before profit, before their lifestyle. So. So and that lack of stress and burnout.

You know, I mean, that's a big driver when you and there'll be people out there right now that are downsizing considerably because they've built a business on that vanity rather than, you know, the actual real reason for for building a sustainable business.

Yeah, I remember having Mike Morrison on the podcast and Mike, you know, and he runs a business called the Membership Guys. I do know, Mike. And I think for me, he's a brilliant role model because, I mean, I think one of the things he said in his interview was, I run a lifestyle business and I make no bones about it. And a lot of people who don't know what I'm doing. Look at me from the outside.

Very judgmentally thinking he's just playing at being in business. But you dig into his business. He's turning over with a very, very small team, more than most large organizations. His personal income is far greater than any CEO and he's quite happy to call it a lifestyle business. So it's often other people's ideas of what success are, what causes stress.

Yeah, absolutely. And in fact, I was I was having the same conversation with with Chris Tucker, you know, this idea because I asked him, I said, you know, there's these influences out there.

They've got massive following, you know, and we look at them and we put them, you know, on a on a pedestal as if that's the kind of what we should be aiming for.

But when you unpick it a little bit, you see that there's very little substance behind it. And I think you're right.

You know, when when someone's got a robust business with a good proposition, with a good offer, that solves a problem. So they can serve a community, that you can make it.

You can have a very profitable business rather than an ego getting get in the way of just wanting hundreds of thousands of followers, because that's the measure of success when actually behind that is very little profit to be had.

So one of the reasons I was particularly keen to have you on the podcast. I mean, obviously we've met and I haven't actually had any time to spend specifically with you to really get to know you. So that's obviously going on in the background. But I also follow you on social media, and there are a few people I turn to and I look at them when I go while they're really doing a great job. What I love about your social media content is that it isn't one dimensional.

Something you said earlier is about sort of being balanced across your business life, your relationships, your your health and wellness. And you bring all those to your game on social media, which is really, really impressive. Not many people do that. Well, I appreciate that.

And it's interesting to hear it from a different perspective, because when you're in it like I am, I'm like, am I just talking about loads of different things?

Is it is it is it, you know, useful? Because, you know, because I did talk about these four key areas, you know, the business I'm talking about scaling and how to build a business, how to lead a business. And I'm talking about body and health and now talk about relationships. And I'm talking about, you know, some of the mindset challenges we have. So.

So, yeah, it's it's good to hear that because, you know, like all of us are doing this type of work, you wonder, am I getting the balance right? You know, am I am I speaking to one audience when I'm losing this audience over here? Because, you know, one minute I'm talking about kettlebell training and the benefits of using the kettlebell on the next down, talking about, you know, leadership.

But I think once you get to know your avatar. And and that's the key thing, isn't it, when you kind of niche and you find who your audience is, you kind of your avatar is someone who is for me, you know, is someone who is running a business, who wants to stay fit and healthy, doesn't have very much time. So let's talk about the kettlebell, because you have one at home and you can do in 10 minutes.

And, you know, let's talk about relationships and some of the challenges that we faces as parents and partners to manage that side of life and as well as a business.


So I suppose over time, with a bit of bravery, it it started to resonate with people.

And and it's also the bravery around speaking directly to that person and not worrying what what other people might think of my content, because it's not relevant for them.

And I experienced that a little bit this year with with LinkedIn because I went live every day for 100 days on on LinkedIn while and when I was very sick.

You know, I think that was pithy, you know, and direct and talk really talk to my avatar. And I noticed there was this different group of people actually that were starting to show up on the live show every day.

And I found myself starting to flex my content, thinking that's what they wanted. Right. Cause I made an assumption that that they were joining in.

And there are different profiles. What I was used to and what I forgot in my mind was that the reason why they were coming in is because they liked the stuff I was taking initially. Right. I hope I'm making sense. Yeah, but it's very easy when you start to see it as other audience sort of emerge that make an assumption that we're saying, oh, maybe I need to flex a little bit for them.

And I actually noticed it could have been in my head a little bit, but I noticed a bit of a drop off like I was losing some of the other people that actually were my avatar.

So that was an interesting kind of sort of shift, if you like, and sort of just a recognition and the importance of knowing who your audience is and being all in on that audience. And if other people come into that into your ecosystem, if you like, they're coming because they like the content.

Right. And not to make assumptions about what what they might want and changing it.

So I'm impressed with, you know, people that are able to do that and be all in on on their audience. And that's still still a lesson. Still something to catch myself doing.

Yeah, I think there's always improvement to be made, but I think it does take a lot of people make what you haven't made is thinking that you need to be all one thing. You need to be there's a gif and my head sort of maximum business. Right. Because nobody is there and people don't connect to that. And I think one of the things my clients often worry about in the beginning is that they're the hyperfocus on every single post. Thinking that there's one post is going to be the one that does everything.

But actually, it's the tapestry of these posts create over time as individual stitches to cause to create the impression. And I think that's what I like about your content, is there's lots of different color and texture in the stitches of your content, which go to create a really clear picture of who you are and what you're about and who you're for. And clearly everything you express to put your avatar. There's a lot of tick boxes on my list here.

So that's why it's working.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There you go. And that's that's great to hear. Appreciate it, Bob. Thanks.

But I imagine it wasn't always easy, so I'm quite keen to look at. Okay. Well, this is where you are now. But how did you get to this point where you are confident with all this content? I mean, I know you come from a sales background and leadership training background, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're happy putting a camera in front of your face or expressing personal things, either a written or picture or a video.

So as far as your content journey, like, you know, that's a that's a really good question to reflect on.

I I suppose, you know, if I if I go back to sort of started to put content out there, you know, you start with blogging like everybody does. You start blogging and then you hear of this. You know, there's people blogging. And I think, oh, probably should get on camera at some point to start doing that.

But right now, I mean, my conversations, I just keep posting, keep keep blogging and turning up. And I was I found that what worked for me was if I could turn up to a networking event and get a speaking opportunity, that that would generate leads and usually convert to business. Well, clearly, this year there are no speaking gigs.

So even my keynote, you know, paid gigs have all been cancelled. So says Bindert. So the only opportunity really has been to to get online and actually start to really take that seriously. So whilst I I've got online programs, I create one couple of years ago, I would say that that's probably been the hardest thing for me to do. You know, I always say to people, look, if if I was at a conference as an or an audio.

Member. Let's say it was the you know, you pronounce summit, right? And and Chris turned to me and said, hey, Andrew, one of our speakers has dropped out. I just wondered if you want to jump on the stage and do something.

Yeah, no, I'd love that.

Right. And you put that, you know, as soon as she put that camera in front of me and that red light goes on. I don't know what I'm going to say next. Like, I just I mean, I've got over it now. And I think doing live has helped with that because there's a well, there's a bit of structure. There's a little bit improvisation as well.

And I do a Q&A, so I don't know what questions are going to come. So that's helped flex the muscle around that. So I suppose I'm more natural now jumping on an Instagram story or doing something like that.

But I would say to you two to three years ago, I mean, it was so many times when I turn that camera on, looked at it and thought that.

Now I think we'll do to tomorrow. Let's let's leave it for another day. I actually ended up having to book somebody to fill me in. I've done it like Abers. I don't know Rob Balazs Abbas. I do.

Yes. Well, he's coming out of podcast. Is he a week's time? Yeah. He's such a great guy. Such a grand speaking tomorrow, actually.

But he's a good friend of his. As I say, I know him if he's listening. We hadn't ever met. We have never spoken. We have commented on each other's posts. That's as far as that's concerned. I don't know. But I will soon.

Yeah, well, I engaged with him actually for a while as my mentor and in the early days.

And he would say to me, just just get the camera. You know, you've got life linked in life. Just jump on just five minutes a day.

And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. And the accountability was going out the window.

So so what I ended up doing was just booking someone, which was quite an investment. But I knew that if I booked someone with the camera and the lights there, I had to do it. So I started doing that as a kind of starting point. And as I start to get more comfortable putting a content out, get some feedback, I've just found now that I can I've sort of developed the muscle.

So it's a message to anybody, anything really that, you know, get some of our comfort zone eventually starts to become comfortable. You know, there's still that little bit of fear, but the fear is more enjoyable rather than concerned about what people will think or if I say something stupid or whatever.

Yeah, I think that comfort zones are elastic. And I think you need to stretch them. But once you stretch them like elastic, once it's warmed up, it's actually much more flexible than you thought it was. Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I use the analogy, my book actually. Yeah. The last line, if you hold it for stretch for a period of time, it's bigger when you let it go back to its comfort zone. So that's that's like us as human beings, we can go back to our comfort zone, but usually better than we were before.

So where are you finding your challenge now? Because obviously, you know, somebody who just sits around, they can hear this is easy. No, I can relax. Where are you finding your challenge at the moment?

Well, it's been a few challenges. I mean, again, I once had a challenge this year because of what's happened. But, you know, the majority of our work is face to face leadership programs. And, you know, that's just another business.

But that from a revenue perspective, you know, that that's a big part of my job. It's kind of my entrepreneurial side, if you like.

I've got I've scaled that and I've got people delivering those programs.

But this year, we just it's just been wiped out. So that that's been a challenge. And also, you know. Sort of knowing that we're quite vulnerable in that in that respect and to kind of think about how we can mitigate the risk of that, those sort of things happening in the future.

But the challenge right now.

It's a good question, I and I find it quite hard to to answer because we're in such a strange time reinventing, you know, reinventing and, you know, pits.

I would say probably the biggest challenge is.

You know, I still think I kept the imposter syndrome, you know, so more of a mindset challenge than a a physical problem, you know, around sales. Yes. You know, I've got a workshop and we we've got to get bums on seats. It's an online program. So there's a challenge around getting people into our sales funnel and get them on a phone call and, you know, talk them through the program, see if it's the right fit for them.

And and then hopefully them signing up. You know, that's a challenge in itself. But that's business. Right. But I think we all have that same challenge of.

Well, I feel it. Will I be able to do it?

You know, we'll people will enjoy it in all of those those kind of that inner voice that we all experience. And again, you know, I started life really when I moved into performance coaching as a sports psychologist. I was working with athletes as well. I still do work with athletes.

And that that voice is real. And it's just like and what I've learned, I suppose, over time is to to make sense of that voice, to try and see it as an ally rather than a villain, if you like.

Yeah. And so I it's it's still a challenge.

But I but I, I'm much quicker at being able to to turn things around and get refocused and and have that kind of positive view on things.

So one thing you mentioned earlier on was your book and you've sort of reference to four keys several times. Well, I haven't really nibbled into what that is at all. So I be quite keen for you to maybe explain in terms of burnout. What are the four keys? Tell me about the four keys. Well, I think how they come about and then and kind of how it started. So short short version is burnout is something that we've witnessed I've witnessed in my family.

So my father had a a good business. I come from a family of bakers. I was always be a baker. There's no doubt in my mind that I'd be a baker into my dad sold the business and he moved into construction. It was the eighties, as he did very well, built big houses. We lived in south east of England, Tommy Wells, so big houses in real time as wells, as we like to refer to it.

And my dad did very well. You know, we had very nice lifestyle.

But as quickly as he made his money, there was a crash in the 91 crash and he never really recovered from any.

Probably I'd let myself go a little bit and enjoyed the good life, you know, with the nice holidays, the rich dinners, you know, and all of that stuff. My dad was very he enjoyed that. And in 93, my dad said good night to me, ask me for a hug.

I declined, actually asked me three times. I was 16 at the time and he went off to bed now. Last time I saw. And he died of a heart attack aged 48. So.

So it's always been on my mind this this idea of being a business owner and entrepreneurism and how the effects it can have on the family, the health.

So I decided that I, I decide to be a business psychologist that point.

But I certainly decided I would go all in on my my hockey career and on life and live it sort of full and not do something that I didn't truly understand just to make money and die, which I think and sadly a lot people do.

So I spent 20 years with this on my mind. I actually worked at Yellow Pages for four years as a field sales consultant, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

That's an induction and a half. Exactly.

It was a I mean, I was selling induction into planning and and managing a day and and productivity. But the connection I made with a lot of these business owners, you know, I was dealing with bricklayers, plumbers, electricians, to some big businesses as well. And as I moved up the business, I got bigger accounts, but I would work with them for four years. We had that kind of continuity and sometimes you'd see this decline. I could see the brightest empathy for these business owners is natural empathy and probably because of my experience with my dad.

And so I really always felt like I wanted to be some sort of consultant rather than someone who's selling advertising, you know?

So that's kind of what I got this opportunity to be a performance coach which joined Blue Sky Performance Improvement. And and that's kind of where my career shifted.

By 2012, I'd. Well, actually, 2015 by this point, I'd written my first book, Managing the Mist. I was married with two children, Maya, my oldest daughter as well. From previous relationship, who now is 21.

So my wife was her stepmom. I was all in on the business growing the business.

I lost my business. 2012, I was travelling to the Middle East. America too. I was the head coach for Team GB for inline hockey. And so I did that for four years. We won a gold medal and I was, you know, just all in on all of that.

And, you know, I was like, look, it's my family said they must be so proud of me because I'm doing all these amazing things.

But in reality, I was I was putting more effort into the Jeab locker room than I was my own family. And I was pretty more offensive to my clients than I probably was my, you know, my relationship. And the long and short of it was, you know, ladies conversations, again, is kind of insidious.

You know, how it happened that my wife just turned around one day and said I didn't sign up for this. And in 2017, we separated and were just blindsided me.

I was like, well, hang on, wait, what are you leaving? We've been having this conversation two years. You know, you've just not been listening.

And and I was just so surprised that I kind of followed a similar pattern to my dad, really, although I wasn't drinking or anything like that. I, I was actually I was suffering with gout and my family joke about it. Because I might. My dad was tough. Like, he didn't complain about anything, anything he complained about when he got gout. And they joke about how the fact he didn't leave us any anything. You know, but you left Andrew out because it's something hereditary does.

And it does.

And I realize it just the more stressed I got in, I thought about diet and food and all these kind of things. But actually, it was just from stress and burnout and the inflammation in the body, which can lead to disease and so on. So that put me on a journey of kind of discovering nutrition and understanding nutrition.

And then coincide that with the relationship and so on. And I start talking to other business owners, you know, quite openly. And I said, hey, you know, this has happened. My wife left me, you know. And, you know, I know I'm a sportsman. I talk about leadership and how to create locker room spirit and all these kind of things. But my health is bad. Like I can even get in the gym, you know.

It was the most days where I can even put my feet down. I could get out of bed. I could, but I can put my feet on the floor not to phone clients up and say, look, I'm sorry, I'm just going to get a flu or something. I made something up. But, you know, it was embarrassing itself.

So I did want to say I'd got this inflammatory arthritis and gout and so on. So I realized something had to change.

And as I started to share it with other business owners, you know, as people were saying, yeah, this is really resonate with me. You know, my relationship is tough for, you know, I'm worried I'm not going to, you know, see my kids grow up because my I've just let my health go, you know, lost three years, been all in on a business. And what happened is through these conversations, I put a group of people together, about six business owners.

There was it was just a free sort of peer mentoring group, a mastermind, if you like.

And so I facilitated it, but it was all online and WhatsApp. And I just said, hey, look, let's me every morning at five a.m., right.

We'll wake up. Well, everyone they were up will try this meditation thing, you know, try and do the stuff that other people seem to be doing and it's helping them get some clarity. So we tried that. And because it was not fun, because, you know, people say, no, I meditate. I just fell asleep after five minutes or, you know, I mean to say. But I ended up worrying about my to do list or not.

So we just kind of playing with this thing and we got bit more mindfulness. And I saw Mark Divine, who an ex Navy SEAL took about box breathing. So introduce that so I don't box breathing in the morning.

We said we do a hip session everyday, you know, ten minutes we're not going to cross box and doing like an hour in the gym or like that. Just ten minutes, get a walk in and do something nice for our partner. So this time I was separate my wife and but I said, let's just put the kids at the center of it. Let's try and be a team around the kids as crept right environment for the kids. And I would just keep trying to do these.

I'd read books like The Love Languages and all this kind of stuff and acts of service and words of appreciation, which I understood with my my wife's motivations for getting into this territory that I'd never been in. I mean, this is this is all like woo woo stuff, right? I was a psychologist. You know, you just get processes in place, get some metrics in place, hit the numbers, you know, build good client relationships.

And now I'm bringing this whole thing together into kind of one salient thing. And and that's how the four keys was born. It's like, all right, we're going to do something in our business. Some can of body. You can do some relationships. We do some can I mindset.

I'm going to do it daily. And we create visions with vision boards.

And we did 90 day game plans and then looking at how we can win daily structure all day. And the guys which are it's like this is just amazing. You know, you've got to do some you know, write a book or something about this or so.

All the stuff that we talked about, the case studies, all in the book. And I talk about that group and how is born. And as part of my 90 day game plan, it was actually my year vision. I talked about how I wanted to get fitter and healthier, reduce inflammation. My body's like, that was a goal.

I'd I've talked about how I'd imagined as deludes it seemed at the time because I was like related with right off that we would have an apartment in Prague and we would, you know, be a happy family one day. And, you know, and if you ask my wife now, she's like, there's just no chance that happening. Right. That moment had gone right. And I had some goals with the business.

I wanted an online business. I wanted to write book.

I wanted to kind of scale the business.

And somehow these things just started to happen, you know, through doing this stuff daily. And it was just it was just an incredible experience. So by so that was tough. End of 2017, 2019. January 9th, I published the Four Keys.

And in on December twenty ninth, my wife and I and two children move to Prague. And we are probably happier than we've ever been in our life, you know.

So it's the emotional bank account was definitely in it in deficit over this time of being patient. And that's a big part of this program. It's you know, it's been patient, been patient with.

People around us and so on. I think that's a great story and I think it's a prime example of the compound effect over time. A lot of the time we try little things here and there. We push buttons and see what happens. But it's consistently showing up in the right places over time. Make any efforts in the right places over a period of time that they start to really have an effect.

So, yeah, you're playing the long game.

The compound effect is real like that. You know, when we first doing it, we were like, this is gonna be amazing.

If we do if we do for 90 day game plans a year, we are at it again. We are going to, like, blow it out. You know, I mean, it can be incredible, but actually it's impossible.

And that's the point about comfort and stretch. You know, you stretch yourself for 90 days. Go back to your comfort zone and you better, faster, fitter, healthier, related to stronger, et cetera. Businesses got a better pipeline or this kind of stuff. But actually, what we found is that we could just do one or two a year. And if we did one in January, for example, some really aggressive action for 90 days, then we would experience that compound effect for the following nine months.

I think it's something that something Daniel Priestley often talks about is having a campaign led business that you need to run several campaigns through the year. And the 90 day plan within the business context sounds brilliant as all these other contexts as well. Yeah, I mean, I think I read your book. He looked really good.

Yeah, well, I mean, that was the thing. I think once we realized that it wasn't just a 90 day target for the business, it was a 90 day target for our health and a 90 day target for our relationships and a 90 day target for our mindset. Now, we kind of got this thing in balance. So we I talk about devoting equal time, really. It's it's devoting equal attention. You know, it's not like splitting your day into quarters and saying, right, I've done my business bit.

Now I'm pulling on a family. But what I have found is that I seem to be working less hours, you know, than I was before. For sure. I mean, I've seen this, but last year, you know, when it was, you know, said that whilst I think the four hour work week is it is a bit ambitious, I get what Tim Ferriss is talking about, about this kind of outsourcing and scaling a business that way.

But I do believe there's a there's an opportunity for the solo opener, for the, you know, the business owner who is crying it what they might refer to as a lifestyle business, but actually a very robust business.

I think you can. I think you can generally do these things in less time. And there was more time. You have to put more hours in, you know, bits. But I think the opportunities there for for a different type of lifestyle now. And I really hope that this moment in time, as is, encourage people to think that way.

Well, I hope it has. And I hope anybody listening. Well, maybe sort of look at what they're doing and thinking, well, have I got things in balance? Have I. Are there balls? I'm regularly dropping and maybe have a bit of a think of a way that might be. And I think many of the answers will be found in his four keys. I think it's a very elegant way of bringing everything together. It's it's obviously a synergy of lots of different things that are out there.

But a lot of. But everything is. And you've put that into a framework that's very easy to understand. And that's actually the hardest thing.

It's it's not been easy, actually, to kind of shape it into what it is now, but it's evolved. And I think any business owner out there that's got a product, you know, to get it out there, you know, we I put it out there, put a mastermind together and thought there's something in this.

And and it's shaped and evolved. And I got feedback and like this don't like that, you know? And I think that it was a lesson in shipping your product, you know, using a Seth Godin analogy, you know, just get it out there and ship and then and then make sure you're giving yourself a chance to get some feedback. And I'm sure it will evolve even further.

So if people want to take things further with you, how can how would you like them to connect with you?

I would I would head over to the Web site. Andrew Sellitto dot com. Because on there you'll find the podcast. You'll find interviews that I've had. So like with Seth Godin, for example. And I got him to talk about stress and he gives a very, very nice definition of what he believes stresses.

So I it's just a place it's full of content. So whether it's blogs, podcasts, live shows, it's it's all there.

So Andrew set its own aside double l ITV dot com. And I would say that's the best place to go.

And you will find a link in the show notes. So just click on your player, click show notes. You'll find a link there. Click. It is a very, very vibrant, rich Web site full of great content. And I don't see that very often because many aren't as genuinely as. Thank you, Bob. So, Andrew, one question I try and ask everybody. Towards the end of the interview is what's one thing you do now that you wish you?

Started five years ago. It would have to be. I could look it in four different ways. But from a business perspective, it would have to be just getting on. Getting on the video. I mean, I had so much content, but then I had a book. The opportunity was right in front of me. And I could have been way ahead of the game if I'd perhaps believed in myself a bit more or believed in the idea.

So, yeah, I definitely got a head start on that.

So this is a very fresh answer for me because, well, it's pertinent for me right now. I'm making my first steps into video and I'm curious to know why you've given us. The answer, obviously is very fulfilling doing video. It's a big threshold to cross. So I'm curious to know what impact building muscle has had. Well, I think it's still still evolving for me.

And actually the strategic side of it, you know, so we're making sure that there is a content strategy in place. And perhaps that's what I didn't have. I just thought it was. And maybe that's why I did buy into it. Maybe that's what you're reading into, though, being a results orientated person. I just thought, why would I put video out? You know, I'm much better off having three meetings a day in London and and closing some deals, you know, that that's rather than kind of having to do a video, edit a video or someone edit, you know.

So I probably didn't see the value in it, whereas now I would probably experience more of that compound effect. So if I if I'd started started sooner and put some metrics around it.

So I'm quite excited about the next phase in that for me, because, you know, I blinked and is is my main playing ground and I've been putting video out, but I've never really had a strategy. So now I'm thinking, right. I've got a strategy for putting content out and I can measure it and I can see which ones work and which ones don't. And I can see how this how I'm getting people into my into a funnel and leading them to to a an offer.

So I suppose what you're hearing is that if I didn't see the value five years ago, whereas I see the value now in hindsight and if I had the right strategy and right metrics around it. No, that makes a lot of sense. And again, I resonate with a lot of a hundred who've been a fantastic guest. I'm so grateful for your time. Can't you even a fantastic host. You're the best kassner. Thanks for your time. I can't wait to meet you again.

Yeah, likewise, Bob. It's been a pleasure. When I say the phrase scaling a business, there are all kinds of cliches which bring to mind. Yes. We need to work hard, but we don't have to do that and sacrifice everything else. It's not all about self care either. Maybe it's about balancing the challenges across all four keys and growing ourselves as well as our business. Before I go, just a quick reminder to subscribe. And if you haven't, then join our Facebook group.

You'll find a link in the show, notes or visit, amplify me dot ffm forward slash insiders. I would love for you to connect with me on social media. You'll find me wherever you hang out. Just search at Bob Gentle. If you do, then message me. Let me know and I can follow you back. If you enjoyed the show, then I would love for you to review it. Whichever player you're using, whether it's I choose Stitcher, Google podcasts, whichever player you're using.

If you can drop a review on there, it helps that player understand. This is a podcast that matters to you and it really helps me a lot. My name's Paul Gentle. Thanks again to Andrew for giving us his time this week and to you for listening. I'll see you next week.