Establishing yourself in the mind of a prospective client is hard enough. Controlling it is quite another. If branding is ‘what people say about you when you’re not in the room’ then you can leave that to chance or you can shape that conversation.
Branding takes lots of forms and is influenced by a lot more than a logo.
This week on the podcast I’m exploring what it takes to build a brand which really cuts through with superstar branding consultant / savant, Alyssa Houseknecht.
Alyssa's website : https://lysshouse.com/
Please note : This is an automatically generated transcription. There are typos and the system may pick words or whole phrases up incorrectly.
Hi there. And welcome back to Amplify The Personal Brand Entrepreneur Podcast. I'm Bob Gentle and every Monday I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work. If you're new, then take a second to subscribe through your player app. And while you're listening, join our Facebook community. Just visit Amplifying Me FM Insiders and you'll be taken right there. Hi there. I'm welcome back to Amplify The Personal Brand Entrepreneurial. My name is Bob Gentle and every week I'm joined by amazing people who share what makes their business work.
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Just remember, after nearly 200 interviews, I've learned a thing or two and it turns out success leaves a trail and I want to give that map to you. So head over to Amplify Me Agency Forward Roadmap and grab your copy of my brand new personal Brand business. Blueprint everything you need to start scale or just fix your expert business. It's yours for free as a gift from me. So let's get into the show this week. I'm delighted to welcome Lisa House next from Les House to the show.
For those who don't know you, why don't you take a second just to let us know who you are, where you are and the kind of work you do?
Well, Hello. Thank you so much for having me Bob, I am so excited to chat with you. I am a brand strategist and I come with a design background, so I really work with entrepreneurs and thought leaders to build personal brands that are not only sustainable, we build them to last, but they also look really great. And through that visual medium attract the right audience. I am currently in Sarasota, Florida in the US and I am living nomadically though, so if you want to follow me on Instagram, you can cheque out where my next travel will be soon.
I am so jealous of anybody who lives in Florida is literally one of my favourite places. When I get off an aeroplane in Florida, I just want to fall in. Cry is just so cosy and warm and humid. It's just how I like it now for the listener. I have just moved House. I've moved from a little cliff top fishing village to the middle of a big city. You're going to get all kinds of new background noises and I really can't predict what's going to happen. You will have music in the background.
Occasionally you will have police cars and ambulances at least once every show. And I think right now I have a recycling truck outside. Perfect ones. I'm not going to apologise for background noise. I'm not even going to attempt to fix it. It's just going to be part of the colour of the personal brand entrepreneur shows. You can join me on an adventure of sound now, Alyssa, pardon my little deviation into the background noise, but you're nomadic. I work in a fixed location and that fixed locations just changed.
And this kind of is really interesting from a branding perspective, because where we are, if we're using it properly, is such a great branding device. And I'm having a bit of a stretch. I'm trying to integrate my background noise into the conversation about personal branding, but there's so much goes into brand that people don't think about. And one of the things that sort of rummaging around your website you talk about a lot is a confident brand. So this is why I think it's important for me not to shy away from.
This is the reality of who I am aware. I try to be confident in my personal brand, but what does confidence mean in terms of personal branding in your world, in the way you approach personal branding and branding in general?
I just want to say that I absolutely love that approach. You inspired me just now in that I think, you know, to talk about a confident brand means that we have a deep, inner, peaceful knowing. That's the definition of confidence, right? A security. I really view it as a security and authenticity. And that was just such a beautiful example of how you just showed up as yourself as your own confident brand. That, hey, this is where I am. This is my life. And that is really where we're seeing a shift in the personal brand space is we are able to be confident in ourselves.
And I think social media has allowed us to do that. Although it can be sometimes intimidating and maybe overwhelming, social media has allowed us to really open up our lives and show people what it means to be us, to be us as an individual. So that's really the foundation of building a confident brand is knowing who you are, what you do, what you stand for you, whether that's in your business or just as a person, and then being able to open yourself up and share that with the world.
When people approach you, I think people have different expectations of what their brand should be. And I think there's a sliding spectrum of people who maybe go from the very experienced with a profound appreciation of what authenticity truly means. And then you have another end of the spectrum of the people who are fairly new to showing up, and they try and control everything, and they try and engineer their personal brand to be something that it truly isn't. This is what you might call fake authentic confidence. I guess it's getting the balance of how I want to come across and being at peace with who I actually am.
But there's a lot of people aren't there. So how do you help people move from a place of insecurity about personal brand or brand in general to a place of being secure enough to be authentic and a true sense? Not in a fake sense.
I love the way that you just said that I'm going to steal that from you from now on, but that's such a great question. And, you know, I think that I can really speak to this because I've been there and it is still a daily I don't want to say challenge, but practise for me. So I really do teach this and speak on this from experience. I'll go on a little side. Now. I listen to one of your recent episodes about building a personal brand as an introvert, and I probably fall in between the introvert and extrovert spectrum.
But I just found that so interesting how it can be so challenging for us to show up online. Even we're so inundated with so much on social media that sometimes when we just feel like I don't always want to share so much of my personal life with the world. Right? So it's about finding that balance. And I think the thing that I continually remind my clients, especially as we're starting out this process, it can feel overwhelming, maybe scary or even fake. I have some clients who feel a little bit fearful that this feels very vain.
You know, I don't want to have a photo shoot of myself. I don't want to post photos of myself and videos all the time, and that's totally understandable. But I always bring them back to their intentions. And I go back to the root of their business of what they're doing, why they're doing it, and who they're there to serve. And we remember. I remind them that it's all about your intention. Are you showing up to say, hey, look at me, look at how great I am now.
Of course, there are sometimes that we should celebrate ourselves, and that's okay. But if we are actually putting ourselves out into the world to provide value for others, I think that's where the difference lies. And often when I remind my clients of who are your clients that you're looking to serve, they remember that this is why they're here, and this is what they're doing this all for.
I think something that struck me when you were speaking there was the word vanity. And I think a lot of people can falsely assume that trying to be visible is vain. What I find is actually the case more often is, well, maybe it's a different way of putting it. If I were to ask myself, what does my business need for me to do today? Who does my business need me to be my business needs me to show up in the world in order to serve my customers, to serve my audience, where vanity, I think, comes in.
And this is what really helped me move forward in my own visibility, because I am a naturally painfully shy person. I had to desensitise myself to an awful lot of that in order to be able to do it semi confidently. But what I came to realise was that actually it was my insecurity that was vanity. I was so worried about how I was coming across that it was paralysing, and I had to really understand that it was my vanity that was preventing me from showing up rather than vanity, that was trying to push me to show up.
I think a lot of people don't appreciate potentially that is vanity that's blocking them from showing up rather than sort of rather than the other way around. Which is, I think, what you would more instinctively think, wow, wow.
This is like a therapy session. I mean, it's 100% true, because really, if we if we do look at vanity and even take it a step further to insecurity, which again, I am walking this out. I speak from experience that the root of insecurity is actually vanity and selfishness, right. Because we're so inwardly focused on ourselves. So I think that is just such a beautiful point that, hey, we can we can relieve and alleviate some of this pressure that we on ourselves and take it back to that root root cause like you mentioned.
Yeah, I think you're right. I think there is a scale between vanity self centeredness and insecurity, but I think a lot of the time the insecurity isn't about what what other people. It's more of an US problem than the problem.
I think coming back to this question of what does my business need of me today? My business needs me to show up in other people's lives in order that we can create that connection that leads to a value exchange. And this is really where the brand comes in. So how do you help people to find that brand identity that is aligned with not only who they are, how they've been, who they want to be? Because we're all growing into our businesses, essentially, how do you help people through the process of deciding who they want to show up us and then sort of doing the window dressing around it?
Well, I will always say if you hear me speak anywhere. I always, always preach that we must start building a brand with strategy. Until we have a true, clear picture of those questions. You just ask who we are, what we do, who we serve, who are we longing to be? Who are we dreaming of serving? What are our dreams and goals for our lives and our business? That all has to start in a strategy place we do not. Like I said at the beginning, of the call.
I work in a lot of visual mediums and help build visual brands online, but we don't design anything. We don't pick a colour, we don't design a logo. We don't work on a website until we really have that foundation of strategy. And I know that it can be super fun. Those are the fun pieces, right? All the visual side of things that is really exciting to see your brand come to life in a visual way. Part of why I love doing what I do. But until we have that true foundation, we really can't move forward.
And so with my clients, we do really exhaustive brand strategy where we dive deep into the current business, the current brand. We really create dream client avatars who were serving. Maybe at this point, we really reflect on where are we now, where we wanting to be, and we really try to bridge that gap. And I always want to remind our listeners and our clients that it is the perfect balance of you and your dream client. I often if you can kind of imagine this with me.
I often refer to your brand as a Venn diagram. If you can picture that image of two circles with that space in the middle. So on one side, we have you, your business, your brand. Maybe if you're a product based business, maybe that's your product or your service, that all goes in one side. Then we have on the other side of the circle, you know, dream audience, your clients, those people that you are here to serve, that space in the middle where those two circles me is really the perfect combination of your brand.
And that's what we want to do is we want to find enough of you and enough of your dream client right in that middle. And it does take time to kind of find that balance. But I think again, with the intention or intention set correctly, we can find that balance of this is me. I'm going to be a logically authentic. But I also know that I am here to serve someone. And the reason that someone is attracted to your brand is because they are seeing themselves in you and in your brand.
So we really need to find that perfect balance.
When people think about brand, they instinctively think about the visual collateral, the website, the logo, the colour palette, the font choices. But if we take a step back and look at this whole sort of the standard definition of a brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room, absolutely. None of that's got nothing to do with colour or fonts or photography. It's all to do with the stories to a large extent. Are you getting involved in that?
Absolutely. So really, if we kind of take a step back further, we can break down a brand into your value identity kind of three parts here. So your value identity, which are the things I just mentioned, really, who you are, what you do while you're doing it. We have the visual identity, which is all of the fun, beautiful things we just talked about. And then we have the verbal identity. Right. So oftentimes I'll have my clients work with a professional copywriter to really dig into you're communicating that story.
So in the value identity, we figure out that story. What is our story? How are we going to tell it? How is it going to resonate with our audience? And then we work with a copywriter to really mould and shape and define not only what we're going to say, but how we're going to say it so that it resonates with our audience.
See, I love that because I've never heard of it before. I mean, it might be I don't know if this is an Alyssa thing. The value identity, the verbal identity in the visual identity. I've never heard of split like that before. And it's a really elegant way of building this sort of three dimensional brand.
I do need to give some credit to our friend Mike Kim, because I believe that originated with him, but I've just absolutely loved it and have latched onto it because I do think it helps. Really? Yeah. It helps us, as personal brands understand in a really clear way, something that isn't always super easy to understand. Right.
Well, I think I'm going to give you some credit as well, the protection to the right people, because it's especially in your industry, it will lead to a better result. I think a lot of people come to branding almost from a purely visual perspective. Occasionally they'll come up with a little bit of value work as well, but it really is often visually led. This leads to a much, much richer brand. When you're working with personal brand in particular, that's really important because it really going back to the historical what is a brand?
A brand is the banner behind which we're all going to stand and potentially die for. And when we're looking at personal branding, this is what we stand for in a very real way. You look at corporate brands is not the same. You get a very large number of people, and this is their common denominator. This is much more elegant. I really like that. So when you say you work with personal brand businesses, you know, when you work with clients and you get an instinctive, oh, my God.
I'm really looking forward to working with them. Or how do you make that distinction? What's for you and what's? Oh, my God. This is my dream.
And that's such a great question. Well, I think first of all, I absolutely love working with people. Personal brands, companies, personal brands. They define themselves as a brand who are really open and ready and excited that they may know there are some gaps, I guess, in a better way to say, maybe they're teachable and they know that, you know, they're confident in what they do, right? They're probably successful at what they're already doing. They have some confidence in what they in their services or how they serve their clients.
But they do realise that there is a gap between where they are and where they want to be, so that can be in their own personal lives or even just, hey, I really have the deep passion to serve either this new kind of audience or even just to reach more people. So being able to recognise that gap, I think, is really just great quality that shows me that a business owner or an entrepreneur is ready to kind of dive in. I would also say, you know, I think to your point, we just talked about a minute ago with visual, aesthetic and identity.
It often is a red flag when someone just kind of comes to me and says, I need a logo. I need a logo right now, which I love and appreciate. And of course, we dig in deeper and understand where that's coming from, because often we don't know all of these pieces behind the scenes. We don't know what we don't know. Right? So often there is sometimes a level of education that has to come in. If you are speaking to a brand strategist or a designer and we'll have a conversation and say, okay, this is awesome.
We can definitely build you a visual brand identity, but we need to lay this foundation and do the work beforehand. And, you know, sometimes there are people who do you have some pushback and may say, I don't want any of that, you know, whether it's a price issue that they say I just want to pay for the logo. I used to kind of cave to that when I was starting out. I used to say, okay, I'm a good designer. I can create something aesthetically nice for you that you'll be happy with at the end of the day.
But I realised that I wasn't serving those people as best as I knew deep down that I could be, and it was actually probably going to cost them more money in the long run because they were paying me without any strategy work. And then they probably would have to go through this process again, either with me or someone else in a short term. So that's often a red flag, if we're kind of just jumping the gun, that we really don't care about the strategy, that to me, just isn't probably the right client that I want to work with.
And I would also encourage our listeners, if, no matter where you are in your business, whether you're just starting out or you're ready to maybe rebrand, as we call it, working with a designer, working with a brand strategist should be a two way street. And I really believe that your designer should be implementing strategy. You don't have to or work with a designated brand strategist, I definitely recommend it. But your designer should be digging deeper and asking deeper questions rather than what colours do you want to use in your logo?
Right. So I think that that's just important to remember that you also have the opportunity as a personal brand, as an entrepreneur, to find the right designer that's going to ask you the right questions to help actually create the results that you want.
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Now all you have to do is figure out how you want to spend those spare 5 hours. Yeah, I think a lot of people there's the whole question of value. If you want to save money, you can absolutely do that. And you can go and buy a logo. You can use a local graphic designer who won't ask any questions. They'll give you five logos, you pick one with maybe a couple of revisions.
That could work for you, but you are ruling the dice because it might work very badly for you as well.
Or you can go the other direction and you can invest appropriately. And I think there's a question of appropriateness as well, because if you're a brand new business, spending thousands of dollars on strategy might not be the best use of your money today. But if you're a moderately established business, it probably isn't right for you to go to five and get your next logo. I think having worked in that industry myself, a lot of designers will simply take you where you are. If you ask for a cheap logo, you'll get a cheap logo, you won't get much pushback.
Whereas if you say I want a big branding strategy, the language that your designer uses to respond to that will tell you whether they're capable of it or not. Because designers and brands strategists are not the same thing. Somebody can be amazing at driving Adobe Illustrator, but they maybe don't understand the strategy behind what they're actually creating. So what are some questions that a potential client should ask if they are looking for strategic support from a designer? What are some questions that they could ask in order to sort of have a little divining Rod and understand?
Yet this person is capable of helping me. This person is not that's a great question.
I think, you know, just taking things a little bit deeper than just the visual side of things would be the first kind of entry point, right? If they're asking about your current business. Sometimes this can be uncomfortable for some people. As entrepreneurs, it can be a little scary or awkward to maybe share even your income or our business numbers. But I actually on my inquiry form, ask my clients, where are you at? We have a range, right? That they just cheque a box. Are you in this income to this income per month in monthly revenue?
And then we say, okay, what are your goals? What is your goal? Revenue, even something as simple as that? Of course, there are more questions surrounding that. But really, looking again at where your current business is at and finding the gap of where you want to be. Those are the types of questions that your designer should be asking, rather than surface level questions of what colours, what fonts do you want a flower illustration in it? Right. So digging a layer deeper, defining your core audience. Your designer should be asking, who are we serving?
What and not just, you know, not broad, broad answers or broad questions. They should be digging deeper if you tell them millennials. Okay, well, we need to dig a little bit deeper. Are they female? Are they male or do they live in cities where do they eat? What types of things do they like to do? Really, digging into these client avatars is a great place to start. And then I would also just say, lastly, what is the long term plan? I think a designer should should be asking that of you, you know, not only visually, but what's the plan for this brand?
How do you see it growing? How do you see this visual brand developing with your business? Because that's something that I really firmly believe in. I believe that good design should be long lasting. I almost said timeless because there are examples of brands I really love and believe in timeless, beautiful branding. But, you know, trends change. We adapt with the times. That's totally fine. But you should not be rebranding every year. I really believe in building strong visual brands that last. And of course, we can adapt and change things if we're having shifts in our business.
But those are kind of the foundational questions that maybe you should be asking your designer.
That all makes perfect sense. And I think that's really good advice to anybody that is listening thinking, okay, I'm going to take some action on my branding, though. One thing that you mentioned was numbers that you are asking for transparency around some basic outline financials from your prospect. But you actually are quite transparent about your own pricing on your website. And sometimes I ask about pricing with guests. Sometimes I don't, but you have a right to on your own. So I feel quite comfortable speaking to you about and you're quite straight that it's probably going to be starting at an a grand engagement.
And I'm curious to know why you did that, because most people in your industry, I think it's a police car ambulance. I want most people in your industry would shy away from putting any kind of pricing like that on the website up front. You're a strategic person. I'm curious to know what was the strategy behind that and what's been the result. And it might be that there was an awful lot of strategy. I haven't seen a big result, but I'm curious to know what that looked like.
Great question. Yeah, I'm happy to talk about these sorts of things. So for me, this did come from a strategic place. I will start by saying I do, and this isn't me pitching my services. But just to give you a context of what we do is I have a full design agency where we create all of the visual access we talked about. We start with brand strategy. We build visual brands all the way from, like I said, logos to photography to copywriting and your website, really the all encompassing package.
Those are the services that I offer, and we can break those up into pieces. But I don't allow those pieces to be broken up without strategy, as I mentioned before.
That is the one side of the business. The other side of my business that I have is coaching and consulting. Maybe if you're not quite ready to dive deep into a large project like that, as you actually said a few minutes ago, if you're just starting out, it's probably not best to invest in an expensive visual brand right away. We need some time to figure out where things are at and again, adjusting in those first couple of years. So that's probably not going to be the best time for you to invest in a large brand investment.
But I do work with a lot of starters who are in their first, maybe one to three years of business, and they're kind of figuring out the ropes, right? They've tested things out. They're seeing what works, what doesn't. They're making pivots. They're making changes. Those first three years your business, at least for me, we're really kind of hustle mode, lots of quick adaption, lots of changes figuring out what works and what doesn't. So I really have space for both kind of categories, if you will, of where you may be at in your business.
So I am very forward saying, hey, coaching, consulting, meeting one on one. This is the this is the Avenue for you, definitely more affordable. We work on a monthly basis, and then on my services page, I do say this is where our pricing starts for the agency services. And that was a little bit of a long, roundabout way to get here. But I just kind of wanted to explain. I do have two clear paths that I think are clear in my business. So no matter where you're at, you can kind of see.
Hey, where do I fit in here? But I also sorry.
No, go ahead.
Also, just one last piece of this is as I have grown in my business as I have grown the agency side of my business, I have discovered that as we talked about value previously, I really believe that this is a fair, great price for the value that you're getting, because, again, none of the visual services that I provide come without strategy. So that's what's included in the cost. And it's also at that price point because we need to be working with people who, you know, are are serious and are able to invest in this longer term investment.
I think your pricing is absolutely on point when you take into account everything that's included for that. I have no question around the justification of your pricing. I'm curious to understand what impact actually having that pricing on your website has made. Do you find people are attracted through that or repelled or probably a bit of both? Those people who are purely price driven, they bounce off it. As people who are value driven, do they move forward?
Correct. Sorry, I think. Yes. Sorry, I understand your question there, but yeah, I agree. Or that is the reason that I have that on my site is the people who are serious about understanding. Like I had mentioned previously, if they're teachable, they're open, they realise that maybe there's a gap that they need help filling. If you are just coming and looking for your lowest price, then we're probably not going to be the right person to work with. I 100% believe that if you invest in yourself and your business, your customers and clients will invest in you.
And again, we have to be smart with our investments. Right. We have to figure out what's best for us in our business at that time. But when it is time to do that, taking a bigger step back and looking at value and return on investment over time versus dollars and cents in the moment.
And I think there's also something to be said for investing in someone that has a track record. I mean, you would say that of any investment. And one thing I can confidently say, looking through your portfolio, the listener doesn't have that benefit unless they go and have looked themselves is you have a distinct style that's very now and everything's well done. I know, I know my way around WordPress. Your stuff is all well built, which is, in terms of future proofing, just as important as a classical visual brand.
Well, thank you.
So that I have a question which I guess I used to ask quite often, but I think it's coming back around to be very pertinent for you because it's around how we come across the opportunities in our own business. A lot of people will assume that a lot of personal brand entrepreneurs, for example, all their business comes through Facebook ads and fancy funnels, whereas that is often not the case. And people will assume that people who run creative agencies, they must go to networking event after networking event in order to keep the peace.
Fed work typically comes to us either through advertising, it comes through content marketing, or it comes through referral, or it can come through Proactive outbound sales. And I'm curious of those four, you probably have a bit of a mix, but usually I find there's one that dominates. What would that be for you?
Great question. I mean, honestly, I have to say referral based. That's been the majority of my business, which I am so, so grateful for.
I'm actually not surprised. And I was expecting that to be the answer in maybe a follow up question would be. And this is where I think maybe the listener might get a surprise. I'm rolling the dice, but most people in your industry, those referrals would be very local. It would be from people down the street in their local business community. What does that look like for you?
Yeah. Great question. So as I mentioned, I live nomadically. I don't really have a home base. I have lived in longer chunks of time, longer periods of time in certain areas. But even when I was in one place, I really only had one or two local clients. So I think that that's the really exciting thing about about where we're at in our world now. You know, we're recording this podcast across the pond, and the power of the Internet has been absolutely crazy just in terms of getting to know people in building those relationships.
So of course, it's going to look different for everyone. I really do believe in investing in local businesses and being a part of a local community. So I think that that can be really, really helpful and giving back an amazing way if you are in one location. But for me, it's honestly just been building, building an online network and an online brand and having referrals just from there, your network is able to expand so much larger when you network that way.
I was kind of hoping that this was the answer to give me, because I think it's an important answer. And I think there are a lot of people who are very limited. And I was that guy for a long, long time, very limited in their appreciation of what's actually possible online. That when you come from the traditional networking circuit to give it a name, the idea that you can build your network online sufficiently that it will generate the opportunities at the scale of which you need them in order to build a significant business.
It's a very strange idea for a lot of people, but I think it's important to understand that it's actually not that big of a stretch. It takes a little bit of time, but this is the power of the personal brand online that you cultivate it, you nurture it, you grow it, and over time it grows the relationships built as a result of that and you're in complete control of that. And I'm exactly the same. Three years ago, all my opportunity was within 50 miles of where I was sitting.
Now it is likely to be Louisiana as it is Luan in Switzerland. It could be anywhere.
Absolutely. And I think the important thing to remember is there is just so much room for opportunities. This is a piece that I really am passionate about in a lot of aspects of life and business. But is this mindset component of realising that networking opportunities people. There really is no ceiling, right? There are so many brands and businesses and it's extremely exciting to see how entrepreneurship and even just the innovation of businesses that have come up even during these covet times. There are endless opportunities if you are willing to kind of put your glasses on with with that Philtre in a way out.
And it's not using people. It's not viewing people as a means to an end. But it is motivation to say, I want to have the best. I want to provide the best experience for this client, so that's not only the experience while I work with them, but of course the outcome and they're deliverables. I want this to be the best experience so that they can't help but share my name. Right. That when they have a friend or they have a colleague or appear that they're like man, I've been thinking about getting my website redone.
I need to do that immediately. I want my name to come to their mind again, not in a vanity way, not in a selfish way in a I want to create the best experience possible for them.
And I think that's a great place to bring things to a close, because that should be everyone's a mission, but a lot of the time to bring it back to the beginning. A lot of people are a little bit self centred in their business and forget it's all about the client. And I think we could all do with remembering that a little more often. Also have been an awesome guest. I've really, really enjoyed myself. If people want to move any further with you, if they want to connect with you, how would you like them to do that?
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a really great conversation. Thank you for allowing just transparent conversation. I love it. As I mentioned, really love hanging out on Instagram. That feels like a natural, fun place for me to share my life and my business. So you can feel free to follow me at List house. Send me a DM, I promise. It's always me on the other side of the screen. And I also would love to offer our listeners a free workbook it's on my website.
I'm sure we'll put it in the show notes, but it's less house dot com podcast and you can download my free 15 page workbook if you want to get started on building your confident brand. So it really walks you through the steps that we take together with my clients. I'm kind of giving you an inside look at what that process looks like before we get to that visual side of things. So really starting to build your own confident brand and to bring things to an end.
What is one thing that you wish that you do now that you wish it started five years ago? I tell you, it's so long since I've done a podcast interview to the Lister. Apologies. I've been off for a little bit. I banked a lot of interviews. It's a while since I someone this morning I had an interview and I forgot to ask this question. I have forgot for so long at Lisa was one thing you do now. You wish you started five years ago.
That's such a great question. I really wish when I had started out that I would have started writing down my goals and putting tangible dates and timelines with them. That's something that I'm still working to do as a regular Practise. But when I first started out, I had these dreams, these goals. There was nothing wrong with them, but they didn't have a timeline. I had these kind of dreams in my head of some day. I'll do this someday I'll make that someday I'll get to travel as much as I want.
And I realised one day that my dreams didn't have a timeline. So there wasn't really anything that I was maybe working towards in a tangible sense. It was just some day in my head. So now I really try to be committed to quarterly and even monthly writing down my goals and annually, of course, my goals for the year and three years, five years, whatever that looks like. But putting a really tangible date with those goals and dreams.
I think actually, that's a fantastic answer because I think for a lot of people, goals never really grow much beyond wishes. And there's such a big gap between a wish and an intention. I think, through regularly reminding yourself what your goals are, they can move from simple goals to intentions where there's some will behind them. So yeah, that's a fantastic answer. Thank you at last that you have been a great guest. Thank you so much for your time. I will look forward to hosting you if you ever do visit Scotland, which might be quite soon, hopefully if the pandemic comes to it.
But for now, thank you so much for your time.
Thank you so much.
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